Shadowrun Returns Catch-All

Don't forget the money they had to pay Microsoft for the Shadowrun license. That probably took a nice bite out of their budget.

How about save state system like how emulators do it?

Just snapshot the memory image? It might work depending on the language they used. Trying to snapshot only portions of the memory so the engine itself can keep running would be trickier though. I think that might take just as much dev time to get right as a save anywhere system too. If it were me I'd probably release with a checkpoint system and then patch in save anywhere later on, maybe with the release of the Berlin content.

complexmath wrote:

Go straight combat. You can bring a decker with you.

And honestly, there are only a couple missions where you definitely need a decker and the game tells you beforehand. There are a couple other missions where a decker can be useful, but not necessary. Every other mission a decker is just dead weight since their only unique combat skill is the accuracy hack thing which kind of sucks anyway.

I somehow completely missed the Kickstarter for this, and didn't even know it existed until someone told me about it yesterday. My plan is to download it tonight and play it as soon as I get the chance. Everything I've heard about this game is very promising. I was one of the many who played the table top RPG and was very disappointed at the sham of an FPS they made to carry the name.

This looks like it takes one of the best formulas for translating pen and paper RPGs into video games (the Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Nights model) and uses it to bring one of my favorite settings into the digital realm. Needless to say I'm very exited to sit down to this (hopefully) sometime this weekend.

I'm having a great time with this game so far. It's low budget, but I think they cut corners in the right places, really focusing on making the game and the story the best parts. I may be biased because I love reading so much, but I'm finding I prefer the lack of animations and voice acting.

As for the save system, having at least a save+quit button would be great, but if I had to pick I'd rather have a great game that is occasionally inconvenient as opposed to a mediocre game that is easy to hop out of.

Weird bug where it takes 30 seconds for my guy to fire after clicking.

edit: Unrelated, I just came across a nice little Gibson reference. Funny really, considering how much Gibson hated this IP.

I have spent waaay too much time playing the not generally very good UGC out right now. The biggest problem I've seen (aside from typos, bugginess, and balance issues, which IMO is all kind of par for the course/expected for ugc, especially this early on) is that some of these people making content are seemingly obsessed with having huge maps which, load time wise, the engine just doesn't seem to be optimized to handle well. Beyond which, aesthetically it sucks because the bigger the map, the more the limitations of the tile set becomes apparent because you're repeating tiles way more.

Tombombodil wrote:

I somehow completely missed the Kickstarter for this, and didn't even know it existed until someone told me about it yesterday. My plan is to download it tonight and play it as soon as I get the chance. Everything I've heard about this game is very promising. I was one of the many who played the table top RPG and was very disappointed at the sham of an FPS they made to carry the name.

This looks like it takes one of the best formulas for translating pen and paper RPGs into video games (the Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Nights model) and uses it to bring one of my favorite settings into the digital realm. Needless to say I'm very exited to sit down to this (hopefully) sometime this weekend.

You should be pleasantly surprised if you don't get hung up on the lack of depth to the combat. It's a good translation of a P&P system.

Squee9 wrote:

As for the save system, having at least a save+quit button would be great, but if I had to pick I'd rather have a great game that is occasionally inconvenient as opposed to a mediocre game that is easy to hop out of.

Unfortunately it's inconvenient pretty much all of the time for me. Oh well, perhaps they will improve it.

syndicatedragon wrote:
BNice wrote:

- People have mentioned the save system and it's definitely a problem. Harebrained Schemes did mention that they don't like it either but it's a budget issue. I had to go somewhere during a mission and lost over an hour of gameplay. That was weak.

Wait... 1.8 million and they couldn't have a proper save system!? I... don't know what to say.

I popped in here to see if it was just me that was hating the save system. My main complaint is that I don't see any way to know when my last save was. I've had two instances now where there was a scene transition that I thought might be a save and took a gamble when I had to quit. Oops...time to read through a mountain of text again. I really want to play the game, but I'll have to shut it off at a moment's notice, and that means I'll end up replaying stuff over and over for no good reason.

I think I will put it back on the shelf and hope they add a 'save and quit' option...and maybe flesh out the Decker stuff a bit more

mateofalcone wrote:

[My main complaint is that I don't see any way to know when my last save was.

The only way I knew how was to keep an eye on the top left corner of the screen right after zoning. A bubble will tell you when it auto-saves.

Hm... try hitting the "load" button. It will list all prior saves, and should give you an idea of where you'll start if you quit. It's obviously not ideal, but better than nothing.

muttonchop wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Go straight combat. You can bring a decker with you.

And honestly, there are only a couple missions where you definitely need a decker and the game tells you beforehand. There are a couple other missions where a decker can be useful, but not necessary. Every other mission a decker is just dead weight since their only unique combat skill is the accuracy hack thing which kind of sucks anyway.

I rolled a decker/rigger just because it wasn't really an option in the old 16-bit games. It's honestly not that bad, though a pure decker would be rough.

My copy of SR somehow lost ALL of my save games between last night and today. I played normally, exited at the start of a chapter, fired it back up today, and all of my progress is gone.

WTF?

Edit: After 20 minutes of searching, I figured out a workaround for this. Manually copy your save files from C:\Users\Whatever\AppData\Local\Harebrained Schemes\Shadowrun Returns (adjusting as appropriate) to C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\WhateverYourSteamIDIs\234650\remote, exit Steam, and then restart it.

Nobody at HBS has acknowledged the bug or how to resolve it yet.

Nobody at HBS has acknowledged the bug or how to resolve it yet.

It may be a steam error rather than HBS's fault. All the UGC disappeared from the steam workshop some time between yesterday and the night before.

juv3nal wrote:
Nobody at HBS has acknowledged the bug or how to resolve it yet.

It may be a steam error rather than HBS's fault. All the UGC disappeared from the steam workshop some time between yesterday and the night before.

Could be, but there are reports of similar issues dating back to release; even if it's Steam-related, an official solution would have been nice. That was a troubling few minutes. My saves are now safely in Drive.

Maq wrote:

edit: Unrelated, I just came across a nice little Gibson reference. Funny really, considering how much Gibson hated this IP.

He was asked about Shadowrun on Twitter (I think) recently. He said that there was no animosity, just uninterest.

Really don't think I'm going to bother finishing the campaign. It's got absolutely nothing of what I love about the P&P game. It's like they distilled only the boring bits out of playing Shadowrun and made it into a game. I want all the stuff they left out.

Maq wrote:

Really don't think I'm going to bother finishing the campaign. It's got absolutely nothing of what I love about the P&P game. It's like they distilled only the boring bits out of playing Shadowrun and made it into a game. I want all the stuff they left out.

I've not played the P&P game, but I've enjoyed the campaign as a long-time tabletop roleplayer. It feels like what I might imagine a session around the table consisting of.

What are you missing? I'm curious more as a GM of a few different RPGs.

The cyberware offerings are pretty lean, and there's no way to customize any of your gear. I spent more time creating characters than I ever did playing the P&P game, so their absence was missed quite a bit. The Matrix isn't utilized nearly as much as it could be, but the why of that was disclosed well before the game released. The campaign is good, but not great, and while it touches on a lot of the themes present in Shadowrun, it never really dug into any one. Still, I think it's as good a Shadowrun game as the SNES and Genesis ones were, and I don't regret kicking in at the $60 level at all.

What are you missing? I'm curious more as a GM of a few different RPGs.

On a systems level:
Compared to any pnp, a crpg version is typically missing most of the non-combat stuff and SRR is no exception. In SR:R the only really non-combat (decking = matrix combat) stat is Charisma and the etiquettes you get for reaching certain levels with it.

It would have been nice if they'd been able to implement some kind of stealth stuff. You can see they wanted to because silenced weapons (and all sorts of silencing spells although maybe those are just for locking down mages?) are in although heck if I know if they have any effect in-game as things stand.

But I'm guessing what Maq is more getting at is the degree of linearity. A pnp is about making choices (I mean outside of character creation/customization and in-combat) and having those choices matter, but SRR isn't really about that.

Having said all that, I appreciate SRR (and its campaign) for what it is and still liked it a lot. *shrug*

juv3nal wrote:
What are you missing? I'm curious more as a GM of a few different RPGs.

On a systems level:
Compared to any pnp, a crpg version is typically missing most of the non-combat stuff and SRR is no exception. In SR:R the only really non-combat (decking = matrix combat) stat is Charisma and the etiquettes you get for reaching certain levels with it.

It would have been nice if they'd been able to implement some kind of stealth stuff. You can see they wanted to because silenced weapons (and all sorts of silencing spells although maybe those are just for locking down mages?) are in although heck if I know if they have any effect in-game as things stand.

But I'm guessing what Maq is more getting at is the degree of linearity. A pnp is about making choices (I mean outside of character creation/customization and in-combat) and having those choices matter, but SRR isn't really about that.

Having said all that, I appreciate SRR (and its campaign) for what it is and still liked it a lot. *shrug*

So, that sounds like campaign design stuff, rather than inherent system stuff; I can see those points and agree. I think my bar for cRPGs is pretty low, so it doesn't overtly bother me, but I think community-designed campaigns can address some of the stat-use/choice issues.

So, that sounds like campaign design stuff, rather than inherent system stuff

I'd agree.

A new post just went up on the kickstarter project. If you're a backer, you just got an email where you can read the whole update (which also discusses the upcoming Berlin campaign), but for non-backers, I wanted to quote part of it that mentions the save system.

Harebrained Schemes wrote:

Beyond working on bug fixes, translations, Linux, and finishing the tablet versions of the game, the engineering team has been investigating improvements to our save game functionality. We are aware that there are a number of people who would like the ability to save in the middle of scenes. However, we also know that adding this feature would involve major changes to the core infrastructure of the game. It’s still too early to say whether this is going to be possible, but we wanted to let you know that we’re actively investigating it and will let you know more in the coming weeks.

Has anyone found anything on the Steam Workshop worth downloading? Its only been about a month since release but maybe some savant has put something together already?

polypusher wrote:

Has anyone found anything on the Steam Workshop worth downloading? Its only been about a month since release but maybe some savant has put something together already?

A buddy of mine has downloaded several so far. He reports that all of them have been people building some silly test level (i.e. a box with enemies in it) or are the very start of a campaign (i.e. there will be more to come, but currently only have about 5 minutes of gameplay.)

Some UGC worth checking out:
Lone Star: Double Indemnity isn't complete yet, but it's probably the most impressive one I've seen.

A Lost Lamb is more or less complete (it sets up for a sequel), but less impressive.

Jacked-Up forces you to play as a set character (a Decker) rather than allowing you to import a character or creating your own, so I liked it less for that reason, but it is again more or less complete (ends on an intentional cliffhanger) and probably higher in quality than Lost Lamb.

Oh and if you have any inclination to check out an overambitious buggy mess, Shadowrun Identity - Life on a Limb is...interesting.

I honestly wouldn't expect anything great from the mod community just yet. The tools haven't been out that long, its a bit of a pain to work with, and things are still shaking out.

Might keep an eye on Silver Angel, its being updated as the author works on it. Its an adaption of the First Edition rules adventure of the same name.

Haven't run across anything else, yet, that I'd recommend.

TheHipGamer wrote:
Maq wrote:

Really don't think I'm going to bother finishing the campaign. It's got absolutely nothing of what I love about the P&P game. It's like they distilled only the boring bits out of playing Shadowrun and made it into a game. I want all the stuff they left out.

I've not played the P&P game, but I've enjoyed the campaign as a long-time tabletop roleplayer. It feels like what I might imagine a session around the table consisting of.

What are you missing? I'm curious more as a GM of a few different RPGs.

The main issue is that Shadowrun is, at heart, a heist game. Despite the magic and the guns and the cyberware it's about coming up with a plan, having a large cyberwrench thrown into that plan, and pulling off the caper anyway. There's rarely anything you can solve simply by deploying overwhelming firepower. The PCs are badasses but they're underdogs. They win by being smart.

I'd have liked to have seen far more focus on prepping for missions with sub-missions. Kind of like assassins creed 1. I'd have liked to have seen non combat types have a much greater role. Deckers hacking the environment on the fly. Shamans cribbing intel from the spirit realm etc. The campaign can mostly be completed by throwing 4 shotgun armed samurai at it.