2013 Major League Baseball: World Series- Boston Red Sox vs St. Louis Cardinals

Ah the sweet tears of Red Sox fans. Possibly a bad call last night but RSox fans act like they have NEVER had a call go there way.

karmajay wrote:

Ah the sweet tears of Red Sox fans. Possibly a bad call last night but RSox fans act like they have NEVER had a call go there way. :)

Yeah I'm loving the twitter trash talk today.

Suck it, the Rays are in 1st and we're not giving it up now.

Leroyog wrote:

Hammer dropped.

So sad! I'm a Tigers fan and knowing that Peralta showed up on the list made it a lot less exciting to see him hit so well this season (and a grand slam last month, too). Bummer to have him suspended, but it's deserved. Now I'm curious to see how Detroit responds to our new SS Jose Iglesias.

So baseball is still corrupt and full of cheaters. A real shame.

Vector wrote:

So baseball is still corrupt and full of cheaters. A real shame.

At least they do something about it, unlike every other 'major' sport in the US.

There's not really much that can be done about it. The incentives are too good. Most players who get caught are fringe major leaguers, and there's a pretty big difference between the ~$1200/month that guys in the minors make and the major league minimum of $400k or whatever it is now.

Besides - if you're not cheating, you're not trying.

ARod will appeal and the 2 year suspension will get overturned. Makes no sense that everyone else got 50 games but ARod got 211. We're talking in excess of $30 million that ARod stands to lose. I'd fight it tooth and nail too.

FSeven wrote:

ARod will appeal and the 2 year suspension will get overturned. Makes no sense that everyone else got 50 games but ARod got 211. We're talking in excess of $30 million that ARod stands to lose. I'd fight it tooth and nail too.

He is accused of greater transgressions related to impeding their investigation. This is also not his first trip to the rodeo. He has already admitted to using PED's in the past.

He deserves a lifetime ban, in my opinion.

I agree. If you get popped because you took an over the counter supplement that had some weird percentage of Ped substance that is one thing but if you go to a clinic to get said peds , banned.

Jayhawker wrote:

He is accused of greater transgressions related to impeding their investigation. This is also not his first trip to the rodeo. He has already admitted to using PED's in the past.

He deserves a lifetime ban, in my opinion.

It's also wasn't Brauns first offence, and he took advantage of the system and appeals process last time to get off while winning the MVP award. Yet he ends up with 65 games.

I don't have a problem with A-rods suspension, but I do feel like they went too lightly on others.

Baseball is trying to get rid of PEDs in the sport, football is trying to get rid of TD spiking and sack dances

It's a sad sad day when Selig is actually doing a better job than another sports commissioner.

Please note, Selig is FAR from doing a good job, but it does show how much Goodell sucks at his.

Jayhawker wrote:
FSeven wrote:

ARod will appeal and the 2 year suspension will get overturned. Makes no sense that everyone else got 50 games but ARod got 211. We're talking in excess of $30 million that ARod stands to lose. I'd fight it tooth and nail too.

He is accused of greater transgressions related to impeding their investigation. This is also not his first trip to the rodeo. He has already admitted to using PED's in the past.

He deserves a lifetime ban, in my opinion.

+ 1 - I still don't see why A-Rod didn't get a life ban when IMHO what he did was as bad if not worse than Pete Rose. Then again, as an adopted Mariners fan I got to watch Pay Rod morph from a decent player who actually cared about the fans into a guy who is so in love with himself I'm sure he makes out with his centaur statue.

Baseball is NOT trying it's best to get rid of PEDs. It's taking baby steps and handling it with kid gloves when it needs to crack the whip and draw the line in the sand. MLB is as implicit in the use of PEDs as the players themselves. Same with football.

MLB was happier than a pig in mud when baseball was making record revenues due largely in part to the record pace at which long balls were being hit. You think baseball was going to stop the McGwire/Sosa home run derby that singlehandedly revived baseball in order to implicate them, and ultimately ban them, for the use of PEDs? And let's be real here, everyone deep down knew these guys were using PEDs. Anyone with a basic functioning knowledge of what these things do to the human body only had to look at Sosa's, McGwire's and Bonds' physical transformation to know something was going on.

I agree with Nick Markakis that first time offenders should receive a 5-year ban from baseball although I'd even go further and say lifetime ban. You use, you lose. Simple policy. If baseball REALLY wanted to get rid of it, they could. Mandatory testing, in the locker room, once a week with medical personnel present to be sure samples are not contaminated or switched. Any player who refuses to take the tests forfeits his salary and is not allowed to play until he chooses to participate. I know athletes aren't the smartest bunch but I have a hard time believing someone would pass up the chance to make millions of dollars a year for playing baseball because they refuse to play it without the use of PEDs.

Oh hey, the Orioles won a game last night. It's like they forgot for the past two weeks that they are, in fact, finally a good team again.

I'm worried though. The AL East is incredibly powerful. The O's could easily be 15 games above .500 at the end of the year and still not make the playoffs.

FSeven wrote:

I agree with Nick Markakis that first time offenders should receive a 5-year ban from baseball although I'd even go further and say lifetime ban. You use, you lose. Simple policy. If baseball REALLY wanted to get rid of it, they could. Mandatory testing, in the locker room, once a week with medical personnel present to be sure samples are not contaminated or switched. Any player who refuses to take the tests forfeits his salary and is not allowed to play until he chooses to participate. I know athletes aren't the smartest bunch but I have a hard time believing someone would pass up the chance to make millions of dollars a year for playing baseball because they refuse to play it without the use of PEDs.

I completely disagree that this would solve the issue. Sure, a lifetime ban is gonna keep the stars from using it, as their millions are assured so long as they stay healthy. But other than a few of these players, most caught using steroids are minor leaguers trying to get the initial call to the pros or fringe pros who are trying to hold on to their career. For these players, it's still totally worth it to take the risk of a lifetime ban. A lifetime ban is no different than not making the jump from the minors to the majors in the first place, or in the case of a player on the fringe it's no different than losing your spot to someone coming up from the minors who makes the minimum.

Here's the list of players who have been suspended. From that list, I'd count as stars:

Ryan Braun
Manny Ramirez
Arod
Palmeiro
Maybe Jhonny Peralta

So sure, institute a lifetime ban and those guys probably don't take anything (though I could see older players like Palmeiro and Ramirez taking them in an attempt to hang on for a few more years). The majority of guys who have been caught would likely still have taken the risk.

Now look - I don't actually think taking steroids turns someone from a career minor leaguer into a major league regular, but for the sake of argument let's assume that they do. If I'm in AAA and don't quite have the velocity on my fastball to get major league hitters out regularly, and you tell me that you've got something that will magically make it so that I'm throwing 95 instead of 89, I'm going to do it in a heartbeat. The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

I'm all for harsher penalties of players taking PEDs. But gambling is actually more damaging to the integrity of the game than PEDs, in my opinion. While the results stemmed from cheating, fans watched games played by steroid users understanding the relative skills of the players and game's outcomes were decided on the field, in front of the fans.

If gambling ever becomes associated with the sport, fans no longer believe they are witnessing legitimate contests. They can accept guys pushing the rules to try to win, as they have done from the very beginning. But the possibility of tanking games makes the entire sport pointless to watch.

I do think PEDs rise about corked bats and scuffed baseballs. But players have been taking amphetamines for ages.

What about Tommy John surgery? Guys typically come back with ability to throw harder. Should a kid get banned for getting the surgery in the minors in order to pick up some MPH on his fastball? Or do we view that as cheating, and now prevent players getting the surgery, injury or not, from playing?

billt721 wrote:

Sure, a lifetime ban is gonna keep the stars from using it, as their millions are assured so long as they stay healthy. But other than a few of these players, most caught using steroids are minor leaguers trying to get the initial call to the pros or fringe pros who are trying to hold on to their career. For these players, it's still totally worth it to take the risk of a lifetime ban. A lifetime ban is no different than not making the jump from the minors to the majors in the first place, or in the case of a player on the fringe it's no different than losing your spot to someone coming up from the minors who makes the minimum.

A lifetime ban would affect all Major League affiliates. So if someone were caught, no more AAA, AA, or A baseball. Enjoy your career in Japan!

billt721 wrote:

The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

Do you think if PED's were 100% removed, that those minor leaguers you refer to would stand a better chance of making it to the bigs with an even playing field and the performance barometer much lower?

FSeven wrote:
billt721 wrote:

Sure, a lifetime ban is gonna keep the stars from using it, as their millions are assured so long as they stay healthy. But other than a few of these players, most caught using steroids are minor leaguers trying to get the initial call to the pros or fringe pros who are trying to hold on to their career. For these players, it's still totally worth it to take the risk of a lifetime ban. A lifetime ban is no different than not making the jump from the minors to the majors in the first place, or in the case of a player on the fringe it's no different than losing your spot to someone coming up from the minors who makes the minimum.

A lifetime ban would affect all Major League affiliates. So if someone were caught, no more AAA, AA, or A baseball. Enjoy your career in Japan!

billt721 wrote:

The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

Do you think if PED's were 100% removed, that those minor leaguers you refer to would stand a better chance of making it to the bigs with an even playing field and the performance barometer much lower?

Japan is often preferable to AAA or AA.

FSeven wrote:
billt721 wrote:

The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

Do you think if PED's were 100% removed, that those minor leaguers you refer to would stand a better chance of making it to the bigs with an even playing field and the performance barometer much lower?

I don't, because again, I don't actually know that PEDs make much of a difference other than in things like recovering from injuries or fatigue. There's not enough (or any, really) research into how PEDs effect the things that a baseball player does. Steroids are great if you want to bulk up and gain strength, HGH is great if you want to speed recovery time, but how does either of those (to name two) interact with the fact that things like pitching velocity and hitting power come more from hip rotation than from pure strength? Beyond whether or not they do much for baseball skills, I think it's naive to think that 100% removing PEDs is actually possible. Competitive people are always looking for an edge, and more importantly, chemists are generally a few steps ahead of the various testing agencies.

Edit: Tried to clarify my stance on PEDs in baseball.

Vector wrote:
FSeven wrote:
billt721 wrote:

Sure, a lifetime ban is gonna keep the stars from using it, as their millions are assured so long as they stay healthy. But other than a few of these players, most caught using steroids are minor leaguers trying to get the initial call to the pros or fringe pros who are trying to hold on to their career. For these players, it's still totally worth it to take the risk of a lifetime ban. A lifetime ban is no different than not making the jump from the minors to the majors in the first place, or in the case of a player on the fringe it's no different than losing your spot to someone coming up from the minors who makes the minimum.

A lifetime ban would affect all Major League affiliates. So if someone were caught, no more AAA, AA, or A baseball. Enjoy your career in Japan!

billt721 wrote:

The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

Do you think if PED's were 100% removed, that those minor leaguers you refer to would stand a better chance of making it to the bigs with an even playing field and the performance barometer much lower?

Japan is often preferable to AAA or AA.

Absolutely. Minor leaguers seriously make no money. There was an article that covered it a few years ago, which I'll see if I can dig up, but they make basically $1200/mo for the 6 months of the season. They aren't paid during spring training. They get by by living with 4 other guys in a 1-bedroom place and eating the free candybars and other 'food' provided by the team. So if you're a AAAA player who can't quite make the leap to the majors (recently guys like Wladimir Balentin and Colby Lewis) but still want to attempt to make a living playing baseball, Japan or even Korea is a great place to go.

Edit: This wasn't the article I referred to, but it works.

billt721 wrote:
Vector wrote:
FSeven wrote:
billt721 wrote:

Sure, a lifetime ban is gonna keep the stars from using it, as their millions are assured so long as they stay healthy. But other than a few of these players, most caught using steroids are minor leaguers trying to get the initial call to the pros or fringe pros who are trying to hold on to their career. For these players, it's still totally worth it to take the risk of a lifetime ban. A lifetime ban is no different than not making the jump from the minors to the majors in the first place, or in the case of a player on the fringe it's no different than losing your spot to someone coming up from the minors who makes the minimum.

A lifetime ban would affect all Major League affiliates. So if someone were caught, no more AAA, AA, or A baseball. Enjoy your career in Japan!

billt721 wrote:

The monetary incentive is too great to pass up - especially if I wasn't a high draft pick (and assuming that I'm throwing 89, that's a pretty good bet) and didn't get a nice signing bonus.

Do you think if PED's were 100% removed, that those minor leaguers you refer to would stand a better chance of making it to the bigs with an even playing field and the performance barometer much lower?

Japan is often preferable to AAA or AA.

Absolutely. Minor leaguers seriously make no money. There was an article that covered it a few years ago, which I'll see if I can dig up, but they make basically $1200/mo for the 6 months of the season. They aren't paid during spring training. They get by by living with 4 other guys in a 1-bedroom place and eating the free candybars and other 'food' provided by the team. So if you're a AAAA player who can't quite make the leap to the majors (recently guys like Wladimir Balentin and Colby Lewis) but still want to attempt to make a living playing baseball, Japan or even Korea is a great place to go.

Edit: This wasn't the article I referred to, but it works.

From a player I talked to here, you still need some major league experience. He knew he wasn't good enough to stick in the majors but if he could get one inning he'd attract interest from Japan and Korea. Managed to get one inning of relief, got shelled, but got a contract offer from the Orix Buffaloes in the offseason. They gave him an appartment, he is married with a kid, and a full-time translator. Also said that the South American league he played in, don't remember which one, scared the crap out of him.

f*ck.

Rays blew another one.

Whatever magic they had in July has went to hell in August.

Up 6-0. Give up 1 in the 7th, 2 more in the 8th and now 4 and game over in the 9th. Unbelievable.

Blown save by Rodney.

Dodgers hot streak stays alive, at our expense.

Stele wrote:

f*ck.

Rays blew another one.

Whatever magic they had in July has went to hell in August.

Up 6-0. Give up 1 in the 7th, 2 more in the 8th and now 4 and game over in the 9th. Unbelievable.

Blown save by Rodney.

Dodgers hot streak stays alive, at our expense. :mad:

At least they pulled off the hidden-ball trick. That's gotta be worth like 3 wins.

Stele wrote:

f*ck.

Rays blew another one.

Whatever magic they had in July has went to hell in August.

Up 6-0. Give up 1 in the 7th, 2 more in the 8th and now 4 and game over in the 9th. Unbelievable.

Blown save by Rodney.

Dodgers hot streak stays alive, at our expense. :mad:

And Boston keeps winning. Tough to keep up that pace!

ukickmydog wrote:

At least they pulled off the hidden-ball trick. That's gotta be worth like 3 wins.

It must suck to be Uribe after that. I think in Japan, it's understood that guys in Uribe's place perform seppuku.

FSeven wrote:
ukickmydog wrote:

At least they pulled off the hidden-ball trick. That's gotta be worth like 3 wins.

It must suck to be Uribe after that. I think in Japan, it's understood that guys in Uribe's place perform seppuku.

I think it'd be more appropriate for the 3rd base coach. Wallach I think his name is? He wasn't the one bent over tying his shoe or whatever, and should have seen where the ball was.

Another fan falling death in Atlanta

Seems like this is happening every season, in various parks. Sad.

Finally. Rays losing streak broken.

And Boston and Baltimore lose too, in 10 and 14 respectively.

Stele wrote:

Finally. Rays losing streak broken.

And Boston and Baltimore lose too, in 10 and 14 respectively. :cool:

Boston finally loses an overtime game hehe