"The Indian Question"

Well, the P&C forums seem to have race in America pretty well sorted out.

But what about race in Canada?

Controversial legislation, accusations of corruption, and a hunger strike have called attention to the status of the First Nations people in Canada (for you in Murrica, just think "Indians"). Anyone who's lived in a city with a large First Nations population knows the situation is... sub-optimal.

What's to be done, and by whom, to change some of the issues that First Nations Canadians face? I'm not talking about preventing the next Oka so much as the next... well, race-related crime that happened recently/will happen soon in one of our cities.

What exactly is the situation? It's hard to imagine that Canada-land has treated its indigenous population any worse than the US has... and while I think our solution is kind of meh, I also imagine reparations are very unlikely.

Out of curiosity, how big is this in the average Canadian's mind versus like... Quebec?

Demosthenes wrote:

What exactly is the situation? It's hard to imagine that Canada-land has treated its indigenous population any worse than the US has... and while I think our solution is kind of meh, I also imagine reparations are very unlikely.

Out of curiosity, how big is this in the average Canadian's mind versus like... Quebec?

Let's be clear, not only is our solution 'meh' but we suck at enforcing it because the BIA kind of doesn't have its sh*t together.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Well, the P&C forums seem to have race in America pretty well sorted out.

But what about race in Canada?

Controversial legislation, accusations of corruption, and a hunger strike have called attention to the status of the First Nations people in Canada (for you in Murrica, just think "Indians"). Anyone who's lived in a city with a large First Nations population knows the situation is... sub-optimal.

What's to be done, and by whom, to change some of the issues that First Nations Canadians face? I'm not talking about preventing the next Oka so much as the next... well, race-related crime that happened recently/will happen soon in one of our cities.

Links? Only thing i know about the indians in Canada is what my friend tells me on her trips up to northern Ontario and they're super isolated up there.

ranalin wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Well, the P&C forums seem to have race in America pretty well sorted out.

But what about race in Canada?

Controversial legislation, accusations of corruption, and a hunger strike have called attention to the status of the First Nations people in Canada (for you in Murrica, just think "Indians"). Anyone who's lived in a city with a large First Nations population knows the situation is... sub-optimal.

What's to be done, and by whom, to change some of the issues that First Nations Canadians face? I'm not talking about preventing the next Oka so much as the next... well, race-related crime that happened recently/will happen soon in one of our cities.

Links? Only thing i know about the indians in Canada is what my friend tells me on her trips up to northern Ontario and they're super isolated up there.

So kicked over to land that that no one else wants. Getting into the meh of A-meh-ica, not a great start.

Where I grew Indian refered to Indo-Canadians. I've always refered to "Indians" are Natives or First Nations.

I'm not even aware of the problems because so it varies so much between group. The whole situation seems analagous to what the black population in America. Racism, either veiled or obvious, economically disadvantaged, stereotyped, etc.

I think the Australians are very much on the right path. Aboriginal peoples have much more equal standing in the Australian courts, the Aboriginal Heritage Act has gone far to not only preserving the heritage of Aboriginals, but has made an affirmative step to recognizing it as national heritage. The theft of native artifacts is to be treated much more speedily and harshly.

From my experience we (Canadians) just throw money at the situation never solving the problem and since its not a large amount of money or people (maybe it is but it doesn't seem that way) we (Canadians) just turn a blind eye.

As for the post above

well, race-related crime that happened recently/will happen soon in one of our cities.

. It depends on the city but I live 5 minutes from the Atwater park where the old Forum was located here in Downtown Montreal and the Native Mission is close. Its not a good situation but its hardly degenerating to worse. Just an ongoing cycle of awful. BTW I have no solution so I just avoid the park. :/

edit: Just to be clear for the non Canadians/non Urban dwellers Natives are a high % of our homeless/substance abusers.

More education, more job training, more resources, more outreach, more respect. Who can do that? Not a Conservative government. I'm not super-informed on First Nations issues, but I see enough evening news to be able to enumerate some of the issues facing First Nations in Canada: sky-high alcoholism and substance abuse, fetal alcohol syndrome, highest suicide rate, highest incarceration rate, lack of schooling and job opportunities, poverty, systemic racism, ignored, mistreated, or killed by police. And that's not even counting the ongoing legacy of the residential schools.

Like Vector says, it's roughly analogous to blacks in the States. I think in Canada though the treatment of the First Nations is insidious and shameful for a country that crows about its multicultural tolerance and mosaic society. It's wonderful the opportunities we provide for immigrants, but it's the 21st century and we need to get our house in order.

Gravey wrote:

More education, more job training, more resources, more outreach, more respect. Who can do that? Not a Conservative government. I'm not super-informed on First Nations issues, but I see enough evening news to be able to enumerate some of the issues facing First Nations in Canada: sky-high alcoholism and substance abuse, fetal alcohol syndrome, highest suicide rate, highest incarceration rate, lack of schooling and job opportunities, poverty, systemic racism, ignored, mistreated, or killed by police. And that's not even counting the ongoing legacy of the residential schools.

Like Vector says, it's roughly analogous to blacks in the States. I think in Canada though the treatment of the First Nations is insidious and shameful for a country that crows about its multicultural tolerance and mosaic society. It's wonderful the opportunities we provide for immigrants, but it's the 21st century and we need to get our house in order.

Nailed it.

Gravey wrote:

More education, more job training, more resources, more outreach, more respect. Who can do that? Not a Conservative government. I'm not super-informed on First Nations issues, but I see enough evening news to be able to enumerate some of the issues facing First Nations in Canada: sky-high alcoholism and substance abuse, fetal alcohol syndrome, highest suicide rate, highest incarceration rate, lack of schooling and job opportunities, poverty, systemic racism, ignored, mistreated, or killed by police. And that's not even counting the ongoing legacy of the residential schools.

Like Vector says, it's roughly analogous to blacks in the States. I think in Canada though the treatment of the First Nations is insidious and shameful for a country that crows about its multicultural tolerance and mosaic society. It's wonderful the opportunities we provide for immigrants, but it's the 21st century and we need to get our house in order.

Or you know, first nation people in the states where alcoholism and drug abuse rates are high.

boogle wrote:

Or you know, first nation people in the states where alcoholism and drug abuse rates are high.

I was just comparing it the most visible example—but sure, I'll grant you that your country is terrible to many different cultures.

Spoiler:

Trolololololo

Well, let's get the important questions out of the way first. How baggy are their clothes?

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Well, let's get the important questions out of the way first. How baggy are their clothes?

haha. For the troll to be more accurate, shouldn't you be asking how faded their mounty outfits are?

No sense of humor, huh? Must be the restrictive clothing.

If memory serves statistics, native peoples are under some of the worst conditions of any group in North America, coupled with the lowest mind-share. But, you know, they got Johnny Depp.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

No sense of humor, huh? Must be the restrictive clothing.

I laughed at it. To be honest, I kinda felt like Anita Sarkeesian for a second. . .

...What, no sense of humor?

ranalin wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I'm not talking about preventing the next Oka so much as the next... well, race-related crime that happened recently/will happen soon in one of our cities.

Links? Only thing i know about the indians in Canada is what my friend tells me on her trips up to northern Ontario and they're super isolated up there.

Surprised to find this a Thing on Wiki-freakin'-pedia.

The Saskatoon freezing deaths were a series of deaths amongst Canadian Aboriginal people in Saskatoon. There have been accusations these deaths may have been caused by members of the Saskatoon Police Service. The accusation is that officers would arrest aboriginal men and drive them out of the city in the dead of winter to abandon them. The practice is known as starlight tours.

Perhaps the Prairies is the worst region for First Nations relations. One American magazine article referred to one of the provincial capitals as "the Mississippi of the North."

What can white people do, other than not voting Conservative as "upsettlers" do?

Nevermind.

Seth wrote:

...What, no sense of humor?

Not at all. I think you're hilarious.

boogle wrote:
Gravey wrote:

More education, more job training, more resources, more outreach, more respect. Who can do that? Not a Conservative government. I'm not super-informed on First Nations issues, but I see enough evening news to be able to enumerate some of the issues facing First Nations in Canada: sky-high alcoholism and substance abuse, fetal alcohol syndrome, highest suicide rate, highest incarceration rate, lack of schooling and job opportunities, poverty, systemic racism, ignored, mistreated, or killed by police. And that's not even counting the ongoing legacy of the residential schools.

Like Vector says, it's roughly analogous to blacks in the States. I think in Canada though the treatment of the First Nations is insidious and shameful for a country that crows about its multicultural tolerance and mosaic society. It's wonderful the opportunities we provide for immigrants, but it's the 21st century and we need to get our house in order.

Or you know, first nation people in the states where alcoholism and drug abuse rates are high.

I know round here in the West, this situation is often connected with the economic desolation of Reservations, which is tough to separate from the actual desolation of the land those Reservations sit upon. Is it fair to say the Reserves have similar troubles?

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

What can white people do, other than not voting Conservative as "upsettlers" do?

If it's anything like Australia then this is a horrifically intertwined collection of issues that has been festering for generations and as such to blame one side of politics for it, or to claim that another side has all the answers is naïve. Both left and right governments have contributed for good and ill and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Looking at the issues of Aboriginal Australians (and I assume First Nations Canadians) through the prism of partisan politics, looking for an angle to make a political argument is the last thing the ones who are suffering most need.

Yes yes, I was just thinking of the Harper government's attitude towards substance abuse programs, and the way they put their ideology ahead of health experts and scientific facts. I'm not blaming the Tories for the problems, just suggesting they aren't the ones to look to for solutions.

Due to the treaties that the Canadian government has with the majority of First Nations tribes, there is very little that the government can do. On their reservations, they have almost complete autonomy. Based on what I have read (which admittedly may be biased), there is a great deal of financial mismanagement amongst the First Nations tribes. Before anything substantial can be done that would have any sort of substantial effect, there should really be some effort by the First Nations people to correct this mismanagement. If no effort is done for this, throwing more money at the situation is like pounding sand down a rathole.

Yeah, I'd also like to say that Australia is most emphatically not the place you should be looking for answers. We tend to sweep native Australians under the rug, dust over them with legislation, begrudgingly misapply government handouts and let the public and political conscience descend into a nasty kind of internal xenophobia (turns out we hate both unsolicited new arrivals and the originals here in paradise!).

For an interesting look into the race and immigration landscape down here, hop on Google and check out 'NT Intervention' and 'Nauru Solution'. Y'all might feel a little better about yourselves after delving into those 'successful' political cesspools.

Thanks for the Oz perspective, folks. I daresay this is a can full of worms, each of which contains in miniscule can contain yet smaller worms.

I'll leave folks with this thing I found:

Hardly think that comparing it to black people in the states is even close to accurate.

The situation is much different especially when you try and wrap your head around the whole reservation system.

Also the demographics are not similar. Last I checked African Americans made up roughly 10% (give or take) of the population whereas Natives excluding Metis and Inuit are 3.5% around in Canada. Its a large enough group of people that it just can't be ignored but at the same time small enough to be complacent.

Its a situation that's to sticky for politicians to touch but its not going anywhere at a projected 1.4 million people by 2017.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-645-...

Edit: also it doesn't exactly translate to compare it to natives in the States.

2.9 million
As of 2010, the estimated population of American Indians and Alaska Natives. They made up 0.9% of the total population

Not to sound crude to reduce ethnic groups to numbers but the numbers relative to size of countries matter.

I live in Edmonton and there is a lot of racisim against Aboriginals around here.

I got mugged several years ago and the first thing Edmontonions asked was "Were they native?"

I have heard that the conditions on each reserve can vary significantly depending on the Aboriginal management of the reserve, but that is only anecdote.