2013/14 Soccer Thread

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...because if Celtic playing that Swedish team for right to compete to qualify for CL group stages isn't signifier of a new season starting, then I don't know what is.

Also, I'm bored this evening.

Holy cow, previous thread has almost 2300 posts. For so few regular posters, you have to say, we really do get excited about our football.

I was just thinking about this today - obviously UCRC beat me to the punch.

City 5 AC Milan 3. Not a full strength team by either (none of City's starting back 4 started the game), but was quietly impressed by the new signings....Jesus Navas is going to give some LBs fits. Linked up well with Micah and Dzeko looked to appreciate the better service from the flanks. Kolarov showed once again that he's better as a LWB than an LB, and Garcia was tried at CB as a sort of Mascherano, I guess. He was less than impressive...wants too much time with the ball, which is bad enough in midfield but very poor at CB. Almost made me pine for the days of HMS Dunne.

Cheeky bid for Jagielka, I thinks - depends on how badly injured Nastasic is.

This year's predictions (might as well get them in first)

League - Chelsea <10 points > Man City <2 points> Arsenal <3 points> Man United based on squads at 31 July.

Cup - Spurs

League Cup - City

Champs League - FC Arrogant

I just think Chelsea's squad is too good, and if they get Shrek from Man U it'll be better still. Man U will struggle to adapt to a new manager, and they are only 1 RvP injury from disaster. I might have put Arsenal above City if Higuain had joined up, just reverse the two if Alvin is signed.

Liverpool - Hampered by sh*te defence and by Rogers not being as smart as he thinks he is
Spurs - Who knows what will happen with Bale

Relegation

C Palace (nailed on, Holloway is a clown)
Hull (ditto Bruce, serial loser)
West Brom (no Lukaku this time, lads)

Surprise packages

Cardiff (strong squad, good buys)
Sunderland (some very good buys, looked very good against Spurs)

Well, Chelsea signed one new player and City, who did so much better than them last year - four. Same point for Arsenal - they don't really compare (in terms of squad strength) to team that can casually spend hundred million pounds almost every summer?

I'd say top three is a random permutation of City - United - Chelsea (with new managers coming in it's impossible to gauge their weaknesses), then
Arsenal (again, I don't know how many players we'd have to sign to be on level of top three)
Tottenham
Everton
Liverpool
Swansea
Sunderland
Southampton
Cardiff
West Brom
Aston Villa
Stoke
Fulham
rest of the rabble

Everton above Liverpool. That's what I like to see.

Everton are managed by Roberto Martinez and have no money. I don't think they'll finish in the top half. If they finish above Liverpool, Rodgers will be finished.

United are a real one-man outfit, and RvP defied his usual status by remaining fit all season. The defence isn't that convincing, and I don't think Moyes has the experience of managing a lot of international players and having to juggle their demands for playing time. He's also not got a lot of experience in European competitions either. Oh, and Ed Woodward...perhaps you'd like to share with us what the emergency was that had you flying home to finish transfers...12 days ago.

And according to Arsenal, they could spend a hundred million pound, they seem to be choosing not to - that's two different issues. City have got rid of a lot of salaries this calendar year (Crocky, Bridge, Toure, Maicon, Mario, Tevez), so in salary terms it may well be that the total sum is relatively similar.

I really don't see Everton finishing above Liverpool either. I think they are going to struggle badly this season.

Arsenal finishing above Man Utd. - I would love to see it but I think as of now all it's going to take is an injury to a key player or two (Cazorla, Koscielny) and Arsenal could be in a spot of bother.
Obviously we may pick up a player or two before the start of season but it doesn't seem likely at this point. Emirates Cup this weekend, hopefully see how they look against some 'better' teams, albeit still pre-season.

davet010 wrote:

Everton are managed by Roberto Martinez and have no money. I don't think they'll finish in the top half.

They had no money and Moyes last year, and you don't seem to rate him that high either.

davet010 wrote:

United are a real one-man outfit, and RvP defied his usual status by remaining fit all season.

I'm pretty sure you said that last year as well.

davet010 wrote:

And according to Arsenal, they could spend a hundred million pound, they seem to be choosing not to - that's two different issues.

Either way, they won't be on par with City or Chelsea if they don't spend it, and that was my point. As for reasons why, that's a different discussion altogether.
When you say "total sum is relatively similar" you mean similar to what?

1. Everton were mediocre last year as well. Martinez has a worse record in the Premiership. Bottom half.

2. And it's still correct. The fact is that only twice in 9 seasons in the Premiership has van Persie played more than 75% of matches.

3. According to those who run them, who I am guessing should know, Arsenal have had the capacity to spend money every summer. But they've chosen to keep it themselves, thus losing players who appear to believe that Arsenal have little or no ambition. Thus, as in every industry, under-investment means that the perceived gap to make up becomes wider and wider over time.

4. Totally similar to City's wage bill the previous season. Hence the financial impact is the fee, not fee plus wages, I think.

davet010 wrote:

1. Everton were mediocre last year as well. Martinez has a worse record in the Premiership. Bottom half.

I know if it's not Sky Blue it's sh*te and all, but I'm not sure what it says about City if they were only able to earn a draw at home, and suffered a 2-0 defeat against a mediocre side.

That said, I think our squad is awfully long in the tooth and the fact we haven't had money to bring on too many promising young players will continue to be a liability.

Here are my predictions for league finishes this season:

Chelsea (only one new signing so far, but had several players out on loan last season)
Man City
Arsenal
Man Utd
Tottenham
Sunderland
Swansea
Everton
Liverpool
Cardiff
Southampton
Norwich
Aston Villa
Newcastle
Stoke
Fulham
West Brom
Crystal Palace
Hull
West Ham

Spoiler:

I originally had Everton below Liverpool. My gut is that we'll be in 9th or so this season, but my heart wouldn't let me hit post without swapping those two first.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

Chelsea (only one new signing so far, but had several players out on loan last season)

I don't understand that kind of generosity. They've been nowehere near top two in terms of consistency for last couple of seasons and now we're assuming they will win the championship just because they've got few young players (Schurrle, that Dutch boy, Lukaku and few others) in?

Same deal with United. They have to be in top two, there's no other group of players who can grind out results so well.

Overall, when I compiled my table I just took last year's one and then made minor corrections on account of transfer spending, which means:
- City closer to United with four good signings
- Chelsea closer to those two because of Mourinho and bigger squad

Those Chelsea players all did well out on loan (Lukaku and de Bruyne particularly), and Mourinho is a lot more suited to them than the out-of-his-depth di Matteo or the we-don't-f**king-want-you-here Benitez. Chelsea only lack consistency because they keep binning the manager - I suspect Mourinho will last his usual 3 years then be off, but he's used to dealing with interfering owners.

Oh, and dimmerswitch ? City might have done badly (as usual) against Everton (in the Moyes-inspired 'waaa waaa they bought Lescott' match), but they still finished some 15 points ahead of you. And Martinez is not a good manager, let's be honest about it. And Sunderland in 6th - brave man. If you went to the bookies for them to get a European place, I suspect you'd get at least 25-1. They've bought what appear to be good players, but then so did QPR...and di Canio is a bomb waiting to go off.

davet010 wrote:

Oh, and dimmerswitch ? City might have done badly (as usual) against Everton (in the Moyes-inspired 'waaa waaa they bought Lescott' match), but they still finished some 15 points ahead of you. And Martinez is not a good manager, let's be honest about it. And Sunderland in 6th - brave man. If you went to the bookies for them to get a European place, I suspect you'd get at least 25-1. They've bought what appear to be good players, but then so did QPR...and di Canio is a bomb waiting to go off.

Astute observers of this thread will notice I didn't cast aspersions on any team, only point out that perhaps "mediocre" was a bit of an unkind overstatement (I know my shocked face is around here somewhere, let's see...)

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/W5BaP4S.jpg)

More seriously, I think your point about Martinez's record is fair - it's not clear yet whether he can challenge for a Cup and also avoid relegation, and we're additionally facing the challenge of a generational turnover the next season or two. Even in a best-case scenario, we're probably three or four years away from being able to challenge for a European spot (and I'm glad we didn't manage it this past season, since our squad is barely deep enough to make it through a normal Premier League fixture list).

That is, unless some wealthy sheikh decides to buy us and dump hundreds of millions into making us a title contender.

I'll tell you what - I think the biggest thing that seems to put investors off Everton (and it's rumoured that the Abu Dhabi consortium did look at Everton and Villa at the same time as City) is the amount that would have to be invested in a new ground as well as being invested in the playing side...and the fact that Liverpool City Council don't seem to be as helpful as their Mancunian equivalents. Is the Kirkby deal definitely off now ?

You're right about Sunderland and Chelsea, but I still don't think that new manager can fix it all. I'm pretty sure we'll know by late autumn, which is when that Chelsea team used to fold in recent seasons.

UCRC wrote:

August is starting, some European leagues are kicking off, let's move:
...because if Celtic playing that Swedish team for right to compete to qualify for CL group stages isn't signifier of a new season starting, then I don't know what is.

Also, I'm bored this evening.

What do you mean kicking off, we've already played 2 league matches.

davet010 wrote:

Is the Kirkby deal definitely off now ?

No idea - I haven't followed the new-ground stuff that closely, but looking now it appears Kirby is dead and that a couple of locations are under discussion (as is a ground-sharing plan with Liverpool, which just seems like a recipe for trouble).

Did want to note that I agree di Canio is a tightly-wound, fascist-sympathizing little twat, but I'm guessing he holds it together for at least this season before flaming out spectacularly.

Are we doing a GWJ fantasy league this year? I'd be down to vie for the lowest rung on the results ladder, if so.

Not sure if it's up yet, but I'll kick one off as soon as poss.

EDIT - Liverpool are apparently preparing for life after Alvin....by launching a bid for a player who's on-field behaviour is actually worse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footbal...

I think I posted about this chump after one Athletico game I watched last season...he's got the full repetoire. Dives, snide little kicks, bawling at the ref He's right up there with Arjen Robben in the 'could never get tired of punching' stakes. Admittedly I only saw about 10-12 of AM's matches last season, but he never really struck me as £21m of football 'talent' - if that's how Rodgers would propose spending half of any fee for Alvin, then lord knows where the other half is going...Joey Barton perhaps.

davet010 wrote:

if that's how Rodgers would propose spending half of any fee for Alvin, then lord knows where the other half is going...Joey Barton perhaps.

Please yes. Apparently there's been some talk of him coming to Everton, which I would not be thrilled about.

Neville Southall kind of summed it up for me.

Neville Southall wrote:

I think they have already got a kitman. What is he going to add to Everton? He might be a half-decent player at times but, if he was that good, Harry Redknapp would be begging him to stay at QPR.

I don't see how he will fit into Everton's style of play. He ain't the best passer in the world. Yes he is fit and runs up and down all day but Forrest Gump did that as well didn't he?

I would rather he [Martínez] got in a young lad who is probably on less money and a better prospect in the long run so they have got until January to bed him in and see what he is like. A 30-year-old at Everton? I was hoping they were past that, unless he was a current international.

It is a shame in some ways, because Barton could have been a very good player if his head had been right - although he wouldn't be the first or last player in the world to have that said about him. I always remember him getting sent off at Spurs while walking off the pitch at half time for giving the ref a mouthful, in the cup game City won 4-3 after being 3-0 down.

Good game by City today, losing 2-1 to a pretty full strength Bayern thanks to a home team penalty decision.

Less amusing was the first pundit lineup on the new BT Sport channel. Alongside Jake what-his-name who used to present BBC's F1 coverage was the following lineup.

Michael Owen - one time Liverpool player, now more Man U than the pope. Appears to have the mental age of a Sun reader.
David James - Bitter, clueless ex-professional. Hates City because they binned him (2 years overdue, IMO), so was surprised they weren't playing better. Against a full-ish strength Bayern. In the Allianz Arena. At a point where it was 0-0. What a dick.
Steve McManaman - Less clueless, but less intelligible. Definitely keeps abreast of what's going on in Spain, not sure about other leagues.

On the live commentary, Ian Darke (who was doing Sky games 20 years ago) was joined by one Owen Hargreaves...not bad (although somewhat Bayern-biased, fair enough), but I just spent all game thinking 'what the hell sort of accent is that ?'.

The one bright spot was hearing James, in a discussion about who's going to win the CL, declare that both Barca and RM, indeed the whole of Spanish football, is on the decline. Then listening to McManaman spend 60 seconds completely demolishing him. David, having haircuts like a clown doesn't mean that you have to be a clown.

davet010 wrote:

Good game by City today, losing 2-1 to a pretty full strength Bayern thanks to a home team penalty decision.

You mean the handball where Zabaleta flailed his arm above his head and smacked the ball while in the box? That home team penalty?

Both teams looked good though, it was a fun match to watch.

Owen Hargreaves is worse than Satan.

Also, UCRC you say the Europa League is what spurred you to start the new thread but we all know that it was the Marquee™ Event™ of North™ American™ Soccer™, the MLS™ All™-Star™ game™. (Given that MLS tried to get the trademark to the Cascadia Cup I'm surprised they haven't tried to trademark any of those words or terms).

As for my Premier League predictions, I've tried to resist the temptation to do anything overly crazy. I actually think Liverpool have a decent chance of finishing top-4 but that's the type of pick that's more of a "look at me trying to be smart" than thinking they'll actually do well. When there's nothing on the line other than some ribbing I'm prone to that sort of thing.

1- Manchester City
2- Chelsea
3- Spurs
4- Arsenal
-----------------
5-Manchester United
6-Liverpool
7-Southampton
8-Swansea
9-Everton
10-Newcastle
11-West Brom
12-West Ham
13-Fullham
14-Cardiff
15-Norwich
16-Stoke
17-Aston Villa
-----------------
18-Sunderland
19-Hull
20-Crystal Palace

Psych wrote:

You mean the handball where Zabaleta flailed his arm above his head and smacked the ball while in the box? That home team penalty?

Yeah, that one. Hard to deliberately handle a ball when you can't see it and aren't looking for it

Roke - I like the cut of your jib, sir !

And.....the GWJ Premiership is back !!

Due to overwhelming popular demand, this prestigious competition is now open on the fantasy.premierleague.com site for the 2013-14 season.

Just select 'join league' - the code is 885621-210436.

I've joined. Did anyone happen to catch the final table of the GWJ Premiership 2012-13 table?

It looked something like this...

IMAGE(http://content.mcfc.co.uk//~/media/Images/Home/News/Team%20News/2011-2012%20Season/Home%20Games/QPR%20Sunday%2013%20May/Sergio%20cup%20lift.ashx)

davet010 wrote:
Psych wrote:

You mean the handball where Zabaleta flailed his arm above his head and smacked the ball while in the box? That home team penalty?

Yeah, that one. Hard to deliberately handle a ball when you can't see it and aren't looking for it

From the Fifa handbook:

Deliberate Handball
If a player deliberately touches the ball with their hand or otherwise obstructs the movement of the ball with the arm, it is considered to be a deliberate handball and a direct free kick is awarded to the other team. Depending on context and the position of the player committing the offense, the referee may issue a caution. In cases where a player deliberately handles the ball in order to avoid injury, such as shielding the face from the ball, the referee may use discretion to determine whether an offense took place.

Accidental Handball
The context of hand position is important. This player could claim to be using his arm his face.
The referee typically does not award a foul if the handball is accidental. If the ball hits the hand or arm, it is considered accidental. However, in cases where the ball hits the hand or arm and the arms are in an unnatural position, such as over the head or stretched outwards, the referee may still award a foul.

Typical load of FIFA wank, no wonder referees come across as inconsistent buffoons. Do you seriously think, if the teams had been reversed, that there is a snowball in hell's chance that a penalty would have been awarded ?

In the case of the second paragraph, at what point may a referee award a foul ? When a player's arms are rotating but he isn't looking to handball it ? what are the criteria ?

Yes, if the teams were reversed the penalty would have been awarded. An arm flailing above someone's head, altering the path of the ball, is a handball.

Psych wrote:

Yes, if the teams were reversed the penalty would have been awarded. An arm flailing above someone's head, altering the path of the ball, is a handball.

Everywhere. Even if city was at home.

I'll do some predictions later but its just going to be some variation of the same top 4 with City and Chelsea being the challengers.

I don't see United challenging.... Even if they sign some players. They have really butchered this transfer window so far. The first thing they should of done was splash some cash on at least two guys regardless as they need some depth anyways. Instead the pressure is just mounting on Moyes already and he hasn't even managed a game that matters.

Arsenal could "pretend" to challenge if they brought in Suarez but even then doesn't really address depth at midfield (Arteta is on allot of miles), depth at cb (vermaelen is our captain from the bench and is injured), and finally our shakey goal keeping situation. I love Szczesny but he really needs some elder tutoring/competition IMO.

Still leaves Arsenal clearly ahead of spurs and Liverpool IMO tho.

Emirates cup this weekend... Kick in the balls? Napoli is one of the teams. Hopefully he doesn't score a goal... Or maybe its better he scores 10.

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