Fabulous Final Fantasy Franchise Discussion Catch-all

ahrezmendi wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

My roommate has Dissidia and played it hooked up to a television a bit, letting me get a look at it. I found it comical and absurd in how they took what seemed like rather "subtle" in comparison fantasy battles and turned them all into some crazy fighting anime. I mean, people fly. All the time. All of them. They can all fly.

So this stuck out to you as comical and absurd. What about Kefka ripping a continent in half in FF6? Cecil et al flying to the moon in a whale? Squall turning Balamb Garden into a literal flying city?

Or this:

IMAGE(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/289/4/1/phantom_train_suplex_by_p4g4n3l3m3nt5-d30wk0s.jpg)

Really though Dissidia is always how I imagined the fights to be. Plus have you seen the final fantasy 7 movie. They basically do just fly around like and fight like crazy. Why? Cause it's awesome.

edit: Also I loved the Garden battle scene from VIII.

lol, train suplex. It's true!

Train suplex is wonderful.

I didn't say there weren't epic/over-the-top moments in these games, or that I never picture some of these fights as having bad ass epic moments (summoning Neo Bahamut or Super-Space-Bahamut in FF7). But it was more fitting what I imagined when taking medieval warfare and mixing it with magic and beasts. People still jumped like normal (unless they were dragoons).

I suppose it's just a matter of presentation. Either way, Tifa being able to fly is, yes, absurd to me. But I don't mean that in an insulting way. More in a charming way.

But if we're talking FF8, I'm insulting non-stop. That game is absurd, but comical would suggest I could wring some level of fun out of it.

Drawing 99 Aura from an enemy and demolishing every boss with repeated limit breaks was quite fun. I know I'm in the minority in liking FF8, but as disjointed as the story was I thought it had some good characters, and the battle system and card mini-game were enough to keep me entertained for a long time. In fact, I recall blowing out a controller port on my PS1 because I played FF8 for so long in a single sitting. Or maybe that was Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance...

Stele wrote:

That sounds brutal. Seems like they dialed it back a bit for FF VI.

Although without a guide in that one, you'd end up missing half the treasures in the game, with all the chests that turn into something else, and sometimes something else again! ;)

Well, my first experience with Final Fantasy was with 10, and while I loved it, I couldn't finish the final boss fight and felt like I had been a little screwed out of the experience because I had missed things or hadn't gotten the uber weapons or whatever. So since then I've played each game with a guide. It's frustrating that I can't just enjoy the games on their own, and I've heard criticisms before that the games seem designed to sell strategy guides. So I'm not really sure how the developers intended those games to be played, but using a guide seems like a better way to play for me.

Stele wrote:

That sounds brutal. Seems like they dialed it back a bit for FF VI.

V was passed over for localization here because of the difficulty level. There was a plan to release it as Final Fantasy Xtreme (seriously) after VI to signify the level of difficulty.

That said, if you take it slow (ie. spend time leveling jobs and not spending much time with the weaker ones) the game isn't really that brutal. VI is a lot easier by comparison because the special abilities on some characters are ridiculously overpowered. I'd rank the DS version of IV as harder than V.

shoptroll wrote:

That said, if you take it slow (ie. spend time leveling jobs and not spending much time with the weaker ones) the game isn't really that brutal. VI is a lot easier by comparison because the special abilities on some characters are ridiculously overpowered. I'd rank the DS version of IV as harder than V.

Like a lot of RPGs, after a certain point there was a significant increase in character power, especially when you combine abilities from different Job classes. Some rare steals were available in treasure chests much later on, so I can see it feeling like a sudden increase in power when you get those. Some jobs only seemed to exist in order to other jobs. For instance, the Bard job on its own wasn't that great in terms of offensive capability and survivability. Same with the Dancer. However, put the Sing ability on a Mage and suddenly you have a highly effective de/buff machine. Still, it seemed like after a short time feeling like a badass, you were thrown into a dungeon with incredibly deadly monsters again. Grinding up levels for would help. I was in the 40's when I beat it, but going higher would help quite a bit with adding more health and MP.

Yeah, the 40's sounds like a low level to be beating a Final Fantasy game. Maybe it's just been long enough since I played and beat FF5, but I can't imagine trying to beat one of those games less than level 50. Then again, I always ground everyone in FF6 to level 60 because that's what a strategy guide told me to do.

I also had a lot more patience for grinding when I was a kid.

ahrezmendi wrote:

Drawing 99 Aura from an enemy and demolishing every boss with repeated limit breaks was quite fun. I know I'm in the minority in liking FF8, but as disjointed as the story was I thought it had some good characters, and the battle system and card mini-game were enough to keep me entertained for a long time. In fact, I recall blowing out a controller port on my PS1 because I played FF8 for so long in a single sitting. Or maybe that was Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance...

I'm with you. I really loved the world and how Square had matured in their design philosophy. I also loved how they decided not just to make another VII and really tried to make something unique out of it. It has many flaws, and I never got over how

Spoiler:

out of no where we find out they all were raised in the same orphanage

, but I adored it for what it was.

My biggest regret was getting to the final boss in VIII and then never actually beating it. Same thing happened in VI. I really need to go back and beat those games.

ccesarano wrote:

Yeah, the 40's sounds like a low level to be beating a Final Fantasy game. Maybe it's just been long enough since I played and beat FF5, but I can't imagine trying to beat one of those games less than level 50. Then again, I always ground everyone in FF6 to level 60 because that's what a strategy guide told me to do.

I also had a lot more patience for grinding when I was a kid.

Job Levels seem overall more important than character level in FFV, as the abilities you gain more than compensate for your level's health and MP. Like I said, high levels help, but the grinding I did (which I don't currently mind doing) was for Jobs, not overall level. In fact, the area I used to grind up Jobs gave no level experience at all.

jamos5 wrote:

It has many flaws, and I never got over how

Spoiler:

out of no where we find out they all were raised in the same orphanage

, but I adored it for what it was.

I tried playing through 8 about five times, and twice I got to that spoiler and just had enough and could not progress further.

Then I found out...

Spoiler:

All the monsters are coming from some laser on the moon

I just don't think I'll ever see the magical "it" that other people did when it comes to that game's story. Unless you go by the "Squall is Dead" interpretation, which I actually would like to replay the game looking at it through that lens.

beanman101283 wrote:

Job Levels seem overall more important than character level in FFV, as the abilities you gain more than compensate for your level's health and MP. Like I said, high levels help, but the grinding I did (which I don't currently mind doing) was for Jobs, not overall level. In fact, the area I used to grind up Jobs gave no level experience at all.

As I said, it's been since about high school since I last played FF5, so I don't recall how all the different parts work. Could be I was around level 40-something as well and just don't remember.

What's the consensus on the DS, et al. remake of III? It has the jobs system but not active time battle, which is a beautiful compromise, but how is the game?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

What's the consensus on the DS, et al. remake of III? It has the jobs system but not active time battle, which is a beautiful compromise, but how is the game?

It's good. Pretty difficult, like V, but I like that it doesn't have ATB as well. Having that in V stressed me out a bit. The 3D is kind of ugly as I recall, but it currently holds my top spot for favorite battle system in the series, of the ones I've played. I had fun playing and experimenting with different Job combinations.

beanman101283 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

Yeah, the 40's sounds like a low level to be beating a Final Fantasy game. Maybe it's just been long enough since I played and beat FF5, but I can't imagine trying to beat one of those games less than level 50. Then again, I always ground everyone in FF6 to level 60 because that's what a strategy guide told me to do.

I also had a lot more patience for grinding when I was a kid.

Job Levels seem overall more important than character level in FFV, as the abilities you gain more than compensate for your level's health and MP. Like I said, high levels help, but the grinding I did (which I don't currently mind doing) was for Jobs, not overall level. In fact, the area I used to grind up Jobs gave no level experience at all.

This is correct. When I first played through on PSOne I really botched utilizing the Job System properly and hadn't really mastered any of the jobs and struggled with the final boss. When I played the game on GBA a couple years ago I did a lot better with managing the job system and breezed right through the final boss. I think the levels for both parties were somewhere between 40 and 50.

At least in the SNES/PSOne era games it really comes down more to understanding and exploiting the skill system for that game than the actual level of your characters.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

What's the consensus on the DS, et al. remake of III? It has the jobs system but not active time battle, which is a beautiful compromise, but how is the game?

It's tough to recommend it. It was one of my first games for the DS, so it got a decent amount of play, and I beat it, but I will probably never go back to it. Whether it would be worth a look for you depends on why you play Final Fantasy games. It's a very polished, pretty, nicely scored, completely soulless game. It has decent mechanics and absolutely no drive to keep going. It has the worst plot and least memorable characters of any Final Fantasy with the possible exception of the first one, (without all of the great world-building and novelty that the first Final Fantasy brought to the table.) I actually felt, despite the hugely improved battle system, that it was a step back from II, because I remember the characters from II but couldn't tell you a thing about the ones from III.

If you enjoy grinding for the sake of grinding, (I sometimes do, it can be very therapeutic to watch numbers go up.) then you can have fun maxing your characters out in each of the classes, but they're just four completely interchangeable palette-swaps, running around after four crystals. The invention of the job mechanic was great, but it's been done better since, and there are so many amazing RPGs on the DS, it seems silly to waste your time on FF III.

It has the worst plot and least memorable characters of any Final Fantasy with the possible exception of the first one

Uh what? Black Mage is legendary.

ccesarano wrote:

Then I found out...

Spoiler:

All the monsters are coming from some laser on the moon

Ha! I'd forgotten about that bit.

I suppose my view of FF difficulty has been altered by having played Shin Megami Tensei, but I don't recall any of the FF games I've played being terribly difficult. IV on DS did give me a few game over screens, but nothing more than that. I have not played V however, so I'll go check that out and see how it compares.

I always find myself grinding to max level in FF games, because I want to unlock all abilities for all characters. That's partly why I never actually beat XII, I got caught up opening up the licenses for every character.

So... any thoughts on Lightning Returns: FF XIII, and the fact that Lightning is getting a boob job and some new physics to go along with it?

Or should I ask in the FF XIII thread?

EDIT: Seems like the screenshot for the article is from one of the alternate DLC costumes. So I guess the clothing DLC for XIII-2 must have sold well?

Square-Enix has been teasing a lot of costume DLC for Lightning Returns. It's not all trashy crap like their nekomata costume, though. There's some other bits of fan service like a Cloud Strife outfit, a Yuna outfit from Final Fantasy X, and some others.

There was a Final Fantasy sale on PSN a few months ago too, that was when I got VII through IX for my Vita. I recall it being lower than $10 each, but I'd have to check my PSN purchase history to be sure.

Hmm... I guess I could reset my PSN password to check out the web store.

Stele wrote:

Probably should try Tactics sometime as I enjoy Fire Emblem and Disgaea. And I really should get around to the PS1/2 ones I missed by not having those systems. If they ever had them for sale on PSN on the PS3 I would probably snatch them up. I know XIII and XIII-2 are cheap now, about $20 sometimes. But I heard such bad things about XIII but better things about 2, but I'm just torn on playing the 2nd without the first. :?

I finally poked around on the PSN web store today. Looks like Tactics, and all the PS1 games (including re-releases of 1/2, IV, and V) are up for sale, and playable on PS3, except for FFVI re-release, which only works on PSP/Vita. $9.99 for each. VIII, and IX are sitting there tempting me.

Not sure which I should get, if I should go in order, or maybe just wait for a PSN sale sometime to grab them all?

I guess even the disc PS1 versions work on the PS3 though, so maybe I should poke around at used prices or something too?

ahrezmendi wrote:

There was a Final Fantasy sale on PSN a few months ago too, that was when I got VII through IX for my Vita. I recall it being lower than $10 each, but I'd have to check my PSN purchase history to be sure.

Hmm... I guess I could reset my PSN password to check out the web store.

Yeah looks like that was in Feb, for the 25th anniversary celebration.

Just before I had signed up for PS+ in March with that deal, and started paying more attention to the weekly announcements. Hmm. Maybe they'll have another sale when the next game releases? Really I should finish the replays of VI and VII that I started before I buy more right?

"Should" is such a terrible, terrible word. I prefer to think of it as an opportunity to relive the VI and VII stories before moving on to the after-supper coffee that is IV and V.

That 25th anniversary sale was a huge deal, I bought IV through IX, and I regret not also buying the PSP versions of I and II. Yet still, Square Enix holds out on the one thing I want more than anything else - Crisis Core on PSN. I will now go weep quietly to myself as I remember my times with Zack.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Square-Enix has been teasing a lot of costume DLC for Lightning Returns. It's not all trashy crap like their nekomata costume, though. There's some other bits of fan service like a Cloud Strife outfit, a Yuna outfit from Final Fantasy X, and some others.

It's also worth pointing out that changing outfits has gameplay ramifications (a la dress spheres from X-2). I'm more bothered by the comments from the game's director than the jiggle physics themselves, although I'm disappointed they decided to add that to the game as well. Although, unless this is something they recently added in a new build I don't think I ever noticed it in the trailers shown to date.

EDIT:

Stele wrote:

Not sure which I should get, if I should go in order, or maybe just wait for a PSN sale sometime to grab them all?

I guess even the disc PS1 versions work on the PS3 though, so maybe I should poke around at used prices or something too? :?

Avoid the PSN/PS1 versions of IV-VI. You're going to hit into loading issues. You're better off grabbing any of the more recent reissues of those games.

shoptroll wrote:
Stele wrote:

Not sure which I should get, if I should go in order, or maybe just wait for a PSN sale sometime to grab them all?

I guess even the disc PS1 versions work on the PS3 though, so maybe I should poke around at used prices or something too? :?

Avoid the PSN/PS1 versions of IV-VI. You're going to hit into loading issues. You're better off grabbing any of the more recent reissues of those games.

Well yeah I already have those on GBA/DS. VIII and IX are really the temptations.. and maybe Tactics? Not sure if the PS1 version or the old GBA version is superior?

Stele wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Stele wrote:

Not sure which I should get, if I should go in order, or maybe just wait for a PSN sale sometime to grab them all?

I guess even the disc PS1 versions work on the PS3 though, so maybe I should poke around at used prices or something too? :?

Avoid the PSN/PS1 versions of IV-VI. You're going to hit into loading issues. You're better off grabbing any of the more recent reissues of those games.

Well yeah I already have those on GBA/DS. VIII and IX are really the temptations.. and maybe Tactics? Not sure if the PS1 version or the old GBA version is superior?

You probably want the PSP or iOS version of Tactics due to the improved localization. The GBA Tactics game is its own thing and isn't a remake.

Stele wrote:

Well yeah I already have those on GBA/DS. VIII and IX are really the temptations.. and maybe Tactics? Not sure if the PS1 version or the old GBA version is superior?

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on GBA is a totally separate game from FFT. I wouldn't bother with the PSOne Classics version of FFT, just get War of the Lions for PSP. It's superior in every way to the original FFT.

The load times on the PSOne versions of V and VI were bad on PSOne itself, but the digital versions are notably better. There's still slight load, but it's really not enough to ruin the game. That said, if you already have the strictly superior GBA versions, then I wouldn't drop $10 each on the PSOne Classics just to have them on Vita. The only reason I bought them was because they were $5 each, and I'll gladly pay $5 for convenience.

EDIT: Ha, removed a "should". Bad!

Hm. No PSP/Vita or iOS device. Well, ok my wife just got an iPad 2 (I think) last week for her birthday. But I don't imagine she's going to let me borrow it for however many hours Tactics would take.

I totally just confused you for DSGamer, my bad. Still, don't bother with the classic FFT, just wait until you can play War of the Lions. You can get a used PSP for pretty cheap and if you're an FF fan (and really, you are if you're in this thread, right?) then I'm confident it'll be worth it.

But I love my PS1 FFT, confounding translation (that at least once gives you incorrect victory conditions) and all. I'll accept that the PSP version is the best, but I'd also say FFT is worth playing in whatever format you can.

Regarding difficulties, I found FFIV to be quite hard at times, mostly because they really don't balance your party all that well. As I recall, wasn't there a lengthy bit where you have 4 mages and only 1 melee?

And for the record, Space Moon Transport Laser ruled.