System Shock 2 coming to GOG.com

Question for those who played SS2 when it came out and Bioshock when it came out. Was the similar twist evident to you in Bioshock or a surprise?

Interesting to note how well the audio diaries age in comparison to the visual elements in the game too. Very solid.

I don't think I'd played far enough in SS2 when Bioshock came out, so yes, I was surprised by the similar plot occurrence. And then I was surprised again in SS2 when I actually did get that far.

troubleshot wrote:

Question for those who played SS2 when it came out and Bioshock when it came out. Was the similar twist evident to you in Bioshock or a surprise?

Interesting to note how well the audio diaries age in comparison to the visual elements in the game too. Very solid.

Yeah, and in my memory System Shock 2 did it better. (I was actually shocked.)

RoutineMachine wrote:
troubleshot wrote:

Question for those who played SS2 when it came out and Bioshock when it came out. Was the similar twist evident to you in Bioshock or a surprise?

Interesting to note how well the audio diaries age in comparison to the visual elements in the game too. Very solid.

Yeah, and in my memory System Shock 2 did it better. (I was actually shocked.)

Would you say that is because that was the story that did it first, or better execution?

Would you say that is because that was the story that did it first, or better execution?

Well, BS certainly loses points for repetition. As for execution; in SS2 it reinforced the horror theme of the game; in BS, it was more of a gag (Fooled you!)

troubleshot wrote:

Question for those who played SS2 when it came out and Bioshock when it came out. Was the similar twist evident to you in Bioshock or a surprise?

The specific nature of the twist was still a surprise, but I was strongly suspecting that there was going to be a twist of some sort around that point. Even allowing for that, I thought SS2 executed it much better. It's not to say that I didn't enjoy the twist in Bioshock, but the SS2 one is still one of my favourite moments in gaming.

That particular plot twist, in SS2, is one of the all-time high points in gaming. In Bioshock, it was just a thing that happened.

Of course, Bioshock had another twist that was also a high point -- probably not quite as cool as SS2's, but pretty darn cool.

SS2's twist had more impact because the game is itself far creepier and just plain harder than Bioshock; Bioshock is a FPS with some phenomenal art design, but SS2 was (and still is) pants-crappingly scary. I mean, between psychic monkeys hooting at you and hybrids shouting "KILL ME" and "babies need lots of meat" . . . by the time I hit the SS2 twist (and I hit it again the other night), I was so on-edge that it utterly freaked me out.

Not that Bioshock wasn't great, but Bioshock was great because the world of Rapture is just so damn beautiful, and it just doesn't have the oppressive gloom of the Von Braun.

Although playing through now, I can see the SS2 twist telegraphed a mile away.

Spoiler:

There's a spot in Hydroponics where "Polito" loses her sh*t for the player taking so long. It kind of comes out of the blue and is "out of character" for Polito as she has been portrayed so far. Having played the game before, I can now see this as SHODAN starting to show her true colors. Although being so gimpy with cybermodules seems like a SHODAN thing to do as well.

I'm trying to remember if

Spoiler:

the 'pandora' logs, or logs about the computer fragment from the citadel station pod were before or after getting to deck 4

Scratched wrote:

I'm trying to remember if

Spoiler:

the 'pandora' logs, or logs about the computer fragment from the citadel station pod were before or after getting to deck 4

There's a relevant log pretty early on in either Medbay or Engineering. Not as explicit as the later ones, though.

Having played SS2 before Bioshock, I have to agree that for the somewhat similar plot twist that both games have, SS2 did it better. The best thing about it is that the clues are all already there, if you were playing attention, if you had more time to think about the odd thing mentioned but were too busy running for your life or figuring out a more immediate puzzle. So when BOOM! the hammer drops, all the little things seeded at the back of your mind suddenly click into place and that's what makes the moment so memorable.

However, in Bioshock, the first plot twist worked so well for me and completely blew my mind, that by the time I got to the other similar to SS2, plot twist it was more like "Ahhh but of course, now it all makes sense...finally I have a real purpose and a real goal again".

What made System Shock 2's twist so interesting is that:

Spoiler:

It effectively puts you on the same side as your enemy. The thing about finding out that Atlus is really Fontaine is that it supplants one villain (Ryan) with another (Fontaine) just as the original villain is disposed of. It's like in an action movie when you find out that the bad guy's sidekick was in charge all along; it's a surprise, but it doesn't generate any tension.

On the contrary, System Shock 2's revelation that Polito is SHODAN generates a lot of tension. You need her help to survive the Many, but in helping yourself, you're also helping her to recover power to the point that she could become a threat to you. It creates an interesting and ongoing dynamic between the player and the villain based on antagonistic cooperation, whereas the dynamic between the player and Fontaine is one of simple antagonism.

Where I think Bioshock's twist becomes less interesting as a storytelling device the more it's examined, System Shock 2's twist remains interesting. That's probably why I tend to not think of it as a twist at all as I tend to associate the word "twist" with a revelation that is mostly dependent on surprise for its effectiveness. Reorienting the player's alliances in System Shock 2 stands as an interesting plot development independent of its ability to surprise.

That's very well-put, ClockworkHouse. Excellent post.

Finished late last night. Felt like saying goodbye to an old friend. Still can't stop wishing the last level was more fleshed out.

So many thoughts on the game, but I haven't been able to order them yet. But I'm so glad this got rereleased.

Demiurge wrote:

Finished late last night. Felt like saying goodbye to an old friend. Still can't stop wishing the last level was more fleshed out.

So many thoughts on the game, but I haven't been able to order them yet. But I'm so glad this got rereleased.

Next up, Ultima Underworlds I/II

Demiurge wrote:

Finished late last night. Felt like saying goodbye to an old friend. Still can't stop wishing the last level was more fleshed out.

So many thoughts on the game, but I haven't been able to order them yet. But I'm so glad this got rereleased.

Please order them and write something up if you can. I enjoy hearing/reading others' thoughts on this game and would greatly appreciate reading yours, as someone who so obviously loves this game a great deal.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

What made System Shock 2's twist so interesting is that:

Spoiler:

It effectively puts you on the same side as your enemy. The thing about finding out that Atlus is really Fontaine is that it supplants one villain (Ryan) with another (Fontaine) just as the original villain is disposed of. It's like in an action movie when you find out that the bad guy's sidekick was in charge all along; it's a surprise, but it doesn't generate any tension.

On the contrary, System Shock 2's revelation that Polito is SHODAN generates a lot of tension. You need her help to survive the Many, but in helping yourself, you're also helping her to recover power to the point that she could become a threat to you. It creates an interesting and ongoing dynamic between the player and the villain based on antagonistic cooperation, whereas the dynamic between the player and Fontaine is one of simple antagonism.

Where I think Bioshock's twist becomes less interesting as a storytelling device the more it's examined, System Shock 2's twist remains interesting. That's probably why I tend to not think of it as a twist at all as I tend to associate the word "twist" with a revelation that is mostly dependent on surprise for its effectiveness. Reorienting the player's alliances in System Shock 2 stands as an interesting plot development independent of its ability to surprise.

Excellent point! Another component of the storytelling aspect of it:

Spoiler:

It also affects the atmosphere of the game by removing your only real connection to another living person, which deepens the sense of isolation that SS2 already does so well.

Demiurge wrote:

Finished late last night. Felt like saying goodbye to an old friend. Still can't stop wishing the last level was more fleshed out.

But it's already the fleshiest thing I've ever seen! (sorry)

Anyway, I'm plugging away on a pure Psi playthrough, and boy have I been missing out playing this game as a melee/hacker only for all these years. Psionics is the way to go. For some reason I always felt like there would be a shortage of Psi hypos, but I've actually been doing all right with them -- though it probably helps that I generally have a good idea of where items are.

Hypos are fairly common, and if need be you can get the hypo boost skill and replicator discount and dump all your nanites into hypos since you don't need them for much else.

Does anyone know how the multiplayer works and if it still does? I never tried it back in the day. Supposedly it works with up to 4 people so a run with a Psi, Navy and Marine characters could be fun.

I'm pretty sure multiplayer is just co-op. It was added a good time after the game was released, so not many people ended up playing it (including me). It should still work, probably with direct connect to someone else's box, so the host will need to tell you his IP. This should help.

I believe 2 player co-op works, but 4 player does not. I can't really recommend it as anything more than a curiosity anyway.

One of the firmware upgrades allows you to do an overhand attack with melee weapons. Does this do any more damage or does it just help you attack things in confined spaces?

I made it to the Rickenbacker and have to confess I've gone ubermensch like the worm I am.

Ok, just picked this up and the System Shock 2 Texture Upgrade (SHTUP) seems to have gone and vanished. What're the most recent mods to run?

I'd go with just this: http://www.systemshock.org/index.php...

And if you do want mods, it sets it all up for that.

5 bucks is a steal for this game. Not going to buy it myself though because I've already beaten the game, don't feel the need to repeat it. It's a lot of fun though!

so far the gameplay is not doing anything for me. Having only one 'weapon' slot makes fighting a pain. Also, lost all my nanites to a reconstruction and will have to start over since I didn't realized and quick saved over it. I'll likely restart and try to pay attention to the doors in the begining, since I didn't realize there was some really tiny text at the edge of the screen explaining what was about to happen just by moving forward -not even requiring interaction. I'll give the game one more chance, but if the pace is gonna be as slow as the crowbar swing, I should probably just quit now.

Things pick up quite a bit as your character gets stronger. You're supposed to feel pretty weak at the beginning.

tagging..

The coop is over what? Internet, Lan or Local ?