Who wants a Tesla charge-all? Well, you can't if you live in VA apparently.

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http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/04...

Any goddamn time a politician talks about creating jobs and reducing regulation I never actually believe them. Now we see why.
If you want to create jobs and reduce regulation, how about you get rid of the stuff that prevents entry from new competition?
I want to drive a f*cking Model S dammit (I would get Roadster, but I want something that will carry the kids I don't currently have).

Would anybody care to explain the reasoning behind making direct car sales illegal?

That's going to end up being great PR for Tesla, and they'll get their license after I bit, I'll bet.

But if they were allowed to sell direct to customers and cut out dealers as the middleman, it would hurt capitalism!

Similarly the US Senate passed a national online sales tax last week. Where's the Tea Party the one time we need them?

Also, please post any Elon Musk audio/videos clips here. I can just salivate at his voice. Could we get him to read audiobooks?

Keithustus wrote:

Similarly the US Senate passed a national online sales tax last week. Where's the Tea Party the one time we need them?

Honestly, I'm sort of okay with this. On the one hand, I'll probably pay more for things. (Pennsylvania ranks 10th in the U.S. on total local/state tax burden counting both sales and income tax together.) On the other, I know that I have not paid my taxes correctly on Internet purchases, because keeping track of them and adding my sales tax by hand is absurd. Every time I look at that field for "Oh hey, you should pay income tax on Internet purchases" I know I haven't done the right thing but I also know that it would take a tremendous amount of work to figure out what I owe on Internet purchases.

This is absolutely something that should be handled at the seller level.

Urgh ... One of the marketing links on the original link was from Ford... Irony ?

RolandofGilead wrote:

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/04/23/tesla-denied-dealer-license-in-s...

Any goddamn time a politician talks about creating jobs and reducing regulation I never actually believe them. Now we see why.
If you want to create jobs and reduce regulation, how about you get rid of the stuff that prevents entry from new competition?
I want to drive a f*cking Model S dammit (I would get Roadster, but I want something that will carry the kids I don't currently have).

Would anybody care to explain the reasoning behind making direct car sales illegal?

I take it you are upset about this?

I doubt Tesla has to clout to change this. The sales structure in the US when it comes to the sale of finished goods, alcohol, cars is insane. The distributor and dealer model is insane, it even was 100 years ago.

The laws and models date back to a 19th century concept of commerce, and interstate trade. By making the sale, of automobiles local, they could easily skirt all sorts of federal regulations, and even anti-trust laws.

I sat in one of the Teslas in their showroom in White Plains. It is easily the sexiest car I've ever seen in my life. Nothing coherent to add to the main dealer/no dealer argument except to say that I hate the experience of buying cars through dealers.

Hypatian wrote:
Keithustus wrote:

Similarly the US Senate passed a national online sales tax last week. Where's the Tea Party the one time we need them?

Honestly, I'm sort of okay with this. On the one hand, I'll probably pay more for things. (Pennsylvania ranks 10th in the U.S. on total local/state tax burden counting both sales and income tax together.) On the other, I know that I have not paid my taxes correctly on Internet purchases, because keeping track of them and adding my sales tax by hand is absurd. Every time I look at that field for "Oh hey, you should pay income tax on Internet purchases" I know I haven't done the right thing but I also know that it would take a tremendous amount of work to figure out what I owe on Internet purchases.

This is absolutely something that should be handled at the seller level.

They didn't actually pass a "national online sales tax" at all, did they? Isn't it just forcing online sellers to collect existing state sales taxes?

Hypatian wrote:

This is absolutely something that should be handled at the seller level.

Sales taxes are something that should not be handled on any level.

Well, yeah, since sales tax is regressive by definition, it would be far preferable for everything to be handled via income tax which can be made progressive. But good luck getting everybody to switch over.

Tanglebones wrote:

I sat in one of the Teslas in their showroom in White Plains. It is easily the sexiest car I've ever seen in my life. Nothing coherent to add to the main dealer/no dealer argument except to say that I hate the experience of buying cars through dealers.

The owner of the Microsoft bootcamp i went to in March owned the model S...

Part of what I am getting on about:

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/weekly...

IMAGE(http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/beer_2013_small.png)

Something that is particularly interesting, the states that tend to brag on about not having a sales or an income tax, often will have quite high excise taxes-taxes on liquor, fuel, tires, etc.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/ann...

State and local tax burdens are going up, in fact, not down. And I am not seeing that discussed much as a relation to national economic growth.

IMAGE(http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/burdens_2010_small.png)

With respect to state tax policy, I wonder which people think is in fact more fair?

Yay! We're #1! Take that, Taxachusetts!

Michigan had some major tax increases, especially to the elderly, pass in our GOP controlled house since Snyder was elected. I have to assume our burden is much higher than the 2010 number quoted there.

CarsDirect tried the same thing 15 years ago and hit the same rent seeking scumbags. Tesla's one advantage over CarsDirect is that they are producing and selling their own product rather than trying to resell someone else's. The fact that it's a product that tends to generate a disproportionate amount of publicity helps too.

To the article:

Legislation requires any car dealership to be an independent franchise and not a corporate-owned store.

What people in Virginia need to ask is what makes Ford, Tesla, and Honda different from companies like Wal-Mart and Starbucks which do not franchise.

I think Tesla has a valid Dormant Commerce Clause argument to make against Virginia-the idea of state laws interfering with the flow of goods and services nationally. This seems very much like the type of law that a state might pass to predate upon corporations in another state. As do many of the business taxation, registration, and licensing laws I have come across.

Legislation requires any car dealership to be an independent franchise and not a corporate-owned store.

So that every car costs more?

Demosthenes wrote:
Legislation requires any car dealership to be an independent franchise and not a corporate-owned store.

So that every car costs more?

To feed the monopolists and oligopolists. How cars worked 100 years ago is a lot like how cell phones and ISPs work now. The states from the latter 19th into the early 20th century were very keen to assist monopolists and oligopolists in getting a lot of power.

I believe the impetus, to create a multi level system to develop new infrastructure and technology is sound. But just as in internet tech, these ancient laws are standing in the way of new products and progress; and serving to keep the old and stationary dogs well fed.

And that is the thing, these laws make sense in 1915, 1920 when states and cities had to figure out the best way to become part of driving culture-how to get dealers, mechanics, and fill stations established, just like the laws governing cable television make sense in 1975.

Speaking of Tesla.. I think they are a beautiful car and I wish I had one. Too bad my salary won't let me...

I saw one last Sunday.. at the local Costco.. the guy who owned it was showing off the front trunk.

Then I saw one on Friday driving on the freeway when I was going towards LA.

Then today at lunch I saw two of them while walking downtown. I saw a lady who was in the car behind one of the Tesla's taking a picture of it.

They are becoming ubiquitous in California.

Next up: North Carolina.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/...

So, basic question. Say I go to California and buy one and drive it back home to some state that doesn't have, I don't know, a lot of car-charging stations or whatever. Do I need to install some freakin expensive thing at my house and can only drive in a tiny radius (to me: less than 300 miles roundtrip?) since I don't know where to recharge? Sorry for something you all likely know, but I normally don't start paying attention to a technology until it reaches critical price-point mass. (E.g. my first cell phone: 2003)

The Consumer Reports video says you have to buy the charging station separate but if you have an 240v outlet, you can probably get away with it.

The car should have an app that tells you how far away from the closest station and then navigate you there.

There are three kinds of ways to recharge them.

Super Chargers
Any 240v outlet
Public charging station with an J1772 Adapter.

http://www.teslamotors.com/charging#...

A 150 mile commute? You my friend live a much different life than most purchasers of electric and luxury sports cars.

Maybe if we invented a tobacco powered car Virginia would approve that.

nel e nel wrote:

Maybe if we invented a tobacco powered car Virginia would approve that.

*spit take*

nel e nel wrote:

Maybe if we invented a tobacco powered car Virginia would approve that.

Virginia is Fossil country too.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
nel e nel wrote:

Maybe if we invented a tobacco powered car Virginia would approve that.

*spit take*

*lands in spitoon*

Seth wrote:

A 150 mile commute? You my friend live a much different life than most purchasers of electric and luxury sports cars. :)

No, just semi frequent road trips, which is exactly why I want a car with great performance stats in the first place.

Keithustus wrote:
Seth wrote:

A 150 mile commute? You my friend live a much different life than most purchasers of electric and luxury sports cars. :)

No, just semi frequent road trips, which is exactly why I want a car with great performance stats in the first place.

Judging by its current success, there'll probably be a push to add more charging stations throughout the country. It's still not as convenient for 200+ mile trips as a gas-based car yet, but it'll be interesting to see where they are after another iteration or two of battery design.

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