Monaco Catch-All / Don't-Get-Caught-All

Got it. Played it. Love it. I'm not far, and clearly in need of much practice, but I'm having a blast. It's frantic, it's pretty, it's slick and stylish, and I just want to absorb as much of this game as I can.

Got to sneak in two levels just now. Too early to say much, but it's too bad that the menu system isn't friendlier to keyboard/mouse.

Pro-tip: Don't blow up your escape vehicle with dynamite.

mr_n00b wrote:

Pro-tip: Don't blow up your escape vehicle with dynamite.

Yeah, blowing up the getaway vehicle is always hilarious in a "heist gone wrong" sort of way.

That reminds me though, it's totally worthwhile to use the C-4 to blow up the power generator, since that will keep most of the automated security systems offline for the rest of the mission.

Itsatrap wrote:

That reminds me though, it's totally worthwhile to use the C-4 to blow up the power generator, since that will keep most of the automated security systems offline for the rest of the mission.

I never even thought of that!

What's everyone's favourite character? I'm partial to The Gentleman or Redhead myself.

I'm only 3 levels in, but so far I really like The Cleaner. I don't know yet if it's even necessary to knock dudes out at all, but it's damn fun.

Cory and I took a crack at Monaco. It went ... ok.

Nicholaas wrote:

I'm only 3 levels in, but so far I really like The Cleaner. I don't know yet if it's even necessary to knock dudes out at all, but it's damn fun.

It's definitely satisfying. I also had fun making sure the paths to the exits are relatively quiet tonight.

Managed to put myself to shame playing with boogle et al, been playing with randoms since... I'm sure it's only because I'm in the wrong time zone
So far it's been really good even teaming up with strangers, everybody has been helpful and civilized. Guess it's not the kind of game that attracts jerks.

As for personal favourites... Gentleman for SP, for MP I think this is the best team (in order of importance):

1- Lookout
2- Hacker
3- Locksmith
4- Pickpocket
(5- Cleaner)

Gentleman seems to be of little use to a group, Redhead's ability is a bit too random to be useful, Mole makes too much noise and when you really need to break through a wall HE FRIGGIN' DOESN'T.

My two cents, what do you guys reckon?

Certis wrote:

Cory and I took a crack at Monaco. It went ... ok.

I've put a decent number of hours into the game, and it pains me to watch you fumble around like a pair of buffoons. You're essentially trying to play Thief with the "sprint" key held down. To be fair, it isn't entirely your fault; the game rules are complex and not well explained. For example, visibility is governed by distance and movement speed (which also makes you noisy).

il dottore wrote:

Managed to put myself to shame playing with boogle et al, been playing with randoms since... I'm sure it's only because I'm in the wrong time zone
So far it's been really good even teaming up with strangers, everybody has been helpful and civilized. Guess it's not the kind of game that attracts jerks.

As for personal favourites... Gentleman for SP, for MP I think this is the best team (in order of importance):

1- Lookout
2- Hacker
3- Locksmith
4- Pickpocket
(5- Cleaner)

Gentleman seems to be of little use to a group, Redhead's ability is a bit too random to be useful, Mole makes too much noise and when you really need to break through a wall HE FRIGGIN' DOESN'T.

My two cents, what do you guys reckon?

I couldn't disagree more! The Redhead is a great character, not only does she have the fastest healing ability but she also acts as a surrogate Locksmith and Hacker when she's swooned an NPC. And the Gentleman is surprisingly useful in a group, grabbing gold and reviving teammates in otherwise hostile areas is a must in later levels.

I would agree with you about the Mole though, he's only useful in a couple levels so he's best to be avoided in most instances.

After last night's multiplayer session I think the mole is best summed up in one word: shenanigans. I forget who said that was their plan with him on the hospital level.

mr_n00b wrote:

The Redhead is a great character, not only does she have the fastest healing ability but she also acts as a surrogate Locksmith and Hacker when she's swooned an NPC.

Do characters have different healing speeds?! Man I'm so ignorant... I'll give her another shot!

mr_n00b wrote:

And the Gentleman is surprisingly useful in a group, grabbing gold and reviving teammates in otherwise hostile areas is a must in later levels.

I thought about that too, but I his disguise depletes very quickly so I found it really hard to manage when I played with others. But then again I suck. The Pickpocket does a better job at picking up hard to reach coins, but I guess that's kinda his job

Apart from the Redhead's speed boost to healing, the Lookout's speed boost to using ladders and windows often goes overlooked.

I haven't gotten to try this yet, but I bet that Redhead would work well paired with the Cleaner -- she snares them, he smacks them. You couldn't clear out a crowded room this way because of the limited duration of the knock-out, but it might let the Cleaner operate more safely in some scenarios.

I'm only about six minutes into Certis' video and I'm already cringing. I'm hoping it gets better, but from the start it has a vibe of "I didn't understand it right away so it's not any good" -- to be perfectly blunt.

il dottore wrote:

]I thought about that too, but I his disguise depletes very quickly so I found it really hard to manage when I played with others. But then again I suck. The Pickpocket does a better job at picking up hard to reach coins, but I guess that's kinda his job :)

The Gentleman isn't about getting coins, he's about scouting and getting to areas past a guard that is looking his way. Yes, his disguise runs out relatively quickly (Though if you are sneaking and not that close to the guard it does last quite a while), but the key is you just have to break line of sight for 3 seconds and it's back to full.

I played a 4 player game with some Goodjers a couple nights ago and I think they'd agree that the Gentleman is much more effective than he first appears. The number of times I was able to get somewhere to revive a teammate that nobody else could because of my disguise wasn't trivial.

Cyranix wrote:

I haven't gotten to try this yet, but I bet that Redhead would work well paired with the Cleaner -- she snares them, he smacks them. You couldn't clear out a crowded room this way because of the limited duration of the knock-out, but it might let the Cleaner operate more safely in some scenarios.

I still suspect the Cleaner's knock-out generates just enough noise that it makes hitting two adjacent targets really risky. Or at least risky enough that going guard->dog is incredibly hard to pull off. Was also having a bit of trouble last night knocking out the civilians in the hospital last night. I think as soon as the ? starts to turn red the Cleaner can't touch them.

Itsatrap wrote:
Certis wrote:

Cory and I took a crack at Monaco. It went ... ok.

I've put a decent number of hours into the game, and it pains me to watch you fumble around like a pair of buffoons.

Well, gee. Thanks for watching?

Demiurge wrote:
Itsatrap wrote:
Certis wrote:

Cory and I took a crack at Monaco. It went ... ok.

I've put a decent number of hours into the game, and it pains me to watch you fumble around like a pair of buffoons.

Well, gee. Thanks for watching?

heh, don't take it too hard Corey. You've played a fair amount of Dark Souls now, imagine watching someone playing it new with no idea what's going on. It's going to be frustrating for you, and doubly so if they're talking about how much it sucks because they're not "feeling it".

Valmorian wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
Itsatrap wrote:
Certis wrote:

Cory and I took a crack at Monaco. It went ... ok.

I've put a decent number of hours into the game, and it pains me to watch you fumble around like a pair of buffoons.

Well, gee. Thanks for watching?

heh, don't take it too hard Corey. You've played a fair amount of Dark Souls now, imagine watching someone playing it new with no idea what's going on. It's going to be frustrating for you, and doubly so if they're talking about how much it sucks because they're not "feeling it".

You're right, of course. I expected corrections and tips from GWJ, and certainly a lot of flack for not liking a game everyone digs right now. But that's the third comment I've read from Alan, and it comes off harsh.

This is probably one of those Flower things where, while everyone else finds what they want, I won't. I'm okay with that, and I'm glad Monaco's proving to be successful. I suspect it's just not for me.

Thanks for watching, everyone!

Demiurge wrote:

This is probably one of those Flower things where, while everyone else finds what they want, I won't. I'm okay with that, and I'm glad Monaco's proving to be successful. I suspect it's just not for me.

This set of notes was posted on Monaco's Facebook page a couple weeks ago. I think they anticipated people to bouncing off it. That's ok though!

Will definitely watch the video tonight

Demiurge wrote:

This is probably one of those Flower things where, while everyone else finds what they want, I won't. I'm okay with that, and I'm glad Monaco's proving to be successful. I suspect it's just not for me.

The thing is, while watching that video and hearing you talk about wanting it to be a stealth game, I think the game COULD be for you. The problem is that you need to be a) playing the right character and b) have a good grasp of the stealth mechanics.

I've found that in the later levels, getting through an area stealthily is INCREDIBLY hard but also extremely satisfying when you do it.

Demiurge wrote:

You're right, of course. I expected corrections and tips from GWJ, and certainly a lot of flack for not liking a game everyone digs right now. But that's the third comment I've read from Alan, and it comes off harsh.

Sorry about the harshness, but my perception is that you're slamming the game based on a mismatch between your expectations and the way you're playing the game. At one level, that's completely valid; the game is very unforgiving for new players. However, at another level, you end up blaming the game for your own misunderstanding of the rules, and that seems disingenuous. I have no issue if you say the game is not for you personally. However, saying that "Monaco isn't for anybody who like stealth games"? Now *that's* harsh.

At about 13 minutes into the video it seems like the mix of stealth and speed is either not up ya'lls alley or you just haven't grokked it yet.
Dunno. If you're interested I'm going to be playing tonight and will throw some invites out.
*EDIT*
Nope, that felt real complainy.
Re: disguises its a radial meter around your character that is dark when you are unseen and light when you are being seen (and the disguise is being used).

Hey, we were up front about where we were at when we started. That was a direct feed of what a first blush of what Monaco felt like to two dudes who have been playing video games since they were toddlers.

I'm sure it's great once you "figure it out" but the developer clearly screwed up the new player experience and that's what you're seeing here. You guys just get to enjoy what's normally a thought process my brain churns through during a new game. Is it complainy? Sure. But hey, they made a game that merits it. I don't mind the philosophy outlined on their Facebook page but they're taking a risk (much like Dark Souls and the like) in assuming what they've made is intriguing enough to deserve the largely unnecessary struggle. In the first few hours I'm not feeling like it made a strong case. As a player with limited time I don't know if I want to continue slogging before the fun kicks in.

Certis wrote:

I'm sure it's great once you "figure it out" but the developer clearly screwed up the new player experience and that's what you're seeing here.

To be fair though, my new player experience with Monaco was stellar. I enjoyed it right away, and after actually reading all the text on the screen (which pretty explicitly outlines a lot of how the game works) even the more subtle points seemed quite crystal clear to me.

I'm especially baffled at how people didn't understand the question mark stealth mechanics. They seemed to be SO straightforward and elegant to me...

I dunno. I'm about 4-5 levels in, and I've been finding that I'm pretty much able to figure things out well on my own. You definitely do have to do a fair bit of careful observation of what the game's showing you, but everything's there. It might be that since I've only been playing solo, I'm better able to figure out what's going on without worrying about other players.

For example, in the video, you guys were talking about not being able to peek around corners. What I've been doing (when not using the lookout) is stopping at corners and watching for the cone of a flashlight. If you don't see one, you should be okay, cuz the guards' cone of vision is more or less limited to that cone.

I desperately want to be able to play Yakkity Sax when you're in RUN AWAY RUN AWAY mode.

Am I the only person playing with a gamepad on PC?

Chaz wrote:

For example, in the video, you guys were talking about not being able to peek around corners. What I've been doing (when not using the lookout) is stopping at corners and watching for the cone of a flashlight. If you don't see one, you should be okay, cuz the guards' cone of vision is more or less limited to that cone.

Even then you should be able to peek out and immediately drop back around the corner without getting too much heat. Exception being if you step right in front of a guard's face, but the aforementioned flashlight cue should let you avoid that from happening.

I think that's the thing with this game... there's a lot of subtle things going on. Like last night discovering you leave a blood trail when you're injured and not-sneaking which guards (and dogs) will pick up on. But because there's so many subtle things it's really hard to miss them due to the chaos and the fact the game is really zoomed out (which I think makes it harder to play on the couch at 1080p). Which is probably why the game is fairly lenient with allowing you to get away from the guards.

I'm playing on a keyboard because I'm only playing at work, and don't have a controller. I think it might work better or at least as well with a controller. The front menus are really made for a controller, the keyboard's kinda clunky there.

I wonder how much of the confusion is that over years of playing games with guards and having to avoid them, we've learned that guards spot you instantly. In Metal Gear, Splinter Cell, Thief, etc, if you stray into a guard's line of sight at all, you're spotted. Here, things are much more forgiving. If you're very close, their ? will fill up almost instantly, and yeah, you're spotted. If you're farther away, you've got a lot more time to either get out of LoS, or at least move away from your last position, which the game helpfully denotes by dropping an ! there.

I'm not sure how you guys missed the giant arrows on the map pointing you to the main vault in the bank level though.

mr_n00b wrote:
psoplayer wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

What does Y do?

While holding it you will see what your teammates are seeing as well as your own vision (the same thing you get if you were playing local coop). Without it you just see your teammates wandering around in "fog of war" without any extra info from their positioning. I'm baffled that the default is to leave it off.

At the very least it should be a toggle.

I'm an idiot. It doesn't toggle if you hold the button down (which I've been doing). If you just press it momentarily it does toggle. *sigh*

On the bright side, the cramping in my hands has finally begun to subside.

Demiurge wrote:

But that's the third comment I've read from Alan, and it comes off harsh.

Also, keep in mind you compared this game to Hunted: The Demon's Forge.

You also complained that you couldn't shake guards by running away from them, even when you made no effort to hide at all after breaking line of sight, and rarely sneaked. This really was a case of being angry at the game for not being a stealth game when no effort was really made to be stealthy.

It's downright AGONIZING to hear someone say that the stealth in Monaco is bad when you have just finished a series of stealth runs through the first 6-7 missions. If someone says that "Dark Souls combat is really bad" when they're just starting out you'd be justly annoyed at them.

Monaco currently stands as my Game of The Year. It perfectly blends time running, stealth, planning, cooperation and managing chaotic situations in a way I've NEVER seen another game do.

As an example: A couple nights ago I was running through one of the levels when we got massacred at the third floor. We restarted and had trouble at floor 2, but squeeked out into the third floor again. Everyone seemed to be dreading it. Then something clicked and all four of us worked as a well-oiled machine:
The Pickpocket was slinking through narrow areas while his monkey grabbed coins being watched by tons of security.
The Locksmith was picking locks just before we needed to get through to avoid a guard.
The Cleaner twice knocked out a guard just before he was about to set off an alarm while the locksmith was cracking the safe.
And I, as the Gentleman, managed to walk right past several guards to disable the power just in time for everyone to hightail it to the exit.

It was quick, smooth, and you could almost feel the elation as we pulled off what felt to be like the perfect heist.

Play it some more, you'll get there. There is real GENIUS in this game, if you take the time to find it.