NFL 2012-2013 Post-Super Bowl Offseason Thread

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NFL.com is doing team-by-team best and worst draft picks in franchise history.

They just did Tampa's list, with Bo Jackson at the top of the worst pick list (hard to argue that - you screw a guy out of his final year of baseball eligibility, he tells you he won't play for you, and you pick him anyway #1 overall?).

Interestingly, one of Tampa's two true-Buc Hall of Famers, Lee Roy Selmon, doesn't make the list. I would definitely argue him over John Lynch on a pure player-vs-player comparison, but Lynch is bolstered on this list for being a 3rd round selection.

Could argue Selmon over Paul Gruber, but I don't have the heart to argue an offensive linemen out of recognition.

*Legion* wrote:

NFL.com is doing team-by-team best and worst draft picks in franchise history.

They just did Tampa's list, with Bo Jackson at the top of the worst pick list (hard to argue that - you screw a guy out of his final year of baseball eligibility, he tells you he won't play for you, and you pick him anyway #1 overall?).

Interestingly, one of Tampa's two true-Buc Hall of Famers, Lee Roy Selmon, doesn't make the list. I would definitely argue him over John Lynch on a pure player-vs-player comparison, but Lynch is bolstered on this list for being a 3rd round selection.

Could argue Selmon over Paul Gruber, but I don't have the heart to argue an offensive linemen out of recognition.

Not shockingly, I saw that list, and Gruber over Selmon . . . no. Lynch certainly belongs based on draft position, but the thing that gets me is Warren Sapp (#12 overall in 1995) is beating Derrick Brooks (#28 overall in 1995). Sapp was an utterly great player, but Brooks was drafted lower and was simply a far better player, and I with really not much homerism think he's one of the singly best 4-3 OLBs to ever play the game. Drives me nuts. When ESPN did their all-decade team, the only two players to be voted unanimously were Brooks and Ray Lewis, and Brooks showed up on the "Best 100 Players Ever" list on the NFL Network (at #99, yes, too low).

Also, while we're on bad drafts, how's this stretch--that's year, round, overall position, and sad, sad history. Eight top-seven picks in nine years, and, outside of Gruber and Vinny once he left town, just godawful. The next year after this? Sapp and Brooks, both in the first round.

1994 1 6 Trent Dilfer QB
1993 1 6 Eric Curry DE
1991 1 7 Charles McRae T
1990 1 4 Keith McCants DE
1989 1 6 Broderick Thomas LB
1988 1 4 Paul Gruber T
1987 1 1 Vinny Testaverde QB
1986 1 1 Bo Jackson RB

How many GMs were involved in those picks cause that blows?

garion333 wrote:

How many GMs were involved in those picks cause that blows?

The answer is almost: None.

The Bucs had no general manager from the team's inception up until 1991, in which Phil Krueger was hired to be GM. Krueger resigned after one season, when the team was pursuing Bill Parcells with an offer of complete control. Parcells did not accept, and the team continued with no GM until hiring Rich McKay near the end of the 1994 season, after the death of Hugh Culverhouse. (The team was sold to the Glazers in January 1995).

McKay's first draft was the 1995 draft, trading down in the 1st to select Warren Sapp and acquire a 2nd round pick, and trading both 2nd round picks to get back into round 1 and select Derrick Brooks.

The people that were making the draft calls in the absence of a GM were the head coaches, and sh*tty owner Hugh Culverhouse. The coaches in that span were Leeman Bennett (85-86), Ray Perkins (87-90), Richard Williamson (90-91), and Sam Wyche (92-95).

The equivalent to those Hugh Culverhouse-owned Bucs teams would be something like the L.A. Clippers for years, or the Bengals for much of the past few decades; they were marginally "professional" sports organizations that largely existed to spend at a marginal level, and make as much money as possible for the owners. The Bucs were awful because they didn't have a GM, didn't hire real football people, though hiring scouts was extraneous, and continuously drafted the wrong people because they never bothered to learn from their mistakes. They were as bad as their record indicated, and this is a team that had double-digit losses for twelve years in a row. It's a case study in how not to run a franchise. Bucs fans love to pile on the Glazers as being bad owners, but they're Robert Kraft, Jerry Buss, and every other successful owner rolled into one in comparison.

McKay's drafts in later years were really pretty awful; he and Gruden were simply terrible for the later years, but that 1995 draft is one for the ages. Think I've run through this before here, but that was the draft where McKay turned Mike Mamula into Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. Mamula was the first Combine wonder, a guy who killed in drills, and went from being a nice prospect to the "must have" guy. Tampa was at #7 that year, Philly was #12; Philly traded their pick plus two seconds to jump up for Mamula. Sapp was still there at #12 (I can still hear my Vikings fan friend I was watching the draft with swearing that they passed on Sapp one pick before). Later in the first round, McKay traded both those second-rounders to get back into the bottom of the first round to take Derrick Brooks at #28. So, he turned Mike Mamula into two Hall of Famers, and what I honestly think may be the best first round in draft history.

Edit: Haha! I'm Legionizing (editing hours after the last post, to make you think there was something new, but it's just a re-hash, also, ha, and/or ha).

Football Outsiders has been running statistical analysis of past drafts, and, as somebody mentioned Mamula in that thread, I asked about Tampa's 1995 draft, and math proves it's the best first round ever. So, like, woo and all.

You need two more edits before joining the lofty ranks of Legion editing.

Edit: I'm curious how the Ravens draft of Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis stacks up.

garion333 wrote:

You need two more edits before joining the lofty ranks of Legion editing.

Also, you can't say "Edit: " until you've done at least 3 ninja edits beforehand.

Left work early this morning and caught a pair of Panthers, LT Jordan Gross and WR Steve Smith, on sports talk out of Charlotte. Some stuff they said (in no particular order):

* One of the hosts laid out a few DTs/DEs and a WR that the Panthers are reportedly eyeing and asked who they would pick. Both passed. Never draft for need, they said. Instead, pick the best player you can get. Smith said drafting for need can mess up a rookie. Smith called out DE Everette Brown, whom Carolina cut after two bad seasons.

* Gross said he had a copy of the Wonderlic. In fact, his agency had several versions of it that players could study if they wanted.

* Gross said when he interviewed with the Browns at the combine, he walked into a dark room. The only light was a stoplight aimed at the player. He called it an interrogation. He still seems creeped out by it.

* Smith said the Giants gave him a 100-question test at the Senior Bowl (or one of the senior events). He said he walked out after about 20 questions.

* Gross said he hopes the Panthers pick up a tackle sometime soon. He'd love to have a year or two to teach that guy how to play LT rather than throw him in there as a rookie. I expected him to mention the Panthers' LG, their second round pick last year, but he didn't.

* Gross said he and Newton don't talk a whole lot. (I can't remember why; in any case, dealing with Newton seems to be Smith's job.) He said Newton has a lot of power in Charlotte because of who he is (i.e., the city's starting NFL QB) and that he hopes Newton can realize and use that power sometime soon. He wasn't exactly calling him out here -- I took it more as an observation from a guy who has been in Charlotte for the past decade.

* Gross said that when Carolina started to use some read-option and QB run plays, he was watching tape of Oregon because no one else in the league was running those sets. Now he said he's getting calls from other OLs wondering how he blocks on certain plays against certain D schemes.

I know there's not a lot of Carolina Panthers love out there (and there's not all that much in Carolina, really) but those are two pretty smart and thoughtful guys who usually have something interesting to say.

Don't know if this belongs in the NCAA thread or NFL thread.

Top 10 colleges whose draftees offer the best pro value.

1. LSU
2. Pittsburgh
3. Miami
4. Georgia
5. Virginia
6. UCLA
7. Purdue
8. Louisville
9. Georgia Tech
10. Texas A&M

...

It seems that schools with the greatest number of players selected did not fare very well in these rankings. In fact, nine of the top 10 in terms of total selections did not make the top 10 in terms of value, with only Miami making the cut.

Interesting stuff.

Enix wrote:

I know there's not a lot of Carolina Panthers love out there (and there's not all that much in Carolina, really) but those are two pretty smart and thoughtful guys who usually have something interesting to say.

Thanks for posting that, it was an interesting read, and probably not something I would have seen pop up anywhere else.

* Gross said he had a copy of the Wonderlic. In fact, his agency had several versions of it that players could study if they wanted.

I took the Wonderlic as part of a job interview before. I was never told what I scored, but I got through 42 of the 50 questions. I didn't find it any more challenging than the SAT. I wish I had a copy to work through in advance though.

This draft will should have the lowest drafted first round of QBs since 2000, in which the Jets took Chad Pennington with pick #18, and then the next QBs taken were Giovanni Carmazzi and Chris Redman in round 2. That draft, of course, is legendary for its QB badness until getting down to Tom Brady in round 6.

I expect some of the 2nd round names in this draft will handily outperform Carmazzi, but there's not a single QB in this draft that I would give a 1st round grade to. Someone is going to reach for Geno Smith though. It's not going to be like 1996-97, where no QB was taken in round 1 in 96, and only Jim Druckenmiller was taken in 97, near the end of the round.

Of course, some teams may start jumping back up into round 1 to take some of these 2nd round QBs.

Are we talking schedules here? Cause my o my I don`t like the Packers.

Atlanta and SF are the 2 games to fill out the schedule. Open the season to SF away. Bye week 4. yuck.

The Texans are part of the opening week Monday Night double-header, and will take on the Chargers. Should be a pretty easy win, right, Stric9?

At the moment, I don't feel like there quite as many showcase nighttime games as last year, but not bad. That's our only Monday Night Football, for example.

The 49ers are playing in Tampa Bay in Dec! I get to go watch my team!

Home opener against the 49ers! Primetime TV! I feel vindicated for keeping my season tickets through awful Tim Ruskell drafts and that agonizing season of Jim Mora Jr.

September can't get here fast enough!

Interesting tidbit on twitter from ESPN today:

Today is the 20th anniversary of Joe Montana being traded to Chiefs. Montana is last KC QB with playoff win.

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