Windows 8

Thin_J wrote:
Rezzy wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:

Win-[Left|Right]Arrow

AAAAAAHHHHH! Why didn't I.... how... AAAAAAAHHHH! I'm not at my dock to try this but... AAAAHHHHH!

Yeah, I've looked into Win8 shortcuts for stuff like Win+X and some others, but I did not know about that.

Me too. And a google/bing search didn't find anything obvious.

wonderful discovery! WOOT!

That shortcut was introduced in Win7...

Here is a new list from Win8.

It's a slippery slope what Apple is doing. But if people don't like it so much. You can jailbreak it and put it on anyway, or move over to Android.
But you know (or should inform yourself really) what you start when you go with Apple. The good and the bad.

I can't help thinking that needs it's own thread, seeing as it affects more than one OS.

I saw a rumour on the internet a few days ago that Win9 would be a 2 year turn around, aiming for Nov 2014.

From a gaming standpoint will moving from 7x64 home premium to 8 break anything(drivers, dx, etc)?

krev82 wrote:

From a gaming standpoint will moving from 7x64 home premium to 8 break anything(drivers, dx, etc)?

It didn't for me, very smooth.

krev82 wrote:

From a gaming standpoint will moving from 7x64 home premium to 8 break anything(drivers, dx, etc)?

No compatibility issues here either. Definitely the easiest and most laid back OS install I've ever done.

I had some trouble with L.A. Noire crashing on launch, but reinstalling a standalone version of the Social Club fixed it. Every other game I own works perfectly.

I've seen a few posts around with occasional W8 (technical) problems, but I don't think it's much more than any other version.

It's nice that an OS upgrade is nice and smooth now, but I wonder how long before they decide "hey, we need to make major kernel changes", and if they even can do that any more without people throwing in the windows towel. The landscape is different now than it was around 2006.

Scratched wrote:

I've seen a few posts around with occasional W8 (technical) problems, but I don't think it's much more than any other version.

It's nice that an OS upgrade is nice and smooth now, but I wonder how long before they decide "hey, we need to make major kernel changes", and if they even can do that any more without people throwing in the windows towel. The landscape is different now than it was around 2006.

All signs point to them moving to an OS subscription model like Office 365, where you pay a smaller amount for ongoing updates. Windows Blue should get more detailed announcements before long it sounds like, but the unofficial talk is an update for Win 8 this summer sometime.

I'm not sure on "Blue", I halfway imagine it to be a super service-pack, or Win8 OSR2. Without details, who knows.

As far as how to sell it, they're kind of painted into a corner I think, especially since windows is what I'd call 'stable'.

Scratched wrote:

As far as how to sell it, they're kind of painted into a corner I think, especially since windows is what I'd call 'stable'.

Indeed, I like stable. I paid for stable (so do their corporate clients). I don't like stuff breaking. Stability is a platform-feature, not an OS feature.

Mary Jo Foley is also reporting that the start button may be coming back as well.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...

While personally I think it's a good step to provide the option to users, MS is going to now be taken to task for not being confident in its vision and whatnot.

They may very well need to move away from the "Windows 8" name altogether and treat it like the next Vista.

We demand innovation!!!!
We fear change!!

And so it goes...

I think one mistake they did make was launching the ARM version with a desktop environment. Seems it was just to be able to say they had Office, which wasn't available in Metro versions, yet. Seems that version should have been delayed until Office had been Metrofied.

MannishBoy wrote:

I think one mistake they did make was launching the ARM version with a desktop environment. Seems it was just to be able to say they had Office, which wasn't available in Metro versions, yet. Seems that version should have been delayed until Office had been Metrofied.

Yup, it was all because of Office. They should have went with a pure touch-interface (maybe based on Windows Phone OS) instead of what they shipped.

They need to (somehow!) come up with a seamless and intelligent way of switching between mouse/keyboard and touch interfaces. Booting to desktop mode is a good idea, but what about when you want to undock and go touch? You need a quick way of initiating that. Perhaps the hardware Windows button on devices would always invoke the Modern app launcher?

I had thought way back in the day that Windows 8 applications would be a single app with two seperate user interfaces. Therefore, regardless of what mode you were in, the app would still function and you would also be able to snap between ui's on the fly. That way, you could be using Word in touch mode, and when you docked your device, it would snap into full-on desktop mode with your doc still open. Maybe Windows 9...?

I think the problems are half political, they don't want to abandon the old ways, and they don't want to create a separate touch product.

"If I was running MS" what I think they need to do is make an abstraction layer between application functionality and UI, rather than having an application be separate for touch/metro and desktop, it adapts and switches interface with no loss/separation of data between the two. If you're not going to make two separate product lines, you need a middleground. A middleground mouse/touch start menu would be a nice experiment to do too, I don't think it's impossible to make something nice.

PaladinTom wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I think one mistake they did make was launching the ARM version with a desktop environment. Seems it was just to be able to say they had Office, which wasn't available in Metro versions, yet. Seems that version should have been delayed until Office had been Metrofied.

Yup, it was all because of Office. They should have went with a pure touch-interface (maybe based on Windows Phone OS) instead of what they shipped.

They need to (somehow!) come up with a seamless and intelligent way of switching between mouse/keyboard and touch interfaces. Booting to desktop mode is a good idea, but what about when you want to undock and go touch? You need a quick way of initiating that. Perhaps the hardware Windows button on devices would always invoke the Modern app launcher?

I had thought way back in the day that Windows 8 applications would be a single app with two seperate user interfaces. Therefore, regardless of what mode you were in, the app would still function and you would also be able to snap between ui's on the fly. That way, you could be using Word in touch mode, and when you docked your device, it would snap into full-on desktop mode with your doc still open. Maybe Windows 9...? ;-)

Not sure I follow.. I have had a Surface Pro 128GB for about a month and its exactly what I wanted. Its a perfect blend of laptop and tablet. I can use it with the keyboard cover like a laptop and run all my Desktop Apps.. then in bed or on a plane I can flip the cover over and use it as a Tablet with Metro apps. The Windows Key on the Surface immediately launches the Metro Start Screen.

I give you its a tough thing to market and sell.. but outside of the tiny Hard Drive its perfect. I can travel with just it and not feel compromised in one bit.

I do think bringing back at least the desktop (though I can take or leave the Start Menu, no one uses it anyway) as a default option is a smart thing for them to do. I have nothing against Metro when it's used appropriately (a colleague got a Surface Pro that I had to setup and it's wonderful on that thing) but as it's designed, it's just a cumbersome pain in the ass on a desktop. I love Windows 8 underneath, they not only added some things but also coated the kernel in greased lightning. But because of Metro being forced on people, there was no chance I was going to buy it for our work computers and when I did eventually install it on my gaming/video rig, it was going to be with Start8. If they make going to the desktop a standard feature, I will happily start buying it for the office.

So. The Win+X shortcut key that brings up that super useful menu with basically all the core tools I tend to use often?

Just move the mouse to the bottom left corner like you would if you wanted to bring up the metro UI with it. But then right click. Same super useful menu.

Metro being a forced option isn't nearly as big a problem as it being infected with super-evil DRM, even as DRM goes. It's really, really nasty, deliberately putting non-Microsoft entities at a severe disadvantage. It's that old saying, "it's not done until Lotus won't run", reimplemented in 2012.

I used to think Apple was a pile of bullsh*t for telling you what you could and couldn't do with your own hardware, turning it into a rental; it always belongs to Apple. You get all the drawbacks of both purchasing and renting; you have to pay full price for it, and you have to fix it if it breaks, but you're not allowed to use it except as Apple sees fit. You'd never stand for that deal in real estate, why would you accept it in computing?

But Microsoft is far worse. They have balls the size of Texas. They want a percentage of all money you spend on software, so they're asserting control over hardware that they didn't make! It's dealing with the devil, and it's very foolish to buy into that model.

On my Windows 8 desktop PC at work.. I've disabled Metro.. I never have once run a Metro App on it.. and only see vague hints of the Metro UI when I log out of the system that once in a blue moon.

edit

In short.. I'm happy Microsoft is addressing the need for Corporate and Desktop users by providing a more traditional mouse and keyboard interface without the Metro UI on top of it.

But at the same time I'm glad Windows 8 exists because it makes hybrid laptop/tablets like the Surface Pro run really well. I know I sold a few alone on some plane rides simply to like minded business travelers that carry an Tablet and a Laptop.

Malor wrote:

I used to think Apple was a pile of bullsh*t for telling you what you could and couldn't do with your own hardware, turning it into a rental; it always belongs to Apple. You get all the drawbacks of both purchasing and renting; you have to pay full price for it, and you have to fix it if it breaks, but you're not allowed to use it except as Apple sees fit. You'd never stand for that deal in real estate, why would you accept it in computing?

But Microsoft is far worse. They have balls the size of Texas. They want a percentage of all money you spend on software, so they're asserting control over hardware that they didn't make! It's dealing with the devil, and it's very foolish to buy into that model.

Wait so it's OK for Apple to get 30% of whatever they sell in their store but not Microsoft? Apple didn't make their hardware either, FoxConn did. Apple may have designed the chips but guess what they didn't build those either, Samsung did. There are a lot of companies that build stuff and put another company's logo on it legally.

And the DRM stuff is Vista sky is falling BS all over again, I can play any media file I want in Win8 just like I could back in XP. Do I need codecs for non-native file types? yes but that isn't DRM.

Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Wait so it's OK for Apple to get 30% of whatever they sell in their store but not Microsoft? Apple didn't make their hardware either, FoxConn did.

They pay FoxConn. Microsoft does not pay PC manufacturers. Which somehow makes it more twisted.

I'm running Windows 8 on five personal computers and my workstation VM on-site at the office. So far it's stopped me from installing and running whatever apps I want exactly never.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Wait so it's OK for Apple to get 30% of whatever they sell in their store but not Microsoft? Apple didn't make their hardware either, FoxConn did.

They pay FoxConn. Microsoft does not pay PC manufacturers. Which somehow makes it more twisted.

So Android model.

Are we really going to get back into this again?

I'd liken it more to the Steam model. I haven't even seen this horribly oppressive Microsoft app store.