XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Strategy Game - Developed by Firaxis

mrtomaytohead wrote:
BlackSabre wrote:

Yup. I have all 16 countries covered and every country is at level 1 panic. All is good in the world.

Spoiler:

Just finished the first alien base assault decked out in Titan and Archangel Armour. So much easier than the first time I did it ;)

Your spoiler is just reinforcing the feeling that I jumped ahead in the progress critical research too fast in the 4-5hrs I've played since I now have the option to go after a base and have only seen a single new armor type.

Is it just a good idea to let the 'important' research sit around until you are ready to move on to bigger stuff?

Pretty much. If it says Priority next to it, don't research it! You can still carry on, but it just makes things a bit more difficult. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's just nice feeling powerful and taking out two mutons with a single fusion launcher shot

IMAGE(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882978867930520785/9E6B7AAA588FEC997CF0D04979FE8E0E46BB649A/)

Also, I'm totally ready for a new announcement of some DLC. Full on expansion pack style.

Sometimes it can help to rush towards certain milestones like the Base mission. When you complete it it gives a blanket reduction to panic levels across the globe so you can use it "save" nations without satellites you would otherwise lose.

Also there is tech that i can't get yet, (like ghost armor) till you complete the alien base mission. I'm also terrified how many chrysallids are going to be in that base since i've stalled so long. I just downed a large scout and the first thing i run into is a pair of Elite Mutons. Gonna tackle that base tonight, slow and steady with lotsa reaction shots is the way.

I didn't have any Chrysallids in the alien base. Just Mutons, Muton Berzerkers, Thin Men and Floaters. Yet I've had Cyberdiscs and Chrysallids in previous missions... in high quantities. Seemed like the alien base was scaled back.

Playing Classic Ironman and I'm in the psychic crap shoot phase of the game. The squad and tech is maxed out, so on a lark I thought I'd send in an all Shiva squad. O.M.G. They kicked ass so hard it was felt all the way back on Omicrom Persius IV. Until I get a new psi trooper to level up, I'm going to run the 'bots.

I also permanently lost one psychic Colonel to the gravely wound bug. I don't want to loose any more.
--
TAZ

Chrysalids are unique to terror missions I believe. It was certainly that way in UFO Defense at any rate.

complexmath wrote:

Chrysalids are unique to terror missions I believe. It was certainly that way in UFO Defense at any rate.

They also appear in the alien base, depending on how quickly you assault it. The range of inhabitants appears tied to the time elapsed - if you wait too long then you'll be fighting tougher stuff.

Just reading about this is making me want to play through again, and I've been through twice already, once on Normal Ironman, and once on Classic Ironman. 78 hours total.

I think I'd jump back to Normal Ironman for another playthrough, I'd want to take it more casually. Classic Ironman was a lot of fun, and very challenging, but it was also very nerve wracking.

I might even build a SHIV this time, still need that achievement!

complexmath wrote:

Chrysalids are unique to terror missions I believe. It was certainly that way in UFO Defense at any rate.

Nah you also got them in the bigger UFOs and alien bases if the race was Snakemen. XCOM is the same way, cryssalids will show up if the UFO is big enough. I've never seen them in scouts.

Suppression + Mayhem = guaranteed damage. It's small, 3 damage for Heavy Plasma, and I assume 1 and 2 for LMG and Heavy Laser respectively, but it's assured damage. It's vice nice for when you just need to push through the last few points. Combined with Danger Zone, AoE suppression and damage. That's definitely a Colonel level power.

I was surprised that Shredder Rocket granted me another Rocket. From the wording I'd assumed that it changed my one rocket into something else. Instead, you keep your normal Rocket, and you get an additional Shredder Rocket for use! Now I can't decide whether I want Suppression or Shredder!

In the end game, I've stumbled upon a combination that makes Council Missions easy missions for leveling up squaddies - Titan Armor, SCOPE, and Light Plasma Rifle. Thin Men don't have a lot of HP, so any damage beyond 7 is kind of a waste. LPRs have always killed them in one shot so far (and I've run many), and the additional accuracy is good for mopping the mission. Titan Armor is so all your troops will not be affected by Poison, which is the Thin Men's deadly AoE attack.

Interesting thing about Suppression (and Rifle Suppression) I'm noticing: it doesn't seem to matter how bad the chances are for the unit to actually get a shot off. When you suppress the target, it seems to prefer to stay put, and shoot under the -30 Aim penalty, or do nothing, either of which allows you to lock down that target and either flank it with another unit, or deal with everything else on the board while it does essentially nothing.

Redwing wrote:

Just reading about this is making me want to play through again, and I've been through twice already, once on Normal Ironman, and once on Classic Ironman. 78 hours total.

I think I'd jump back to Normal Ironman for another playthrough, I'd want to take it more casually. Classic Ironman was a lot of fun, and very challenging, but it was also very nerve wracking.

I might even build a SHIV this time, still need that achievement!

Go for it! You'll enjoy it again... but grab the slingshot DLC to vary it up a bit. I'm at 136 hours played and this is my third playthrough. Normal non-ironman and just having fun. My biggest challenge is collecting enough weapon parts to do my research and foundary projects.

Ha. Finally figured out Flush. The +30(!) Aim is the real draw. Forcing the alien to move is almost (but not really) incidental. The damage is greatly reduced, but it's possible to make up the damage through critical damage, upping the percentage through flanking, Aggression, and Exposed Target (good for Berserkers and Ethereals) and jacking the critical damage with Bring Em On at Captain. Killer Instinct just makes it that much better (+50% critical damage on Run and Gun activation).

Tamren wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Chrysalids are unique to terror missions I believe. It was certainly that way in UFO Defense at any rate.

Nah you also got them in the bigger UFOs and alien bases if the race was Snakemen. XCOM is the same way, cryssalids will show up if the UFO is big enough. I've never seen them in scouts.

I always assumed those UFOs were bound for terror sites. I think you're right about bases too. It's been too long since I've played that far.

I'm still mid-alien base mission, but I have seen chryssalids, drone things and thin men so far.

LarryC wrote:

Ha. Finally figured out Flush. The +30(!) Aim is the real draw. Forcing the alien to move is almost (but not really) incidental. The damage is greatly reduced, but it's possible to make up the damage through critical damage, upping the percentage through flanking, Aggression, and Exposed Target (good for Berserkers and Ethereals) and jacking the critical damage with Bring Em On at Captain. Killer Instinct just makes it that much better (+50% critical damage on Run and Gun activation).

It's funny, but I never seem to use my super powerful soldiers. I'd rather grab some newbies and level them up. Something about getting them to max level, then not gaining xp any more. I'll take the big guys on the harder levels, but for the most part, just try and rank up my newbs as much as possible.

BlackSabre wrote:

It's funny, but I never seem to use my super powerful soldiers. I'd rather grab some newbies and level them up. Something about getting them to max level, then not gaining xp any more. I'll take the big guys on the harder levels, but for the most part, just try and rank up my newbs as much as possible.

Me too. That's why they added paragon. Doh, wrong game!

Listening, Firaxis?

Also, it occurred to me that I always play the same way. Like there is one optimal path to take, so I take it every time. Make a beeline for engineers and satellites at the cost of everything else. Scientists are pretty much useless as that's not where the bottleneck is. It's also why I pick the missions which give engineers rather than money or scientists or a new recruit.

Yet, I'm still really enjoying myself.

BlackSabre:

I'm not entirely convinced that that's the optimal path to take. There's a certain amount of value in getting additional funding ASAP, but getting up on the tech tree for better weapons and armor leads to better value per mission (assuming you don't save scrub) leaving more money on the table for satellites. The bottleneck is in the speed at which satellites and uplinks are built. The hard limit seems to be on the money you can reinvest.

I tried going for engies and sats hard and it went harder than when I went for scientists first. Getting to beam weapons and carapace armor took a long, long time. I think it's possible to go for scientists hard, get up a couple Arc Throwers, and skip beam weapons entirely, going for Light Plamsa Rifles and carapace ASAP. Don't need to make LPRs. Just use Arcs aggressively to gain them in the field. Use savings from not having to make weapons in order to gain up in sats and uplinks just before you lose a country, managing mission choice carefully. I'm going to try this soon in a Europe or Africa base game.

Just tried Asia. Future Combat is a little underwhelming.

I played through this a few times and always skipped lasers. making the jump straight to plasma the way larry mentioned is definately a viable tactic.

LarryC wrote:

BlackSabre:

I'm not entirely convinced that that's the optimal path to take. There's a certain amount of value in getting additional funding ASAP, but getting up on the tech tree for better weapons and armor leads to better value per mission (assuming you don't save scrub) leaving more money on the table for satellites. The bottleneck is in the speed at which satellites and uplinks are built. The hard limit seems to be on the money you can reinvest.

Hmm, not sure I agree here. If you spend money on weapons and armour, that's less money for satellites which is what brings in more money. How are you working out better value per mission? If you send in six guys (or 4 if you don't upgrade -- even more money) wearing crappy armour and basic weapons and win, then you come out in front as that's money saved for more satellites.

Once you've got the sixteen satellites up, then you pretty much have license to go crazy and buy as much as you want... well, as long as you have enough weapon components. That seems to be my biggest bottleneck! I wish I could scrap my old weapons for parts. If I had more scientists, it would be irrelevant as I still can't research the other weapons as I don't have enough weapon parts. Yet alone do my foundry projects.

I never skip lasers. I can see why you would, but on Classic and up the lack of firepower is really painful. Light plasmas are good but heavies and snipers can't use em.

This goes double for shooting down UFOs because cannons and missiles just don't cut it after a while.

BlackSabre:

I suppose it depends on what you're doing. If you're not selling everything and the kitchen sink for satellites, powers, engineers, and uplinks, then there's a lot of resources you have just lying around being researched at a slow pace. If you want to be fast, you can have about +9 sat coverage in April, finishing all 16 by June.

Of course, you're going to have to fight Mutons with conventional weapons, which I strongly dislike even in Normal. Those things absorb a lot of bullets.

With a balanced approach, you lose about 2 countries' worth in May, and maybe lose 1 country permanently by June. This will typically not matter much, since you can always arrange to lose a country in your home continent (you retain your continent bonus) or just give up South America, since We Have Ways is largely an early game science boost.

The exchange is that you can have laser weapons and carapace armor for Mutons. In fact, I had Light Plasma Rifles before Mutons showed up (since I skipped beam weapons entirely), and Heavy Plasma weapons well before Elite Mutons showed up. I was wasting Thin Men with Heavy Plasma. Hehehe. I liked the way the game played this way. I used Arc Throwers to capture Thin Men and Light Plasma Rifles, then used Labs to brute force the research.

Saccing everything for sats typically means bad research and limited capability to tackle Light Plasma Rifles before getting the live Muton, IMX. I'll have to try out alternative means to get to LPRs. When are you getting bottlenecked on Weapon Fragments?

I've been plaiyng with Not Created Equal to get more of that classic XCOM feel. It's not quite the same since I can't use the weak applicants for cannon fodder. They might actually kill an alien! The upshot is that my soldiers cost about 2x to 3x normal, but they're really, really good.

Tamren:

I get the feeling that I could be getting Beam Weapons and Lasers faster and cheaper if I go for Weapon Fragments - Xenobiology - Arc Thrower - Alien Containment - Interrogate Sectoid - Beam Weapons. Going for LPRs skips building Alien Containment and Interrogation in exchange for going directly for Light Plasma Rifle, which leads directly to Plasma Cannon for the interceptors.

Research for LPRs + Plasma Cannon:

Weapon Fragments
Xenobiology
Light Plasma Rifle
Plasma Cannon

I brute forced my way through this using Europe's Expert Knowledge to set up two adjacent Labs for +50% Research on Normal. Plasma research would take way too long without this bonus, IMO. I could have researched and made Laser Rifles, I suppose. It feels like a bit of a detour.

Having said that, it occurs to me that Interrogate Thin Man and Interrogate Sectoid could have the same research benefit applied to limited areas at the cost of Alien Containment instead of two Labs.

Ah, I see that we have very different playstyles. I usually don't build laboratories until very late in the game. I also tend to pick Air and Space because it allows you to have twice the air force and never miss a UFO. The added salvage and reduced threat to satellites is a big help.

Lasers are much more viable if you get that sectoid in as soon as possible. We Have Ways is actually pretty useful in that regard because free alien research makes more of a difference in the early game. Sometimes I only end up using the laser rifles for a month before upgrading, but I get a ton of mileage out of the other weapons. And laser weapons are dirt cheap compared to the cost of manufacturing plasma or the risks of capturing it.

Also another reason I wouldn't skip the interrogations is that the Thin Men give the ship component bonus and that leads to the satellite nexus. Two uplinks and two Nexus in a square will give you a capacity of 16. Achieving it is rather difficult though given the expense and the need for intact UFO components.

While I do prioritize satellites over everything else (except maybe body armour) I only deploy them when needed. In the early game I snag USA and Russia for the higher income and then focus on one country to get that bonus. From then on I only deploy satellites if I would lose a country otherwise at the end of the month. Sometimes you get lucky and a mission pops up that reduces panic in the affected nations, so I always wait till the end of the month. The alien base mission helps a lot in this regard, I always save it up as an "emergency morale boost" so I might end up doing it very early or late in the game.

Capturing Plasma weaponry is actually kind of a breeze on Normal. I can't imagine it being that much harder on Classic, but I'll have to give it a go in a few months to see for myself. +10 Aim sounds like it'll be a bummer. On the other hand, +1 HP means you can use grenades reliably to bring a Thin Man to exactly 1 HP for 90% Arc Thrower efficacy every time.

Suppression and Rifle Suppression are great powers for securing a capture, generally in the first group or in the last Thin Man in a mission. The AI generally stays put and prefers to use alternative powers. Supports with Medikits are great for Suppression since they're also immune to Poison Spit. Full cover or partial cover + Hunker Down + Tactical Sense allows your Assault to approach the Thin Man safely. Its the stun chance that's kind of a bummer.

You'll only need 5 of these anyway, 1 of which should be coming from the Outsider, and 1 from the Thin Man that starts off the research. It should be relatively easy to get 1 from a Council mission. These 3 LPRs will constitute the bulk of weapons for your XCOMs coming from laser or conventional weapons, and function later on as rookie weapons for Council Missions. The 4th LPR should be coming from a live Muton from the first appearance of this enemy type, which will facilitate Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rifle research; or from a Crash Site Floater or Thin Man capture.

There should be no more than 5 captures, since you'll also need weapon fragments for research and foundry activity.

I'm actually not liking the current balance for Plasma vs. Laser weaponry in Enemy Unknown. I like side-grades rather than upgrades. Lasers also didn't have the punch of plasma in the original, but they used no ammo, were more accurate, and did bonus damage against Sectopods. These attributes made them viable weapons for most of the game.

Off the top of my head, here's where I would like Lasers to be:

Laser Rifles will inherit Light Plasma Rifle attributes, and require no ammo.
Laser Pistols will get +20 Aim
Laser Sniper Rifles will get +10 Aim and require no ammo.

Light Plasma Rifles grant +2 tile movement and 9 Critical Damage.

Classic is quite hard for all sorts of different reasons but capturing aliens is about the same. Slightly tougher aliens mean you can weaken them with grenades and have a better chance of reaching that magic 1hp threshold. They also show up in greater numbers. The hard part is managing to isolate that one weakened enemy in a position where you can capture it safely. The game tends to throw in multiple groups at the same time so you tend to find yourself thinning them out just to lessen the volume of fire coming at you. Having at least one source of Suppression and Disabling Shot make capture a breeze in most cases.

Light and normal plasma rifles are easy to come by since they show up all the time. I try to have a soldier of each class at all times so I rarely need more than 5 of each. But plasma pistols are worth their weight in elerium. Only sectoids carry them and on Classic they phase them out of missions quite fast, I sometimes bring dual arc throwers early on for just this reason.

You get 1 guaranteed from the sectoid you're bringing in alive. You should get another from the Sectoid Commander in the alien base mission. That's two - one for your Gunslinger, and the other for your Close Combat Specialist. Everyone else can just use Laser Pistols.

On the powers side, I'm really, really warming up to Flush.

It gets a bad rap because extra attacks get a shine from the bias we all have from getting virtual extra actions, but it's worth noting that the second Rapid Fire attack can only target the unit you already assigned for the Rapid Fire, and both attacks get -15% chance to hit. Best case is that this gives you +10% chance to hit, with declining gains on either side of 50% chance to hit. Flush's +30 Aim is massive.

On further experience, Rapid Fire is truly excellent for close combat shotgun Assaults who can get really up in an Xray's grill for 100% chance to hit and 100% critical. That's one way to kill a Sectopod. It also serves them well at midrange, mitigating shotgun penalties.

For a Rifle assault guy, I'm trending more and more towards Flush, since the chance for both attacks to hit at base 65% (for adjusted 50% Rapid Fire) is a mere 25%. You'll hit with at least one attack 75% of the time. Compared to Flush. At base 65% chance to hit, you get to 95% chance to hit - a near certain hit. Even Xrays under full cover starting off at a dismal 35% gets you up to a respectable 65%, and you force the Xray off. I find this extremely useful for finishing off targets under full cover with low HPs, generally Heavy Floaters, Muton Elites, and Ethereals. Occasionally, I'll use it to make sure a low-HP Berserker at range gets killed.

At Captain, Bring 'Em On can add as much as +5 critical damage for a two group combat. I was able to observe a 13 HP Critical Hit on a Muton Elite at range. Of course, I rocketed the cover off, but the near sure-kill from 100% chance + 90% critical was really nice. Rapid Fire was not so good in the same application.

Currently, I'm using this alternative Rifle Assault progression:

Run and Gun
Aggression
Lightning Reflexes
Flush
Bring 'Em On
Extra Conditioning
Killer Instinct

I'm finding the Action Economy in the game to be a brilliant design, at once evocative of cinematic and real action and also intuitive and surprisingly deep. Perhaps it's intuitive because it works like we think it should. John McClane doesn't stop in the middle of a headlong rush to make a head count, stop himself mid-tracks and then turn around. He does that when he's dashing from cover to cover in short hops, not when he's making a headlong plunge into somewhere he hopes will end up good.

Fiddly bits in the old game are now no-action actions. Opening doors, switching weapons, turning off power nodes - all no-action actions. This reduces complexity without sacrificing depth. In truth, you'd have to be colossally stupid or simply unfamiliar with the old game to lose an entire shooting action to indecisive switching between weapons or kneeling/standing over and over. There's also the small point that you don't know how well switching to pistols will do until you actually have the pistol equipped, so it's something of a penalty for information you need to make a sound decision. All good changes.

The old Aimed Shot/Snap Shot/Auto Shot economy has been rolled into class powers and multi-action powers. Aimed Shot is now Flush. Auto Shot is Rapid Fire, Bullet Swarm, Suppression, and Rifle Suppression. Snap Shot is the default. This is excellent. There was no way to suppress in the original.

My one gripe is sighting. You have no way of knowing if the position you're going to for cover will have sight to the alien you're trying to shoot, and short of reloading, there's no way to know for sure, which seems super non-intuitive, gamish, and fiddly, particularly when the locations look like they ought to have LOS between them.

Between the tech tree pathing, class combinations, tactics, and breadth of powers, I have to disagree with Malor's assessment that this is not a worthy update of the original, and that it's got limited legs. I can easily see myself playing this game on and off for the forseeable future.

Does flush work against things not in cover? Or things that normally don't take cover? I can't remember.

The Aim bonus always works. The moving part doesn't, which isn't really why I use Flush anyway, so I'm okay with that.

Are the Chryssalids worse in Classic than in Normal? I don't remember them being quite so, er, squishy.

Definitely a big jump in toughness. The zombies too. Laser weapons become a lot more important on Classic because they allow your heavies and snipers to reliably down the weaker enemies in one hit, or one crit.

On a side note has anyone used disabling shot against a Sectopod successfully? All of the instances I can remember resulted in failure and it kept firing anyway. It does work properly on Cyberdisks though.

Ignored labs, found no reason to build them. Only got a few scientists as needed, and mostly they weren't. Laser weapons, carapace armor, 6 man squads and satellites, satellites, satellites. Once the 16 were up, coast along, after doing the base mission I'd normally have the entire world at the lowest two panic levels, if not the lowest. Losing countries to the aliens just didn't happen, and tactically I'd normally lose at most a handful of troops (slow, patient, 2 supports and liberal use of smoke, 2 snipers and all the overwatch in the world). No 'save scumming'. That was on any difficulty except Ironman, which I didn't play due to the bugs.

Plasma weapons are nice, but between lasers and snipers in general (Squad Sight ftw), there was no rush. Staying with the horrible conventional weapons just wasn't worth it. And after the first few games, I stopped bothering with pistols at all, didn't worry about getting laser or plasma pistols.

Basing in the US for the Air&Space bonus was the norm, and getting We Have Ways asap was also worth doing.

If I were to replay the game (doubtful), I'd try a more SHIV heavy approach. The few I used were damn useful on terror missions, once they could fly.