Nutrition and eating well group

That's an interesting approach, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that smaller more frequent meals help keep your metabolism up and thus can help with weight loss (provided your total caloric absorption is still less than your expenditure), are these two models in conflict?

My inclination is that one's energy would also be quite low for the end of the off cycle under a 16 off/8 on regime but I've no anecdotal experience there.

krev82 wrote:

That's an interesting approach, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that smaller more frequent meals help keep your metabolism up and thus can help with weight loss (provided your total caloric absorption is still less than your expenditure), are these two models in conflict?

It's a myth.

Jonman wrote:

It's a myth.

Many thanks Jonman, my apologies to everyone for not checking up further prior to posting.

If you do it the way my wife does, where she measures and carefully portions out her oatmeal for breakfast, her berries as a snack, avoids franken fruits, limits her lunches or dinners to carefully measured meals-then you will see results.

I think some of the issue, as mentioned in various parts of the thread is that no matter what you do, without portioning and information, you will probably take in too much.

Something I learned this week. Clementine Cuties-small super sweet oranges have 50 percent more calories than a large naval orange. Now you would think that the orange that is 3 times bigger has more calories, but that is mostly because it has more water.

I prefer to eat until I feel full, at scheduled parts of the day and I keep healthy snacks around-plenty of good fruits, nuts, beef jerky. I eat 3 times a day, maybe 4 when I push a meal around.

I hesitate to say that any crazy diet will not work, if it is just a delivery method of getting you to think about what you eat. But I do not think anyone would fight that the person who cuts out sugars, pop, and processed flour but eats 3 times a day is eating less healthfully than the person eating chips, candy bars, and ice cream 6 times a day.

Bah, I've allowed end of term and end of degree stresses to knock me off the wagon, I'm not quite done yet but I feel like I gotta pull my diet back up before a poor diet becomes habitual again.

I have had great luck with extra firm tofu brushing it with a wet rub and grilling it with vegetables. If you look up "tofu steak" you'll probably get some good recipes.

We usually do have to brush a lot more rub on compared to meat because there is no inherent saltiness or other flavors besides tofu-ness.

Firmness is always on the label and the consistency can be pretty satisfying comparative to meat.

If you want crispy you can do tofu up similar to sweet and sour chicken balls or fish & chips just using the appropriate cut of tofu and pre-made or home-made batter.

Stick to firm or extra firm if you're wanting to handle it like meat. You will definitely notice a texture difference from meat but it's manageable.

These days there are also tons of other soy-based meat alternatives in most supermarkets, these are designed to be closer to meat in texture and flavor. While I'm sure they're not a perfect imitation once you have them in a dish they're likely very close. Downside is these can be a bit pricy but they're very helpful for in between stages and are usually fortified with plenty of B vitamins (esp [b]B12), iron ,and other things one normally gets from meat.

ETA: tofu tends to contain a lot of water as well, for some dishes it's helpful to 'press' it prior to your other preparations.

Thanks guys.

I've bought a 'couple of slabs' of firm to try some different things out with.

What a difference in price! $3.25 for 500g as opposed to paying $12.50 for 700g of steak. The premade "Soysages" where somewhat more expensive ($7 for 6) but I think they were the Top shelf variety you mentioned Krev, fortified with everything, and oozing B12

I've looked at the link below, and I think following that process I can then use rubs and stuff to approximate the tastes I usually employ in the BBQ she likes.

http://www.katheats.com/favorite-foo...

Should be fun. Spending tomorrow having an extended lunch where we are going to just cook up a storm.

I've got some falafel mix too, so I may even fry some tofu in with that and see if it picks up any of that flavour at the same time.

Arise!

OK, my daughter (6) has announced that she doesn't want to eat "anything she can cuddle", so, I am looking at the moment at 'how I can swap out what a growing child needs, and gets from red meat' with 'other' sources of nutrient.

I am glad that she is still OK with eating fish, and eggs, and milk. We have also told her that three days a week a week, we will all eat meat, but on the other 4, all four of us will not. On the meat days, she wants to eat the fish.

My rationale to her was that if only she cuts out meat there are only 7 days in a week where animals aren't being eaten. If we support her, as a family, then there are 16 days that animals aren't getting eaten. I explained that because she was 'growing', and because Daddy was still researching and finding out what we needed to do to make sure that she didn't miss out on anything important, that seemed like a fair deal. She agreed.

So, my first (of many, I guess) food questions relate to Tofu:

How robust is Tofu, and can I treat it like meat when I cook it?

Using firm tofu, can I marinade it, and then stick it on a BBQ plate?

Can I flame grill it on the plate, or does it need a solid base?

Can I be 'rough' with it, or does it need to be handled gently?

Do I need to flour it to get it crispy if frying?

How important is 'getting the moisture out'?

How difficult is it to get flavours 'into it'?

Does it carry things like rubs, and seasonings as well as meat does?

Thanks in advance

If you are going with soy products, you should also try to source some tempeh. Much more interesting texturally than tofu.

DanB wrote:

If you are going with soy products, you should also try to source some tempeh. Much more interesting texturally than tofu.

I read that in this article on mimicking meat. It mentions seitan too.

+1 seitan, unless of course someone is gluten sensitive. It's probably the closest I've had to what I recall sliced beef texture and taste. It can make up a great vegetarian (or vegan) donair or Philly cheese-steak.

among other things the tempeh DanB mentions can make a great substitute for faux-BLTs, see also: coconut bacon

Another thing to bear in mind is that many people far over estimate their daily protein needs, I'm not sure what the accurate figures are for a growing young girl though.

krev82 wrote:

+1 seitan, unless of course someone is gluten sensitive. It's probably the closest I've had to what I recall sliced beef texture and taste. It can make up a great vegetarian (or vegan) donair or Philly cheese-steak.

among other things the tempeh DanB mentions can make a great substitute for faux-BLTs, see also: coconut bacon

Another thing to bear in mind is that many people far over estimate their daily protein needs, I'm not sure what the accurate figures are for a growing young girl though.

We're going to talk to our family doctor, to make sure we hit all the marks, etc. We've agreed, in principal, to her wishes, but she also understands about how tricky it might be for "someone still growing" and we've made it clear to her that there is no problem with "cutting out meat when I'm a little older" if the stuff we try tomorrow is just not that nice to her.

I'll even offer to "go without" to balance up the books if she wants, until she's at a point that she's ready

Protein requirements for people range between 0.4 to 1.3g of protein per kilo of lean mass (you weight minus the weight of the fat you are carrying). Typically anything above 1g per kg will be required for athletes, body builders and people with very active jobs. Most people consume around 0.6 to 0.8g. I'm not aware that this is particularly different for growing kids.

Here's a long table with daily values for kids and adults
http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/prot...

Worth noting that it really doesn't matter if you over consume protein (assuming you are metabolically normal). Keep snack foods to a minimum and make sure she is sated after meals and you'll probably be hitting your nutrition targets without too much effort.

I can attest that as a meat eater, both tempeh and seitan can work well. A vegetarian restaurant nearby me does a nice wrap with seitan, hummus, vegetables, pickles and tahini. The seitan is similar to thicker gyro meat.

At another of my wife and my favorite vegetarian restaurants they have an open faced reuben with tempeh that is reminiscent of the real deal but not a replacement. (delicious in its own right) It made me a fan of tempeh for sure.

My wife and I do eat regularly at vegetarian restaurants despite being meat eaters. We try them on a whim and return to the good ones. (quite a few since we live in the SF Bay Area) This one vegan restaurant does the best fried "chicken" (tofu). I don't know how they get the consistency right with as large of pieces as they serve.

Some of our favourite dishes, before the kids came along and we had to pare back the spices, were vegetarian dishes with a touch of meat added into them.

I know, I know, that kind of goes against the spirit of them...

We had a great punjabi chole recipe that sung with a smattering of cubed chicken thigh added into the mix though.

Another good thing to look into is mushrooms. A slab of portobello, marinated and grilled can make a great hamburger. They can make a truly awesome stroganoff, too.

If cuddliness is a factor, how does she feel about seafood?

wordsmythe wrote:

If cuddliness is a factor, how does she feel about seafood?

Nom nom nom.

One of the reliefs I had when she made the announcement as I knew I could fall back on that as a good source of 'meat-stuff'.

So far, she is loving the fried tofu, but she's not too keen on it when baked. Falafels were a hit, if for no other reason than she was allowed to make the mix by herself, and it "makes wicked farts".

She's all class my little lady.

m0nk3yboy wrote:

Falafels were a hit, if for no other reason than she was allowed to make the mix by herself, and it "makes wicked farts".

She's all class my little lady.

Beans, of course, are another excellent source of both protein and farts. Win-win!

m0nk3yboy wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

If cuddliness is a factor, how does she feel about seafood?

Nom nom nom.

One of the reliefs I had when she made the announcement as I knew I could fall back on that as a good source of 'meat-stuff'.

So far, she is loving the fried tofu, but she's not too keen on it when baked. Falafels were a hit, if for no other reason than she was allowed to make the mix by herself, and it "makes wicked farts".

She's all class my little lady.

I mean, my first thought when it came to cuddling with food was a squid. My brain takes me fun places sometimes.

wordsmythe wrote:

I mean, my first thought when it came to cuddling with food was a squid. My brain takes me fun places sometimes.

Fun Fact! I have a friend who owns The Cuddle Squid - a 7 foot long teddy-squid.

Smooching Cthulhu!

wordsmythe wrote:
m0nk3yboy wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

If cuddliness is a factor, how does she feel about seafood?

Nom nom nom.

One of the reliefs I had when she made the announcement as I knew I could fall back on that as a good source of 'meat-stuff'.

So far, she is loving the fried tofu, but she's not too keen on it when baked. Falafels were a hit, if for no other reason than she was allowed to make the mix by herself, and it "makes wicked farts".

She's all class my little lady.

I mean, my first thought when it came to cuddling with food was a squid. My brain takes me fun places sometimes.

Lentils, chickpeas, and other legumes, as well as basic beans, are great sources of vegetarian protein and fiber.

Along that note, my wife bought some white kidney beans and from the label, they appear to be superior to even black beans in terms of protein and fiber for less carbohydrates.

White kidney beans 21g carb, 10g fiber, 8g protein
Black beans 22g carb, 9g fiber, 7g protein

No other starches I have found have come close to the nutritional value of beans.

Also, Target's food product brand (Market Pantry) is selling protein bars (chocolate and peanut butter) that are pretty decent for very reasonable prices ($2.50 for 5-6 bars): 24g carb, 5g fiber, 10g protein

m0nk3yboy wrote:

Arise!

OK, my daughter (6) has announced that she doesn't want to eat "anything she can cuddle"

Does that include...

IMAGE(http://www.tnaqua.org/Libraries/Invertebrates/PharaohCuttlefish.sflb.ashx)

Paleocon wrote:
m0nk3yboy wrote:

Arise!

OK, my daughter (6) has announced that she doesn't want to eat "anything she can cuddle"

Does that include...

IMAGE(http://www.tnaqua.org/Libraries/Invertebrates/PharaohCuttlefish.sflb.ashx)

I see what you did there, nice

So, update time I guess.

We're having a lot of fun with this.

If nothing else it's been a fantastic catalyst for her trying lots of new ways to eat different foods, and textures. Her younger sister isn't quite on board, but we knew that going in. We're not forcing this on her, but again, new foods, new combinations.

The biggest surprise for me was how much she liked the tofu. I thought that would lose her straight off the bat.

I made some really simple zucchini and potatoes fritters tonight, and we had those in some wholemeal hamburger buns. We had them as veggie burgers with more vegetables (lettuce, tomato, etc), some cheese, and a quick homemade tomato sauce.

Spinach and ricotta filo pastry bites were a hit too.

She really didn't like lentils too much, but I may just need to find a different way to present those. I figured 'burgered' or maybe attempt a BBQing if I can get them to set nicely.

Perhaps get some of those fancy soy-sages to go with them.

Lentils are better in the winter. They make a great soup with crusty bread.

Edit: I grew up vegan. As long as you don't let her be a mostly fake-meat or mac-and-cheese vegetarian she'll be fine... if she wants to be veggie she needs to eat greens (broccoli has a ton of calcium and everything important). And you're already on top of the B12 thing which is the other issue.