Fluoride in the water, Windsor Ontario votes to stop fluoridation.

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Well, as a start, the only reason I heard about this is because Windsor is within throwing distance of Downtown Detroit.

But apparently Canada has been very keen to eliminate fluoride from the water.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/01...

Unanimously health advisers from medicine and dentistry warned there was not medical evidence that fluoride in water has adverse health effects, and removing it would do harm to the dental and bone health of children.

I am having a hell of a time finding what fluoridation of water does. And I am getting a general feeling that this is a lot like immunizations lead to autism.

Sigh. This issue grinds my gears because to me it boils down to scared middle-class parents of kids who get regular dental care and likely drink bottled water anyway, actively obstructing care for lower-income kids who can't get dentist visits on the basis of junk science. GRRR

I get hotheaded about this, so I try not to argue about it. But it sure pisses me off.

Portland has been engaging in this fight too. All manner of anti-vac levels of 'logic' and 'science' being applied.

The case opposing fluoridation really should be represented. Here:

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

The case opposing fluoridation really should be represented. Here:

I can't see that youtube link at work, someone please tell me it's intentionally hilarious and not just tragically hilarious.

IMAGE(http://www.omni.to/upload/illuminati-cards/thumb/fiendish_fluoridators.jpg)

Demosthenes wrote:

I can't see that youtube link at work, someone please tell me it's intentionally hilarious and not just tragically hilarious.

It is from Dr. Strangelove, so both I guess.

Up until the mid-80s, Phoenix did not fluoridate it's water. Then, the city council decided to do so.

I still remember the bizarre arguments against it:

"It's a Communist plot."
"The American Dental Association is a known front for fascists."
"Fluoride is a mind-altering drug that allows the government to control us."
"Fluoride causes spontaneous abortions."

And on and on.

But, the city council ignored it and fluoride was added.

A year or so ago, one of the Phoenix suburbs was thinking of adding fluoride and the arguments were even more bizarre, especially this one:

"It's an Al-Qaeda plot."

Of course it is.

Oy.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

Up until the mid-80s, Phoenix did not fluoridate it's water. Then, the city council decided to do so.

I still remember the bizarre arguments against it:

"It's a Communist plot."
"The American Dental Association is a known front for fascists."
"Fluoride is a mind-altering drug that allows the government to control us."
"Fluoride causes spontaneous abortions."

And on and on.

But, the city council ignored it and fluoride was added.

A year or so ago, one of the Phoenix suburbs was thinking of adding fluoride and the arguments were even more bizarre, especially this one:

"It's an Al-Qaeda plot."

Of course it is.

Oy.

My favorites were always that it lead to the feminization and emasculation of men and a lowering of their sperm count.

My wife works in the dental field and this is one of those topics that gets her visibly upset when dealing with the stunning ignorance and idiocy from the anti-flouride crowd.

We live in the first city in the nation to flouridate its water, and we still deal with those crazies.

KingGorilla wrote:

I am getting a general feeling that this is a lot like immunizations lead to autism.

Yup, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

This is why education in science is important. That way, there is less of a foothold for the anti-whatever whack-jobs when they come knocking.

mudbunny wrote:

This is why science in education is important. That way, there is less of a foothold for the anti-whatever whack-jobs when they come knocking.

FTFA (Fixed that for America)

It is possible for there to be too much fluoride in the drinking water, which can f*ck up your teeth and cause brain problems (this has happened in China, crazy Communist plot indeed!), but it's mostly caused by industrial pollution, not government fluoridation programs (China did f*ck those up too though, back in the 70s-80s). However the crazies still like to use the China studies to make their case.

Fluoride in water is not as useful as fluoride in toothpaste. Dental hygiene is way more useful than fluoride in water. Toothpaste is now cheap and abundant.

Water does not stay topically on teeth as toothpaste does.

Countries where fluoride is not put in water have seen their cavity rates plummet as much as those that do.

Toothpaste is an active system, fluoridated water is a passive system. It's valuable when you're not sure people are using and teaching the active system. Little kids might not have someone teaching them to brush their teeth every day, but you know they're drinking water.

clover wrote:

Toothpaste is an active system, fluoridated water is a passive system. It's valuable when you're not sure people are using and teaching the active system. Little kids might not have someone teaching them to brush their teeth every day, but you know they're drinking water.

Yup. Was talking with a friend of mine the other day and she mentioned that tinfoil played havoc with her fillings if she got even a tiny bit in her mouth. I was taken aback because, as I then told her, I have no fillings and had no idea that it would have that effect. She asked me what I did and I just told her that I brush my teeth thoroughly twice a day. I don't remember how we got onto actual numbers but it turns out that she spends around 30 seconds brushing her teeth at a time whereas I usually spend 5-10 minutes brushing mine. Mostly because my mum was very adamant about us kids not having to have fillings as she did (because she was scared of the dentist and didn't want us to go through the same thing) when we were growing up...

Chinese exporters of fluoride chemicals describe fluoride as follows:

It is used in the manufacture of effervescing steel, and the smelting and refining of light metals. It is also used in fluorination of drinking water, as a wood preservative, an adhesive preservative. An insecticide, a protective coating for metals, a pickle for steels and other metals, a flux for soldering and welding, as well as a flux and pacifier for ceramic, glass and porcelain enamel.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039776_fl...

You basically know if the American FDA approves it then its probably detrimental to your health. When are chemicals ever good inside a human body anyways? We already have plenty of products out there with health destroying preservatives & sweeteners, its not as if they wouldn't let the public consume it because of 'concern' for their health. Just about everything now days from the fracking of gas, processed foods, pesticides used on soils, deodorants etc can wreak havoc on the populations health.

Is this sarcasm or real?

When I went to the dentist after moving to Portland (which does not push fluoride in the water), the first thing they said to me after I opened my mouth was 'Where are you from because I can tell you didn't grow up here.'

Real Seth

Yikes. I'll need to get to a real computer to refute your last post, but in the interim, I should point out that Natural News has more in common with Truthers, Birthers, and mcCarthyists (the vaccine nuts, not the anti commie nuts) than actual scientists.

O_o Yes, chemicals. Chemicals are bad. I, for one, am absolutely against carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, magnesium, iron, calcium... and all of the other chemicals, too.

Hypatian wrote:

O_o Yes, chemicals. Chemicals are bad. I, for one, am absolutely against carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, magnesium, iron, calcium... and all of the other chemicals, too.

IMAGE(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AED9cl5scbI/TkPAvS604BI/AAAAAAAAACo/YCkxjbK1Xo0/s1600/Ban-Dihydrogen-Monoxide-debate-8642860-450-450.gif)

There are countless other references for fluoride being harmful to health, Toni Jeffrey's book Your Health At Risk has an absolute brilliant chapter on the effects of fluoride (with references). There's a website http://www.fluoridealert.org/article... with some really good points too. Without even researching anything to do with vaccines I personally know quite a few people who get a vaccination & still end up getting sick. It's hard to know what studies to believe these days though, so much info gets suppressed (take a look at the American & British medical journals as an example, doctors warnings about vaccines going unnoticed).

Hypatian wrote:

O_o Yes, chemicals. Chemicals are bad. I, for one, am absolutely against carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, magnesium, iron, calcium... and all of the other chemicals, too.

I'm talking more in the way of man made chemicals but yeah I'm personally a geth & those chemicals do nothing for me :p

Rahmen wrote:

When I went to the dentist after moving to Portland (which does not push fluoride in the water), the first thing they said to me after I opened my mouth was 'Where are you from because I can tell you didn't grow up here.'

Had the exact same exchange when I changed dentists here in BC a few years ago: one look at my teeth and, "Did you grow up in Alberta?"

33 and no cavities.

Spikeout wrote:

There are countless other references for fluoride being harmful to health, Toni Jeffrey's book Your Health At Risk has an absolute brilliant chapter on the effects of fluoride (with references). There's a website http://www.fluoridealert.org/article... with some really good points too. Without even researching anything to do with vaccines I personally know quite a few people who get a vaccination & still end up getting sick. It's hard to know what studies to believe these days though, so much info gets suppressed (take a look at the American & British medical journals as an example, doctors warnings about vaccines going unnoticed).

Perhaps I missed the memo, but could you provide a scholarly citation stating that vaccines are always 100% effective?

Phoenix Rev wrote:
Spikeout wrote:

There are countless other references for fluoride being harmful to health, Toni Jeffrey's book Your Health At Risk has an absolute brilliant chapter on the effects of fluoride (with references). There's a website http://www.fluoridealert.org/article... with some really good points too. Without even researching anything to do with vaccines I personally know quite a few people who get a vaccination & still end up getting sick. It's hard to know what studies to believe these days though, so much info gets suppressed (take a look at the American & British medical journals as an example, doctors warnings about vaccines going unnoticed).

Perhaps I missed the memo, but could you provide a scholarly citation stating that vaccines are always 100% effective?

I suppose in the world intelligent design and no evolution, vaccines would be expected to be 100% effective, as a disease would never change and there would be only 1 strain of it.

Okay, found a computer. now as long as my blond ale doesn't boil over, we're fine. First! The myths.

Fluoride is a deadly synthetic (man made) chemical.

FALSE! Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance found almost everywhere in the natural world. Many places actually have it in their own water supplies. You can find it almost everywhere, even in seaweed. It's the 13th most common mineral in the earth's crust! It interacts with the enamel on your teeth to slow down the demineralization process. So, yes, on a very fundamental level, fluoride in your mouth is doing something similar to what it does in industrial uses -- that is, it's protecting the hardest substance in your body (and one of the hardest substances living things can grow) from destruction.

Fluoride is used in things that sound scary, like insecticides and metallurgy!

YUP! And who cares? We're not talking about fluoridating a water supply with huge amounts of this stuff. We're talking about ingesting a trace amount that helps protect your teeth while not causing danger to your body. Salt, for example, is also used in industrial processes. It's also harmful in high doses...and healthy when taken properly.

The FDA is secretly trying to kill us!

I do have the utmost sympathy for the FDA -- or any government organization whose success is only measured by "lack of disaster." But one swine flu outbreak and suddenly it's "where was the FDA?"

So, really, what's the real danger?

Sugar.

Yep -- sugar. both naturally occurring and processed. Honey and HFCS. Sugar causes a reaction to the saliva in your mouth that turns it into an acid so powerful it can literally eat through the protective layer on your teeth. Sugar is not needed for any bodily process or function -- we're designed to make our own fuel from more complex molecules.

In fact, in high doses, sugar is a poison. It's a primary driver for obesity, the biggest killer in the modern world outside of tobacco smoke. It literally rots your teeth. It has addictive properties on par with nicotine and heroin.

Not sucralose. Not xyletol. Not any other scary sounding sugar substitute. And certainly not fluoride.

Sugar.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride
http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_f...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Natural...
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4283
http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_91...

(I had to put that last one there to show I wasn't kidding about the Truther / natural news link)

Seth wrote:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_91...

(I had to put that last one there to show I wasn't kidding about the Truther / natural news link)

After looking at their website, I can very easily conclude that they are as reliable as the homeless person that wears a tin foil hat.

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