5.1 surround off of motherboard audio?

I'm playing with the idea of using some tax-refund money to set up surround sound in my computer room for gaming purposes. But I don't want to spend a whole lot of money, since I have a decent headset and the main A/V setup is in the living room anyway. (And I'm not exactly a connoisseur of audio equipment anyway.)

I'm using a motherboard that has a Realtek sound chip, "Dolby Home Theater" listed as a feature, and a half-dozen jacks for speakers. Does it make any sense to run surround sound off of that? And if so, what cheap-but-not-too-cheap speakers should I look at?

In my experience, on-motherboard sound has come a long way over the years. It used to take up such a large chunk of CPU time that it really wasn't workable, at least for gaming. Nowadays I use on-board (mainly because I didn't have the spare cash to get a dedicated card)... However, it's still not without its problems. For instance I end up with an occasional break when I'm playing music - not in games, not when watching movies... only when listening to MP3s (didn't try a CD, as far as I can remember). Other on-board sound solutions never did that for me... though there were some other niggles.

If you know the chipset name and number than google that to see if there is any issues and maybe also to see whether people who have it are running in the same environment you want to - that'd be my first move. Beyond that I'm sure there are as many different opinions on the "right" speakers to have in such a set up as there are days of the year.

How much is the budget? I would highly suggest just getting a really nice pair of stereo speakers and an amplifier. If you really want to get immersed, just go with your headset.

The Emotiva Pros tend to get recommended around here in audio threads. Online reviews are great. The smallest ones are $315. They are powered monitors, so all you need to do is give them analog audio output. No need to bother with an amplifier.

Trust me, if you haven't bothered with good audio equipment, you will be blown away by good quality equipment. That being said, if you don't to drain your bank account in years to come, by all means, stick with not-so-good audio equipment.

I have some small Klipsch bookshelf speakers and an amplifier. At the time, I was playing L.A. Noire. When you fire up that game, the opening song is incredible. I would just sit in my chair for 15 minutes marveling at how good the music sounded.

To be honest, stereo sound that's great is actually fairly immersive.

Duoae wrote:

If you know the chipset name and number than google that to see if there is any issues and maybe also to see whether people who have it are running in the same environment you want to - that'd be my first move.

I do not, but the motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H (and is about three years old now).

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

How much is the budget?

Maybe $400, max. Which is about five times as much as I spent the last time I bought speakers, but I was in grad school then.

misplacedbravado wrote:
Duoae wrote:

If you know the chipset name and number than google that to see if there is any issues and maybe also to see whether people who have it are running in the same environment you want to - that'd be my first move.

I do not, but the motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H (and is about three years old now).

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

How much is the budget?

Maybe $400, max. Which is about five times as much as I spent the last time I bought speakers, but I was in grad school then. :)

Oh man, get those Emotivas then. I can just about guarantee you will love them and won't return them. Read a review here. I don't actually own them, but I'm certain they are fairly similar if not better than the Klipsch bookshelf speakers that I use with my PC. I got those speakers for about $300 on Newegg, but they don't sell them anymore on there.

Get an HTIB setup, if you can. If you buy 'computer speakers', they will usually suck. Even kinda crappy HITBs will usually sound at least okay, and good ones (Onkyo used to make excellent ones, although I haven't heard them in several years) will sound many times better than any computer speaker I'm aware of.

The awkward part is that, if you want full fidelity, you have two basic options. The first is HDMI sound. Most video cards have an HDMI soundcard built right in, but this limits your screen resolution to 1920x1200, and usually induces some lag; receivers are kind of lagtastic. The other is a set of analog cables to a multichannel analog input on the receiver. If you've got any kind of recent PC, this will usually sound quite good, and will have no lag. But the problem is that it's getting hard to find cheap AV receivers with multichannel analog ins.

Therefore, you probably want something used. Used receivers in particular depreciate very quickly, and for your intended use, you don't need any features at all, just quality five- or seven-channel amplification. So I'd look for something from Denon in particular from several years ago. I'm running a 2809CI I got really cheap a couple years back (maybe $400? Not sure anymore), and I bet you could find one now for much less. You can go back a long way, you don't need anything recent at all. It just needs to be good quality (Denon is generally excellent; Onkyos run hot, so I'm a little worried about their long-term reliability), and have at least a 5.1, and preferably a 7.1 input. (If you can find an older HTIB with analog ins, that would be absolutely perfect, solving everything at once.)

If you can only find a receiver, then you'll need speakers. Nice thing about speakers is that they last freaking forever, so you can buy ten-year-old models and expect them to sound like new, as long as they're not damaged. (Past 20 years or so, they sometimes start to need some maintenance, usually on the surround material.) If you can find some, the old Energy Take 2s from the early 90s were really good; that's what I'm still using myself. One of the 'Energy' labels is kind of peeling off, but that's about the only thing wrong with them. I believe I've had them now for just about twenty years, and they sound as good now as they did back then.

The newish Take Classics are supposed to be quite similar to the old Take 2s, but I haven't heard them. They should be easy to find, and are nice and cheap.

So, I'm kind of with tuffalo in that I generally just say go for 2.0 or 2.1, and at $400 you can throw together a really solid 2.1 setup.

The problem you're going to have is finding a halfway solid 5.1 speaker set and also having enough money leftover for something to actually power them. I couldn't find a way to do it for $400.

The closest I got was this this set of speakers from Monoprice that has been popping up on audio review sites. It's exactly the same speakers as the Energy Take Classic 5.1 package, but rebadged for monoprice and $150 less.

And then you'd have to combine that with a very budget 5.1 receiver. That's doable, particularly if you go for a model from last year. Something like the Pioneer VSX-522-K that's down in the $170 range. But then you're still at over $420. Probably closer to $440 by the time you get done with shipping.

2.1, or really good 2.0 on the other hand, that you can do pretty damn well for $400. Especially if you have some space to work with.

*

Malor wrote:

The newish Take Classics are supposed to be quite similar to the old Take 2s, but I haven't heard them. They should be easy to find, and are nice and cheap.

As covered above, don't buy the actual Energy branded set. Monoprice sells the identical same speaker set rebadged for $150 less.

And I do not agree with the Home Theater in a Box idea anymore. There was a time when those things made sense. Now, they absolutely do not. You can do better for the same or less money, you just have to work at component selection a little bit.

Malor wrote:

The other is a set of analog cables to a multichannel analog input on the receiver. If you've got any kind of recent PC, this will usually sound quite good, and will have no lag. But the problem is that it's getting hard to find cheap AV receivers with multichannel analog ins.

That's what I did, a few years ago, and I'm really pleased with the results. I had to search around for a while for a multi-channel input receiver in a price range I could afford. I eventually settled on a
Yamaha HTR-6130 (I paid about $180 for mine)
and it's worked beautifully for my PC's 5.1 surround sound environment. I can use full size speakers, a subwoofer, and it also has a headphone adapter if I feel the need to dial it down a notch. Just be careful to do research if you go this route; I've seen $1000+ "super-receivers" not have the multi-channel analogs, so check those specs.

EDIT: I should clarify that I'm using an Soundblaster X-FI gamer card with this setup, and not integrated audio. I've not had good luck with motherboard audio solutions, so I've stuck to secondary cards.

Just by way of comparison, I'm using a Denon 2809CI that I got for a huge discount when the -10 models started to ship. I think I got it for $400. And I'm driving a set of Energy Take 2s with that: after somewhere close to twenty years of constant use, they still sound fabulous. I'm driving it with one of the really good Realtek motherboard audio offerings, I think the 898. There are two high-end Realtek chipsets I know of, the 889 and 898, and then a regular-quality one, the 892, which is usually in most motherboards.

I haven't heard the 892, but both the 889 and 898 sound really good to my aging ears. And the compatibility has been outstanding. And getting true bitperfect out of either, if you've got a good receiver with room correction (which doesn't usually work with analog ins), is very easy. I assume that's probably also true of the 892, but I don't know for sure.

As covered above, don't buy the actual Energy branded set. Monoprice sells the identical same speaker set rebadged for $150 less.

And I do not agree with the Home Theater in a Box idea anymore. There was a time when those things made sense. Now, they absolutely do not. You can do better for the same or less money, you just have to work at component selection a little bit.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Monoprice speakers, and I'll defer to your more current expertise on HTIBs. They were really good a few years ago, but I haven't been following them at all. I've solved the problem so completely, at least for myself, that I don't pay very much attention to that market anymore.

Oh, one other thought, back to the main body of the post: there are very few purchases in life that can last you as long as speakers, and there's absolutely nothing that will have more impact on the overall sound quality. You definitely don't need to spend a zillion bucks, but make room in your budget for quality, because they last such a very long time. And the used market is wonderful; make sure to shop on Audiogon for second-hand stuff.

Oh, I just went to look at Audiogon, and it looks like they've gone more upscale -- I remember the gear there as being much cheaper. Maybe not such a good pointer.

If you can get an optical output, you might also look into surround sound headsets.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Oh man, get those Emotivas then. I can just about guarantee you will love them and won't return them.

I'd want an amplifier to go with those, right? Any recommendations there?

Malor wrote:

The awkward part is that, if you want full fidelity, you have two basic options. The first is HDMI sound. Most video cards have an HDMI soundcard built right in, but this limits your screen resolution to 1920x1200, and usually induces some lag; receivers are kind of lagtastic. The other is a set of analog cables to a multichannel analog input on the receiver.

I'm still running a 1680x1050 monitor and don't plan to upgrade anytime soon, so the resolution limit isn't a big deal. The motherboard also has an optical audio port -- but I take it that compromises quality?

Malor wrote:

There are two high-end Realtek chipsets I know of, the 889 and 898, and then a regular-quality one, the 892, which is usually in most motherboards.

After a little more research, it looks like I'm using the 889 chipset. So that should be good then.

Kurrelgyre wrote:

If you can get an optical output, you might also look into surround sound headsets.

That's actually the status quo -- I'm using Steelseries Siberia V2's with a little USB widget for pseudo-surround. But would like to take the headphones off sometimes.

Thanks for all the help thus far, everybody! Right now I'm leaning toward getting the Emotivas tuffalo recommended, running them in a 2.0 or 2.1 configuration for a while, and expanding the setup into full surround somewhere down the road.

The Monoprice 9774's are still tempting, but if I start stretching my budget a little, I can't be sure where it'll stop.

The 889 is really good. I did have a problem, on my motherboard, with the headphone output being noisy until I plugged speakers in, but it sounded great after that.

I believe those chips will do some kind of live Dolby Digital encoding. Basically, there's room on an optical cable for two uncompressed sound channels, left and right. Dolby Digital (and, later, DTS) breaks that into multiple, lossily-encoded channels. The last time I experimented with this was with the Xonar D2X, and I thought the sound was laggy, and didn't sound very good. However, many receivers will take higher bitrates, 96 or 192Khz. At least in theory, that would give room for four full-fidelity channels at 96, and 8 at 192. But I think the media companies refused to allow manufacturers to do more than stereo, even though they absolutely have the bandwidth for more.

Analog cables will definitely work, and have no lag. And the quality should be quite good.

The Emotiva's are powered monitors, so you wouldn't need an amplifier.

Malor wrote:

The 889 is really good. I did have a problem, on my motherboard, with the headphone output being noisy until I plugged speakers in, but it sounded great after that.

Huh. That sounds familiar -- shortly after I built this computer, I found that the headphone output was annoyingly noisy, and have avoided using it ever since. I'll have to see whether the issue is that easy to fix.

Malor wrote:

But I think the media companies refused to allow manufacturers to do more than stereo, even though they absolutely have the bandwidth for more.

So there's a bandwidth issue, but it's a deliberately manufactured one? Charming.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

The Emotiva's are powered monitors, so you wouldn't need an amplifier

Okay, decision made. I just ordered a pair of airmotiv 4's, and will report once they're here and I've gotten a chance to try them out a bit.

I'll be interested to hear what you think!

At one point, I hooked up a Sony receiver via optical and was completely frustrated when there was no 5.1 option in PC games unless you use the analog 5.1 outputs (of which my receiver didn't have inputs for. The Blu-ray software could do 5.1, but not the games. So, I'm probably a bit biased. At the very least, you went with the easier choice and won't have to worry about cables everywhere.

After FedEx' second try, and a quick run to Radio Shack for cables, they're here and working.

And I'm liking them a lot.

Nice.

Listen to this and be sure to set it to 1080p for the best audio quality. For some reason, the version that I got with the CD is different than all the YouTube versions. I actually like it better but can't find it anywhere on YouTube. This one is still good:

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Listen to this and be sure to set it to 1080p for the best audio quality.

Ooh. Yeah, that does sound good on these.