Obama says it straight in Israel...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/obama-visits-israel/view-from-the-crowd-israeli-students-cheer-obama-s-call-for-peace-and-even-for-palestinian-statehood.premium-1.511196/view-from-the-crowd-israeli-students-cheer-obama-s-call-for-peace-and-even-for-palestinian-statehood.premium-1.511196

President Barack Obama told over a thousand young Israelis why he thinks the Jewish state is one of the most amazing places on earth, how he understands their people’s ancient history and modern redemption, and reassured them that in their hour of need, America will be there.

The crowded went wild.

But then he went on to tell them that occupying another people was not the way forward, and to the surprise of many journalists looking on, they continued to applaud heartily.

“The Palestinian people’s right to self-determination and justice must also be recognized,” Obama said. “Put yourself in their shoes – look at the world through their eyes. It is not fair that a Palestinian child cannot grow up in a state of her own, and lives with the presence of a foreign army that controls the movements of her parents every single day. It is not just when settler violence against Palestinians goes unpunished. It is not right to prevent Palestinians from farming their lands; to restrict a student’s ability to move around the West Bank; or to displace Palestinian families from their home. Neither occupation nor expulsion is the answer. Just as Israelis built a state in their homeland, Palestinians have a right to be a free people in their own land.”

That's the start. There's plenty more to that article. Some of his comments weren't as well received as others, but it seems that the crowd was split even on those which didn't generate as much enthusiasm. This is as close as a sitting President has gotten to plainly stating my own views, and I think it's a damn sight further than any sitting President has gone in stating their opinion in general. I'm still trying to soak it in...

But then how can the US work to bring about the second coming of Christ?

Is your avatar's name Buzz?
Buzz Killington?

I'm assuming at least a few Republicans have already responded to the President's speech by condemning him for not fully supporting Israel and "turning his back on an ally"?

Kehama wrote:

I'm assuming at least a few Republicans have already responded to the President's speech by condemning him for not fully supporting Israel and "turning his back on an ally"?

Are they an official allied nation? Someone was saying on NPR last night that they were a favored nation, blah blah blah, but not an officially sanctioned ally.

The problem with issues between Israel and Palestine, is that it involves Israel and Palestine sitting down and talking civilly to eachother. If we could just eliminate the need for Israel and Palestine to have to see eachother, it would get easier.

Demosthenes wrote:

Are they an official allied nation? Someone was saying on NPR last night that they were a favored nation, blah blah blah, but not an officially sanctioned ally.

Hmm... never heard that. I just always hear everybody and their brother refer to Israel as "our ally". No idea if it was actually in writing somewhere, but I had assumed it was.

We have many treaties with Israel, and with many European powers. The US has a small military presence in Israel, a radar installation.

That installation is pretty important to NATO.

groan wrote:

Is your avatar's name Buzz?
Buzz Killington?

LouZiffer wrote:

Quote:

Neither occupation nor expulsion is the answer. Just as Israelis built a state in their homeland, Palestinians have a right to be a free people in their own land.”

Naftali Bennet is also against occupation/expulsion even though he's extremely far right on the political map . He offered annexation of territory C and offering citizenship to its Palestinian inhabitant.

All I saw on the news that Obama said was "Influence your leaders" . This statement is so neutral that he didn't offend either side. As a typical right wing voter like a high percent of the population I'm going to influence my leaders by voting for anyone that will pull the government right. I don't think there would be peace this generation so it's pointless to waste time on it.

I recently thought about how can Israel be blamed for the failure of peace negation. The peace negotiation started in 1993 and the Palestinian refused very generous offers . The negotiation started in government #25 the current government is the 33rd. The seat of the prime minister was swapped between at least 5 people and 3 political parties. The Palestinian president was replaced only once and the current prime minister doesn't even recognize Israel's existence. The current majority government of the Palestinian for took control of Gaza by force and fired rockets at Israeli civilian population.

If both sides are just pulling apart then there won't be a peace agreement for a long time. My opinion is that the Palestinians don't have an interest in ending the conflict because they are getting a lot of foriegn aid because it continues. They have to keep their supporting party interested and keep their people from revolting. Life is not easy in the West Bank and Gaza.

As far as I know the political situation haven't changed (same guy in power) and the security situation took a turn to the worst. The Palestinians are now engaged in rock and Molotov Cocktail throwing. There was also a report of gun fire attacks against civilians. I know a 3 year old got critically hurt by an accident that was caused by rock throwing (not sure if she's still alive).

All I know is that living in the middle east has some rent involved and the land lord accept payment in blood. Some countries have hurricanes and earthquakes , we have neighbors who like to shoot at our general direction . So while some countries invest in seismic sensors and weather satellite and storm shelters we invest in rocket interception, gas masks and bomb shelters.

As far as I heard Obama came to Israel to raise his approval rating here (not sure why needs it). Obama is not well liked in Israel . We respect him but many look at him with distrust. Considering the fact he didn't dirty his hand in the peace process too much he turned out pretty decent. The current government is not likely to do his bidding if he demands another settlement freeze or something like that. The Likud turned even more right winged this election. The Jewish home may pull out of the government . Yesh Atid might agree but it won't be able to sit in an alternative government.

Benjamin Netanyahu will try to get his approval rating up and then go to another election. Currently he's losing to Yesh Atid . He'll have to wait about 7-8 month for the Labor party chairman election hoping the current leader loses and then he might be able to maneuver out of the current government. In the current government Bennet and Lapid won't give Netanyahu much freedom and the peace process is very far from their political agenda. I also forgot to mention Avigdor Lieberman's party which make out 10 seats out of the Likud 31 and they usually get out of the government at the moment they hear about any kind of peace talks.

In conclusion the short version - nothing is going to happen in the peace process!

KingGorilla wrote:

The problem with issues between Israel and Palestine, is that it involves Israel and Palestine sitting down and talking civilly to eachother. If we could just eliminate the need for Israel and Palestine to have to see eachother, it would get easier.

Twitter Peace Talks! You heard it here first.

I still don't see why we can't just tell all the sides to go pack sand, pull all funding, and have them beat on one another until they have nothing left but their hate and the empty promises of their respective religions to comfort them.

Honestly. What business is it of ours if they want to continue this nonsense?

I find it fascinating that the right-wing in the US clings to the myth of the welfare queen, and apparently the right-wing in Israel clings to the myth of the foreign aid queen.

Paleocon wrote:

I still don't see why we can't just tell all the sides to go pack sand, pull all funding, and have them beat on one another until they have nothing left but their hate and the empty promises of their respective religions to comfort them.

Honestly. What business is it of ours if they want to continue this nonsense?

It'd be pretty one-sided unless we gave the Palestinians a bunch of weapons to even the playing field - which I would totally support. I assume the reason that it's our "business" is the money given to US politicians by people who have an economic/personal/whatever interest in the region.

Paleocon wrote:

I still don't see why we can't just tell all the sides to go pack sand, pull all funding, and have them beat on one another until they have nothing left but their hate and the empty promises of their respective religions to comfort them.

Honestly. What business is it of ours if they want to continue this nonsense?

Because that way lies WW3; and it will be a nuclear war. Israel is a nuke nation. The only thing keeping Israel from being attacked from damn near all sides is the threat of American and nuclear retaliation. There are lots of people alive who still remember the Irgun. And unfortunately, just like in America, the lunatics are winning elections in the countries that hate Israel. Whereas in the days of Jimmy Carter, you had people across the region that could be reasoned with, now...it's a wasteland of crazy.

That said; I know Palestinians who are the 4th generation born in a "refugee camp" in their own damn country, while Russians are living on what had been in the Palestinian's family land since the times before Jesus was born. To an agrarian people like the Palestinians; losing the land of your fathers and your father's fathers; it is an ache and a pain and a loss that I cannot begin to describe. If you could hear the timbre of their voice when they speak of it, how they describe the flowers of the olive trees planted by an ancestor so long ago that the tree was ancient when his grandfather was a boy; how they are forbidden to even go near that area because they are Arabs...it's heartbreaking. And it's easy for that sort of emotion to turn into anger. And there's millions of stories like that. The Intifada is full of angry young people with no hope and no future. It is becoming a nation of nihilists led by rage-filled lunatics that would rather destroy his enemy than help his people.

There is no easy solution to Palestine and Israel. I fear that the only thing that will bring Israel to the table is if another nation in that area becomes a nuclear power. And the Palestinians need a real negotiator who has the power of the Palestinian people behind her; and they do not have that now.

How it gets fixed? I, for one, volunteer to go over and lead talks. I'm taking Sister Bernadette Mary with me. And her ruler. I've got a loaded nun, and I'm not afraid to use her.

Paleocon wrote:

I still don't see why we can't just tell all the sides to go pack sand, pull all funding, and have them beat on one another until they have nothing left but their hate and the empty promises of their respective religions to comfort them.

Honestly. What business is it of ours if they want to continue this nonsense?

If the Jews can't rebuilt the Temple of David, Jesus won't come back. I wish I were kidding.

duckideva wrote:

Because that way lies WW3; and it will be a nuclear war. Israel is a nuke nation. The only thing keeping Israel from being attacked from damn near all sides is the threat of American and nuclear retaliation. There are lots of people alive who still remember the Irgun. And unfortunately, just like in America, the lunatics are winning elections in the countries that hate Israel. Whereas in the days of Jimmy Carter, you had people across the region that could be reasoned with, now...it's a wasteland of crazy.

Continually backing Israel also allows them to never take any talk of compromise seriously. Because they know we'll back them on everything short of dropping a nuke on Tehran, they have absolutely no incentive to actually deal with the Palestinians.

Removing any and all support will put Israel in a situation where they will have two choices: work towards a peaceful solution for the Palestinians or eventually fight (or, more likely, preemptively strike) everyone around them. If Israel chooses the later then they can then deal with the consequences of their actions.

We've f*cked over tens of millions of people for generations by putting "people across the region that could be reasoned with" in power and keeping them there. That didn't result in anything but oppressive dictatorships. It's no longer acceptable for us to say that a couple of hundred million people have to be f*cked over just so eight million Israelis don't have to acknowledge and address the elephant in their living room. That thinking is what is crazy.

I'm totally OK with those countries electing whoever they feel represents their interests best now. They deserve the opportunity to figure finally out what they want to do. It's up to them if they think that attacking Israel will be best for their country or, much more likely, addressing the massive problems of civil war, political instability, corruption, unemployment, etc. that they're facing.

Mursi is much more focused on fending off internal political challenges and keeping the wheels of Egypt's economy from falling off than he is rolling tanks into the Gaza strip. Jordan is much more concerned with Syria falling apart than it is in attacking Israel. Lebanon's prime minister just resigned mostly of the chaos and sectarian issues flowing from Syria and, even if that wasn't happening, 2006 showed they're not much of a military threat to Israel. And Iran, the supposed worst of the worst, doesn't even have the capability to fulfill it's alleged threat of annihilation.

In short, it isn't 1948, 1956, 1967, or even 1973 anymore. Trying to claim that Israel will be invaded as soon as America walks away is simply disingenuous. None of Israels neighbors even have the capability to attack it, let alone the burning desire to do so.

So, I have been reading The Complete Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.

We could seal off Israel and Palestine in an impenetrable bubble until the Sun goes red giant in a few billion years. The key to open the bubble will get shot into orbit.

I don't think there would be peace this generation so it's pointless to waste time on it.

I really like you Niseg, so take this with that in mind: That is a really scary thing to say. Things that would be to the betterment of everyone, even if unrealistic in the current time, should still be worked on by people to help lay the groundwork for that future later. If no one under the age of 20 ever sees anything about an avenue to peace, then peace will be not possible for the next generation ever. Prepare for war as needed so that your people can be ready for the worst, that's sound governmental strategy, but every avenue to peace should still be explored, even if unlikely, too.