GWJ Parenting: Join the Crowd?

Looking for some sorely needed advice from some of you parenting vets.

I have a 3 year old son, Émile who is in preschool. Last month, the kid he played with the most "Victor" left for another preschool closer to his home. Since then, my son has primarily been playing with girls. They play things like Lego Duplo, etc.

Whenever he tries to integrate and play with the other boys, they sort of exclude him. The reason being, there is one kid in the class who is pushing 5 years old. Much older than everyone else. He kind of leads the boys and has them all playing Power Rangers and other things which my wife and I feel are a little too mature for a 3-year old. Things he hasn't been exposed to yet (my son still likes Yo Gabba Gabba, SuperWHY, Pirate Jake, Little Bill, etc.). So because my son has never watched Power Rangers or the other shows and I haven't played with these types of toys with him, he doesn't understand the proper "way" to play Power Rangers. So the other kids get frustrated and ostracize him.

My son doesn't seem to show any residual effects from being pushed away from the group however when it happens at the school he gets upset and hits or cries, so I know it bothers him (my son is a very sensitive kid). He does bounce back quick though and for those types of things he seems to have a short term memory which is good, otherwise he wouldn't continue trying to play with them, right? The concern is that my son has pdd-nos and has difficulty expressing his feelings or revealing what he's thinking so there's no way to be 100% sure.

Part of me wants him to get along with the kids and play properly. This part of me wants to go to Toys R Us and get him a few Power Rangers toys to model the behavior with him so he can play with the boys at school. This part of me put on a Power Rangers TV show the other day just to see how he would respond to it and he watched it for about 5 minutes and then lost interest. Admittedly, I had trouble following it. This part of me also wonders just how much experiences like this in our childhood shape us for the rest of our lives and will these kids pushing my son away result in some behavioral/personality issues with my son later down the road? In essence, at this point in time is it better to fit in? Would any possible damage done by being constantly pushed away at such a young age far outweigh my caving in and letting my son experience a style of play/television I feel is too violent and mature for him?

The other part of me feels that I should stick to my guns and shouldn't expose my son to this type of material. Granted, by all accounts it seems this 5-year old kid is far behind in regards to academic interests. My son leads story time and song time, reading and singing to the other kids (part of his pdd-nos I think, he's memorized a veritable catalogue of books and songs), and is already doing basic arithmetic (knows subtraction and addition with single digit numbers) where the 5-year old kid stutters his way through the alphabet. The other part of me thinks maybe it's fortunate that my son isn't playing with this kid.

Still another part of me thinks I just need to relax. That everything will work itself out. That preschool is such a tiny stop on the journey of life none of this will matter in as much as 6 months from now and my son will find his way and as he advances through preschool to kindergarten, he will hook up with kindred spirits and all will be as it should.

Anyone else deal with these types of things with young kids? How did you manage to navigate it successfully?

Still another part of me thinks I just need to relax. That everything will work itself out.

I'd say this. Trust your instincts. Let him be who he wants to be and be the parent you want to be. The big boy toys will come soon enough (too soon actually) and you'll miss the days of SuperWhy.

LockAndLoad wrote:
Still another part of me thinks I just need to relax. That everything will work itself out.

I'd say this. Trust your instincts. Let him be who he wants to be and be the parent you want to be. The big boy toys will come soon enough (too soon actually) and you'll miss the days of SuperWhy.

FWIW, I agree with LockandLoad. Unless you start seeing signs that this is really hurting him, I would simply wait. It sounds like you think he's coping. Just keep a good eye on him.

There's always a bigger kid/kid who's allowed to do more. Him being able to handle that situation with aplomb is a skill he's going to need as he grows. I wouldn't change your household's media rules just because of what someone else is doing in their house.

I agree with Lock, trust your instincts. I will say that the ongoing ostracization you are describing, no matter how gracefully your child appears to be handling the situation now, would be a worry for me. Learning to cope with people and situations is a part of growing up. However, the other side of this coin is that allowing this one older child to continue to dominate the younger boys might lead to a dangerous bullying situation.

Have you discussed this issue with your child's teachers or the preschool administrator? If this older child is being held back for developmental issues and would not normal be in your child's class, I'd say it the preschool's responsibly to make sure he's not becoming a negative influence.

Thanks for the responses. Seems to be unanimous. I went to Babies R Us to get some food for my daughter and decided to stop in Toys R Us for curiosity's sake. Turns out, the age on the Power Rangers toys are 4+. It made me lighten up a bit on the issue as my son is closer to 4 than he is 3 but I'll be damned if that show didn't seem targeted to children much older than 4. Or I could just be a sucky judge of children's television.

ringsnort wrote:

Have you discussed this issue with your child's teachers or the preschool administrator? If this older child is being held back for developmental issues and would not normal be in your child's class, I'd say it the preschool's responsibly to make sure he's not becoming a negative influence.

Yes we've discussed. This particular preschool is a bit unique. My wife works for large health insurance company and they have a preschool on the first floor that is suited for kids age 3-months to around 8-years (for kids whose parents work late and need a place to go after public school). Each class has an age range, a curriculum, and has certified teachers. The one thing about this school is that a parent can choose to hold a child back from moving to the next class if that parent feels the child would be better suited in the class he/she is currently in. So the mother of this 5-year old has requested that her son stay in the class my son is in where the age range is 3-4 years old. He should be in the 5-6 year old class.

My wife does have a bit of pull and I'm sure might be able to have the kid moved but this brings up the issue of my son's coping skills and may set a dangerous precedent of mommy/daddy solving all of junior's problems for him. But is this issue really that deep?

This parenting thing...
IMAGE(http://hehpic.com/eD.jpg)

To give some context to my previous post (and my own very limited experience), we've had my 2 year old daughter in preschool since she was 8 months old. During this time there's been the expected turnover in terms of the kids entering and exiting the program, but at no time has her school allowed more than a six month difference in age between the oldest and youngest child in a given class. This policy has made for an exceptionally stable and friendly environment for play and learning that my daughter loves.

At the very young ages we're talking about, I don't see parental intervention having a developmental downside. If anything, protecting your child from an administrative issue (a mix of inappropriately aged children in the same class) is just common sense. It's no different that if you found a safety issue and reasonable expected the school to take appropriate action.

FSeven wrote:

My wife does have a bit of pull and I'm sure might be able to have the kid moved but this brings up the issue of my son's coping skills and may set a dangerous precedent of mommy/daddy solving all of junior's problems for him. But is this issue really that deep?

I be the first to admit that I have no idea as to when parental intervention becomes a negative for our children's development. It's a valid and very serious concern. However, in this instance, I think any action you decide to take is warranted and reasonable. Just my opinion.

That 4+ is a rating for the toy, not the show. It tends to reflect the size of breakable parts, motor skills in relation to pointy bits, that kind of stuff.

Maybe start them on something 'lighter', but in the same vein. Both of my kids enjoy Digimon, Season 1 (season 2 has a weird dark subplot with death and complex themes like redemption). They get the hero/villain dynamic, and if there is anything that is a freaky, they 'get' that it's a cartoon. They weren't as comfortable with Aquabats because they were 'real'.

YMMV, but the drawn element might give you some middle ground in terms of the content you're showing. Just a thought.

Disclaimer: I'm not a parent, but do have 12 years in child development, all with kids with developmental delays of various kinds.

1. Parents are always the best decisionmakers for a kiddo. Trust yourself, even when you're indecisive and even when "experts" tell you otherwise (this is my favorite thing to tell parents).
2. Girls tend to be more socially advanced than boys. If he's having trouble relating already, their better social skills may be partially making up for his own difficulties. Girls are the best social skills teachers for my kids with ASD's.
3. There is a world of difference developmentally between a 5 year old and a 3 year old. Particularly if they have different temperaments to begin with. Daycare/"preschool" staff have often noted to me how kids tend to open up once they have their turn to be the "big kid."
4. What matters isn't so much what happens to the kid, but how the event is interpreted by the kid. Think of it as a chance to get some professional help in helping your kid to learn to deal with the social frustrations he'll inevitably come across. If he has pdd (which in kids as young as 3 is oftentimes a placeholder diagnosis for later) he'll likely be dealing with this his whole life (even us "neurotypicals" do). Now's the best time to get some reframing and coping skills going so it DOESN'T affect him and he's more resilient later on.
5. Though he's socially branching out towards other kids now, he's still getting most of his social self-worth from you and mom. It's more important for you to accept him than for the other kids to as parents are the social foundation other relationships are built upon. Thinking about that, it makes me wonder what kind of message he hears (which are often different than we want kids to hear) if you push him to play power rangers when he's not interested in it. You know your little guy though, so just think on it.
6. The 5 year old stutters his way through academics but has power on the playground because he's oldest. Feel sorry for him.

I've had similar experiences with my son who turns five on sunday. He had trouble fitting in since age three due to being taller than average and having excellent motor skills for his age which often led him to be mistaken for at least a year older. Trouble is his speech has been lagging so when kids one or two years older approach him and try to interact they quickly give up and of course some bully him because they think he's mentally challenged.
One kid in his kindergarten class was particularly bad and even had the nerve to try and punch my son right in front of me! Because I myself had a pretty horrible time at school as a child I reacted poorly in a way I'm not at all proud of - I deflected the swing, locked eyes with him and snarled something to the effect of "What the h-ll do you think you're doing you little sh-t?! " which stunned the kid for a few seconds before he fled. Like I said, not my proudest moment. For quite a while after that he gave my son a wide berth and when he saw me he would busy himself elsewhere real quick. What's worse is I found out that same week that not only did that kids dad own the pizza parlor where we eat frequently but he was also dying from cancer (the dad that is) and the family was really struggling with him hospitalized and his wife trying to keep the restaurant going while taking care of three kids. Later that year he died and after that the kid changed completely and as far as I know isn't bullying anymore at the kindergarten.

Sorry for the rambling, but what I was trying to say is that since then I have learned that while our kids are the victims, they are not the ones with problems. Almost all the bullies I've come across as a parent come from broken homes or have parents that won't or can't care for them properly. That is a reason, not an excuse, I know, but the point is that as long as we love our kids and make them feel loved and protected they are the ones who come out the winners even if things feel bleak right now.

My advice is to let your kid be who he is and do what he wants to do and just support him in whatever he chooses to do. That way, if he feels confident outside kindergarten it might help him deal with it better.
I tried to help and motivate my son to make friends outside of kindergarten instead when it looked like he wasn't fitting in well with the kids there. Thanks to videogames, which he excels at due to his motor skills, he has found common ground with older kids in our neighborhood and lately he has turned out to be very good at drawing as well which seems to help him express himself and even earned him some respect and attention from kids who used to tease him for his speech before.

Anyway, hope everything turns out for the best!

Let your son be who he wants to be. Our son was the only boy in his early day care for a long time. There will be no lasting issues. One thing I learned with my son, they have to learn to work out conflict. Encourage him to use his words rather than hitting. It will take some time as it is a concept 3 yr olds haven't learned yet. Good luck!

stupidhaiku wrote:

There is a world of difference developmentally between a 5 year old and a 3 year old.

This. I'm surprised the preschool allows it; average academic inclination isn't the only reason why young children are separated into age groups.

Personally, I agree with the "do what feels right to you" sentiment.

FSeven wrote:

My wife does have a bit of pull and I'm sure might be able to have the kid moved but this brings up the issue of my son's coping skills and may set a dangerous precedent of mommy/daddy solving all of junior's problems for him.

He's 3. You're supposed to solve all his problems for him, at least this for type of thing.

FSeven wrote:

This parenting thing...
IMAGE(http://hehpic.com/eD.jpg)

Welcome to the club.

Thanks so much for your time and advice all. Lot's of good stuff here. I'm the biggest questioner of my own capabilities as a parent but from the feedback here I think maybe I'm not doing as bad as I thought.

I can't wait to show this thread to my wife. She will love it.

You're doing great! Even asking for advice is a good step in navigating being a parent. It takes a village, etc. etc.

I would caution against using pull to get the older kid moved to a different class. I would recommend rather, to bring up any specific instances of issues that your son and the older boy have had, and bring those to the teachers' / caregivers' attention. A meeting would be appropriate. That way it's an official issue, rather than a behind the scenes maneuvering. Yours may not be the only complaint, so it might help to speak up about it and see if anyone else is having the same issues. Then let the administration deal with the other parent and see about moving him up. He will have to move up eventually, given his age.

All the advice in here has been great (my gosh what an amazing place GWJ is!!). I agree with it all and +1 to pretty much every post.

No, you're definitely not doing bad - you seem to be right on tap and like the rest of us learning as we go.

One suggestion I'll add - what about setting up a play date with "Victor"? If he just changed centers to be closer to home he might not live too far. We used to do this with some of our kids' friends who moved. Your son _will_ be fine and make new friends, but it might be nice to let him see his little buddy once in a while.

I think LockAndLoad had it right in the very first post. You're doing fine.

Let your 3 year old be 3. Playing with girls is not bad at all and very likely good (I've enjoyed it my whole life...oh, well, for somewhat different reasons). It isn't ideal that he gets so upset by that, and perhaps this is the thing to bring up with the teachers. They don't need to tell the older boys not to play Power Rangers, but they can almost certainly help coaching your son on better ways to react and the other kids on how to be more inclusive. If you bring it up to them, talk to them about your concerns, and ask politely that they try to address the broader issues in play, I bet they'd be more cognizant of what's going on.

One suspicion I have is that the nearly 5 year old has older brothers who taught him how to "play" Power Rangers (and may even exclude him for not playing correctly). We see this with our 4 year old (well, in a week) who has learned all about Star Wars from our 7 year old. He doesn't really understand all the play, but he wants to emulate his older brother.

On the other hand, it could just be he spends all his time watching TV.

Burnt Toast wrote:

One suggestion I'll add - what about setting up a play date with "Victor"?

We've done that twice already. The play dates went swimmingly.

firesloth wrote:

One suspicion I have is that the nearly 5 year old has older brothers who taught him how to "play" Power Rangers (and may even exclude him for not playing correctly). We see this with our 4 year old (well, in a week) who has learned all about Star Wars from our 7 year old. He doesn't really understand all the play, but he wants to emulate his older brother.

On the other hand, it could just be he spends all his time watching TV. ;)

He doesn't have siblings but comes from a single parent home (mommy). I can only speculate as to whether or not he is watching TV all day. I won't give my answer as it will just prove my wife right (she thinks the show Dan Vs. is about me. Both our names are Dan, we both have the same "JERK" shirt, we both hate the world, we both have pathetic facial hair, we both have dark hair with a receding hairline, and we're both big jerks.)

Where can I get one of those shirts ?

I wouldn't worry overly about him spending more time with girls than boys. And I wouldn't worry too much about the power rangers thing; it's a phase. When my son was your son's age, I think I let him watch Thomas the Train, and Sid the Science Kid, but I didn't allow any commercial television unless I was there to fast forward through the commercials, and since I don't like most children's programming, he didn't see a lot of it. (That said, he could have all the Bugs Bunny, Merry Melodies and Animaniacs he could stand...so apparently I'm ok with cartoon violence, cross-dressing and potty humor.)

At three/four, I would just let your little dude experience things and give him a safe place to talk about how he feels about those experiences. That said; I would not be at all happy if my three year old class had a five year old in it. It throws the entire dynamic of the social order out of whack, and five year olds are logarithmically more advanced than a 3 year old, just as a 7 year old is more advanced than a 5 year old. Those age differences are way too large.

As far as entertainment I might steer him towards that is commercial, and probably widely known among his peer group: the various lego programs...there's a star wars one, and a ninja one, and a indiana jones type one...I dunno what it is about lego shows, but kids love them, and they'll play out the story lines. I don't know how you feel about him playing games; but minecraft is huge, HUGE, with kids from your son's age up to ...erm, old people. My son (10) and his "girlfriend", play minecraft together here at the house, and when her mom comes to get her with her little brother (3/4), he wants to jump right in to their world, he knows all the characters, loves to build things, and apparently, minecraft is "the" game on the playground now. They take turns being Steve and Creeper, or something, I dunno. Kids, who knows what they're thinking.

As to the whole Parenthood:WTF?, yeah...we're all there, all the time. No worries.