League Of Legends Catch All

Mr Crinkle wrote:
Natus wrote:

But regarding wards, NO ONE buys wards, or very few teammates. It's crazy. Now I buy wards no matter what role I am.

Just a matter of ELO. Play well over enough games, and you'll get past the ELO-of-no-warding. In the mean time, play gank junglers and destroy people.

Last week there was a Taric completely crapping himself because the enemy support (Soraka) was using pink wards and destroying the ones he put out with Sightstone. He became offended at the prospect that he buy a pink ward to counter, or pay attention to where Soraka was placing the pinks. I often get around the pinks by putting my wards in somewhat unlikely but still useful places-maybe venture a bit more up river, or ward closer to their jungle, not just right in the bush like 99% do.

But as for laning with an AP "carry" that makes sense. Yi at least has a poke with his little Flash Dance. I would probably quit if someone picked one of those as the carry bottom for the very reason you stated they cannot get too aggressive early on against the ranged carries especially the ones with decent CC, or with a support with good CC. Trynd is a key offender, wait til 6 and then dive-dive-dive.

But when I see Cait or Trist just kind of chilling out passive farming for 15 minutes, it just makes my blood boil because as the support I am falling way behind with just sitting there and not getting kills or assists.

KingGorilla wrote:

But when I see Cait or Trist just kind of chilling out passive farming for 15 minutes, it just makes my blood boil because as the support I am falling way behind with just sitting there and not getting kills or assists.

Is that you, Nunu?

Cyranix wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

But when I see Cait or Trist just kind of chilling out passive farming for 15 minutes, it just makes my blood boil because as the support I am falling way behind with just sitting there and not getting kills or assists.

Is that you, Nunu?

Most common when I am Zilean or Sona. It really grinds me because as Zilean, getting the Slow at level 1 effectively stops an opponent in their tracks if they skip boots for 2 and a half seconds, or 3 seconds at level 2. And then with Sona, if I can get the Q up to level 2, that is essentially like buying a Long Sword, before the other team has a chance to armor up.

Not all champs can get out early, Twitch needs some care and cannot get too brazen early on. But on another note, if your carry is always losing ground and and never punching back, you are in for a rough road.

Awful game yesterday with Raven, Fuzzball, Cathadan, and a pubbie. How bad?

IMAGE(http://faunaphile.smugmug.com/Other/Random-stuff/i-3kbNnfV/0/M/lolugh-M.jpg)

Mindnumbingly. It was one of those games that went so bad in so many ways I don't even really know what happened. Turns out I was right about that Ez - he had AD marks and quints. Lesson learned...

Jow wrote:

Turns out I was right about that Ez - he had AD marks and quints. Lesson learned...

I was under the impression that was standard for pretty much all AD carries? It's what I've been running since early S2 without really feeling any need to change it ever since.

I've run AD quints with APen marks pretty much forever.

Jow wrote:

I've run AD quints with APen marks pretty much forever.

Used to do that, but switched over to all flat AD quints and marks.

I'm like Jow... why would you go with AD quints and marks over the APen?

looked up a couple of other GWJers to compare - none of em run Apen marks for AD either... did this shift happen about the time they nerfed Pen runes in general?

My thinking on it has always been that with supports and ADs alike going at least flat armor seals and at least the AD often taking all points in the armor mastery that grabbing the Apen early helps with harrass.

I run a mix of both, but it is mostly Attack Damage.

I still have Pen runes but that's only because I keep forgetting to swap them out.

ulath7 wrote:

I'm like Jow... why would you go with AD quints and marks over the APen?

If you math-craft it, APen will always have you doing more damage late game, but having flat AD can will amplify your damage against targets early game making for an easier time getting CS and a more threatening auto-attack harass against your opponents. Over the past year the meta has shifted away from long games and towards shorter games with more aggressive snowballing gameplay which is better facilitated by flat AD runes.

Soraka is a pretty good counter to an an ad carry with flat AD runes, but nobody likes to play her anymore.

If you run APen marks/runes and get pushed to tower, you will miss a lot of CS. That extra 15 AD makes a big difference for last hitting.

APen does more damage to champions later in the game, but the extra AD will secure you the CS lead to get you ahead, which is much more important for me.

OK, so could the same thing be said for an AP build? go for more AP and scrap the MPen?

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

KingGorilla wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

It would help anybody who uses abilities to farm wouldn't it?

Kamakazi010654 wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

It would help anybody who uses abilities to farm wouldn't it?

And also has respectable AP ratios. (not Ryze)

Kamakazi010654 wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

It would help anybody who uses abilities to farm wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. Your abilities should be doing lots of damage even without any extra AP at early levels. Most of your last hits should still be coming from your auto attacks unless you're forced to hang back due to harass.

MPen runes and AP quints is a pretty good way to go.

based on watching a video that dyni linked to on the competitive thread i actually did a little math the other day regarding going with AP quints or Mpen quints... with the base 30 MR the Mpen quints actually come out slightly ahead when using Viktor's Q. AP ratio on that ability is .65. I'm thinking for champs ith lower AP ratios i might consider experimenting with Mpen quints.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

It would help anybody who uses abilities to farm wouldn't it?

Fair point. Flat AP marks get you what...6 ap? After accounting for ratios and resistances... you're getting what? 3 extra damage per minion? Pen helps you all game and right away on enemy champs. Magic pen is harder to itemize than AP, as well.

Jow wrote:

based on watching a video that dyni linked to on the competitive thread i actually did a little math the other day regarding going with AP quints or Mpen quints... with the base 30 MR the Mpen quints actually come out slightly ahead when using Viktor's Q. AP ratio on that ability is .65. I'm thinking for champs ith lower AP ratios i might consider experimenting with Mpen quints.

Yup. For anyone with primary ratios under .8 you're probably better off focusing on penetration and CDR (and survivability if your champ has none innately). See also: hate spike, overload, glitterlance, flamespitter, etc.

carrotpanic wrote:
Kamakazi010654 wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:

No, because more ap does not help your last hitting.

Depends on the AP. It helps Gragas a lot.

It would help anybody who uses abilities to farm wouldn't it?

Fair point. Flat AP marks get you what...6 ap? After accounting for ratios and resistances... you're getting what? 3 extra damage per minion? Pen helps you all game and right away on enemy champs. Magic pen is harder to itemize than AP, as well.

Oh yeah, marks. I suppose quints and glyphs are where you would get the serious AP. I thought this was about AP vs penetration early on. AP characters get the best of both worlds, because glyphs max AP, Marks/quints for Penetration.

I have begun to also see a lot of unsuccessful AD's building Black Cleaver first.

psoplayer wrote:
Jow wrote:

based on watching a video that dyni linked to on the competitive thread i actually did a little math the other day regarding going with AP quints or Mpen quints... with the base 30 MR the Mpen quints actually come out slightly ahead when using Viktor's Q. AP ratio on that ability is .65. I'm thinking for champs ith lower AP ratios i might consider experimenting with Mpen quints.

Yup. For anyone with primary ratios under .8 you're probably better off focusing on penetration and CDR (and survivability if your champ has none innately). See also: hate spike, overload, glitterlance, flamespitter, etc.

...which is damn near everyone. Aside of Malz I can't think of any mids that have ratios => .8.

psoplayer wrote:
Jow wrote:

For anyone with primary ratios under .8

...which is damn near everyone. Aside of Malz I can't think of any mids that have ratios => .8.

Emphasis added. You don't need the whole kit to have huge ratios, just the key skill(s). In a few cases you could run maximum AP runes for crushing dominance in the first 3-5 levels of laning.

Morgana's dark binding (0.9), Gragas barrel (0.9), Nidalee's spear (0.65 up to 1.6 at max range), Anivia's flash frost (0.5 x2 for doubletap) and frostbite (0.5 x2 for chilled), Veigar's dark matter (1.0), Sion's stun (0.9) and shield (0.9), and of course Alpha Strike (1.0).

In almost all cases you're not only trading away the late-game damage of MPen for a chance at early damage, you're banking it all on skillshots. In the latter two cases that aren't skillshots, the champions are complete gimmicks that don't scale well into the mid and late game unless they snowball really hard.

psoplayer wrote:
psoplayer wrote:
Jow wrote:

For anyone with primary ratios under .8

...which is damn near everyone. Aside of Malz I can't think of any mids that have ratios => .8.

Emphasis added. You don't need the whole kit to have huge ratios, just the key skill(s). In a few cases you could run maximum AP runes for crushing dominance in the first 3-5 levels of laning.

Morgana's dark binding (0.9), Gragas barrel (0.9), Nidalee's spear (0.65 up to 1.6 at max range), Anivia's flash frost (0.5 x2 for doubletap) and frostbite (0.5 x2 for chilled), Veigar's dark matter (1.0), Sion's stun (0.9) and shield (0.9), and of course Alpha Strike (1.0).

In almost all cases you're not only trading away the late-game damage of MPen for a chance at early damage, you're banking it all on skillshots. In the latter two cases that aren't skillshots, the champions are complete gimmicks that don't scale well into the mid and late game unless they snowball really hard.

Or in other words, the LeBlanch build T_T

psoplayer wrote:

Emphasis added. You don't need the whole kit to have huge ratios, just the key skill(s). In a few cases you could run maximum AP runes for crushing dominance in the first 3-5 levels of laning.

Morgana's dark binding (0.9), Gragas barrel (0.9), Nidalee's spear (0.65 up to 1.6 at max range), Anivia's flash frost (0.5 x2 for doubletap) and frostbite (0.5 x2 for chilled), Veigar's dark matter (1.0), Sion's stun (0.9) and shield (0.9), and of course Alpha Strike (1.0).

In almost all cases you're not only trading away the late-game damage of MPen for a chance at early damage, you're banking it all on skillshots. In the latter two cases that aren't skillshots, the champions are complete gimmicks that don't scale well into the mid and late game unless they snowball really hard.

Gotcha. Even still, I think it might be more efficient to run Mpen on Morg and Gragas at least because unless your opponents are silly you're just not going to be hitting barrels or especially binding that often during the laning phase.

I think a lot of us still run AP quints just because we were used to hitting that magic 30 MPen (enough to do true damage to most mid-lane matchups) with MPen marks, masteries, and Sorc Shoes. With the nerf to Sorc Shoes and the mastery changes, that's no longer the case. Against a 30 MR opponent, you'll now only be seeing 25.2 MPen. So yeah, probably worthwhile to go into your caster pages and swap out at least 2 AP quints for MPen if you're not going to be rushing Haunting Guise. Gotta take care of that tonight :).

Dyni wrote:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/z...

And oh man, I am so in.

Yeah, he looks very fun, and that's not nothing in LoL. There are lots of champs I play that might be good, or comfortable, or new, but few that are really a hoot to play. This looks like that kind of champ.