Living Card Games From FFG Catch-All

psoplayer wrote:

On the contrary, I don't think there are currently enough ways to "bag" in order to have a reliable NBN tag&bag deck.

I agree we're not quite to the point where you can easily kill the runner if you get a single tag on them, but a corp can still make their life hell without playing a single card once tags hit the table.

shoptroll wrote:
psoplayer wrote:

On the contrary, I don't think there are currently enough ways to "bag" in order to have a reliable NBN tag&bag deck.

I agree we're not quite to the point where you can easily kill the runner if you get a single tag on them, but a corp can still make their life hell without playing a single card once tags hit the table.

As evidenced by losing a game the other day on turn three I think when my opponent scored and forfeited the Weyland agenda that gives the runner a tag and then double Scorched Earth me.

Enjoying the thread so far. I've bought into nearly all the FFG LCGs in varying quantities... much to my frustration mostly, as no one I've gamed with with any regularity plays them. Started out with Call of Cthulhu and bought a core, all of the first cycle, and part of the second before I realized I just wasn't playing and stopped. Got into Game of Thrones later and bought pretty much the first four or five cycles, plus all the big boxes up to and including Baratheon before I realized I wasn't playing and stopped. Interest was piqued by Warhammer Invasion, so I bought a couple battle packs plus the first one or two big boxes, played a little with a friend very casually, then eventually realized I wasn't playing and stopped.

Now I'm in like Flynn with Netrunner, gobbling up the data packs as fast as they can get them in my grubby little hands. I've actually played a bit in real life too, 10-15 games with a buddy of mine that's traditionally been reticent to get into these kinds of games. The problem is, we keep playing with the starter decks and I'm more than ready to start deckbuilding, but since I own all the stuff we're playing with the only way for him to build is virtually... and that's just not going to happen. Blaaaaaah.

I think Weyland and Jinteki are the only corps that have killing the runner as a reasonable option in-faction. I was looking at NBN's cards and they don't have anything to really kill the runner in faction, you'd have to pull in Scorched Earth (and you'd probably want Private Security Force as a neutral agenda). HB has damage dealing ice but I don't think they have anything that does three or more damage at once, maybe Janus if the runner can't click through any of the subroutines at all?

You could probably build directly for it, but I'm kinda iffy on Weyland counting on a flatline win. Jinteki seems like the only one to be able to do it properly. There's still a healthy middle ground, though. I won a game with my puny Weyland data fort deck over the weekend thanks to splashing Junebug and Edge of World. (and a really poor decision by the runner)

shoptroll wrote:

the hard 3 card limit

Huh?

thejustinbot wrote:

As evidenced by losing a game the other day on turn three I think when my opponent scored and forfeited the Weyland agenda that gives the runner a tag and then double Scorched Earth me.

Right, but that's just them getting a lucky pull. There's very little direct damage in the pool right now, and even then they had to leave Posted Bounty fully advanced for a full round before springing that on you.

The CCG base set had Scorched Earth derivatives like Urban Renewal and Punitive Counterstrike which scaled the damage/cost up and down respectively. Additional direct damage cards would allow the corp to circumvent the hard 3 copies limit which would make tag n' bag more reliable (in that you could increase the draw rate of direct damage).

Demyx wrote:

I think Weyland and Jinteki are the only corps that have killing the runner as a reasonable option in-faction.

I still think Weyland is more interested in making money but won't pass up the opportunity to go for the kill if the situation presents itself. Jinteki is obviously interested in letting the runner pick the wrong door but they're also the only faction that has event cards which cause damage without needing tags.

Demyx wrote:

HB has damage dealing ice but I don't think they have anything that does three or more damage at once, maybe Janus if the runner can't click through any of the subroutines at all?

HB damage is concentrated on the bioroid ice which means you can forfeit clicks to get around it. Janus will do 4 damage so you're guaranteed to at least get 1 damage if the runner hits it immediately on their turn.

shoptroll wrote:
psoplayer wrote:

the hard 3 card limit

There's a hard limit of 3 copies of a card in a deck.

Yeah, I figured out what you meant about 10 seconds later.

psoplayer wrote:

You could probably build directly for it, but I'm kinda iffy on Weyland counting on a flatline win. Jinteki seems like the only one to be able to do it properly. There's still a healthy middle ground, though. I won a game with my puny Weyland data fort deck over the weekend thanks to splashing Junebug and Edge of World. (and a really poor decision by the runner)

shoptroll wrote:

the hard 3 card limit

Huh?

'
I really want to like Edge of the World but Snare is just so much better.

I agree that Weyland shouldn't count on a flatline win. In fact, I'm not sure any corp can really count on a flatline win, even Jinteki. Scorched Earth is pretty nice to get out there even if you can't flatline with it though, since the runner losing their whole hand is a pretty severe blow.

Weyland I think (could be wrong again) is so far the only corp with the ability to deck search. In theory, they can go Posted Bounty -> Aggressive Negotiations -> Scorched Earth assuming the runner is at 3 or less cards for an instant win.

psoplayer wrote:

the hard 3 card limit

There's a hard limit of 3 copies of a card in a deck. I've updated that sentence to be clearer.

With the Jinteki and Weyland heavy meta I play in, Public Sympathy has become an auto include.

I like Public Sympathy because not only does it give damage protection, it lets the runner keep more valuable events or late game cards in hand for when they need them.

thejustinbot wrote:

Public Sympathy has become an auto include.

I can see that. I remember a BGG thread swooning over the meat damage soak hardware from What Lies Ahead and shaking my head. Public Sympathy is a lot more helpful.

shoptroll wrote:
thejustinbot wrote:

Public Sympathy has become an auto include.

I can see that. I remember a BGG thread swooning over the meat damage soak hardware from What Lies Ahead and shaking my head. Public Sympathy is a lot more helpful.

Yeah, I can't fit it in my Chaos Theory deck but I do have 1 carapace in my Kate deck just in case.

Demyx wrote:

Forged Activation Orders / Emergency Shutdown are definitely awesome. If it isn't clear I like to harry the Corp a lot!

Combo FAO with Cortez Chip for even more fun!

I like the idea of a flatline-centric deck, but have yet to actually pull one off on purpose. Between Weyland and NBN, there seems like there should be enough resources to pull it off, but the influence costs of making that work are prohibitively expensive, and I just don't have the bluffing skills to even consider playing Jinteki. I've settled on an NBN fast advance deck until they print a card that says "Do 1 meat damage for every tag the runner has", which will probably never happen.

Klax wrote:

I've settled on an NBN fast advance deck until they print a card that says "Do 1 meat damage for every tag the runner has", which will probably never happen.

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, depending on how much such a card would cost (or if it's an agenda ability, etc).

Demyx wrote:

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me, depending on how much such a card would cost (or if it's an agenda ability, etc).

Doesn't seem too unreasonable, but it probably depends on how they want to balance the meta of the game. I feel right now they want to at least give the runner a chance to avoid flatlining from meat damage. If you were to score a Posted Bounty and then do 2 Big Brothers, and then the theoretical 1 meat damage / tag card you'd wipe their entire hand and the runner couldn't do anything about. The runner then has to spend the next turn digging out of the pile of tags and/or an empty hand if they survive (assuming no Carapace or Sympathy here). Not to mention they're 10 credits in the hole due to the tags.

On the flip side, a runner can't really do much about Posted Bounty + 2 Scorched Earths, but I feel like that's hard to pull off without luck or forcing the situation with Aggressive Negotiation (in which case you only get to play a single Scorched Earth).

I don't see how it's really that different from Scorched Earth. Scorched Earth costs four credits and does four meat damage if the runner is tagged. If the theoretical one meat damage per tag card also cost four credits, it would only be better than Scorched Earth if the runner has more than four tags. So it should cost more than Scorched Earth, but doesn't seem impossible to balance. What about two credits per tag?

I think currently the best way to get lots of tags on a runner would probably be score Breaking News + Big Brother + Big Brother for six tags with one click left over

Klax wrote:

I like the idea of a flatline-centric deck... but the influence costs of making that work are prohibitively expensive, and I just don't have the bluffing skills to even consider playing Jinteki

In that case, it seems like the next expansion will have something just for you:
IMAGE(http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/android-netrunner/deluxe-expansions/creation-and-control/custom-biotics.png)

I'm not sure how well HB with no Jinteki cards will work as a flatline deck, even with the additional influence. You have Scorched Earth, which requires a tag, and you'll probably have to bring in some NBN cards to support that, since I don't think HB tags naturally. At that point wouldn't you be better off just going with a Weyland/NBN deck? What are the HB cards really adding, the brain damage from biotic ice?

I think it's mostly a matter of the damage per card/click ratio. Scorched Earth does a specific amount of damage, and if you want to do any more, you'll have to use another card and/or click. There's potential for an excessive amount of damage to come from a single card if it does damage per tag, and then you have the entire rest of your turn to keep up the assault if they managed to survive.

What if it cost three clicks AND more than four credits?

I'm not saying such a card shouldn't be expensive, I just don't think it's totally impossible to balance.

Demyx wrote:

I'm not sure how well HB with no Jinteki cards will work as a flatline deck, even with the additional influence. You have Scorched Earth, which requires a tag, and you'll probably have to bring in some NBN cards to support that, since I don't think HB tags naturally.

I think Ichii does a weak trace which does brain damage + tag. It's one of the mid-cost bioroids, but it's the exception to the rule. They might've picked up another tagging ice with Viper from the latest data pack, not sure (and I'm too lazy to check CardDB).

I don't think there's much benefit to HB going tag n' bag. They're much more focused on deep servers which gives them time to advance their agendas instead of playing the aggressor role.

That said, I think you could come up with an interesting Jinteki/HB deck which is focused on damaging the runner a lot on the way in, but the main issue with both factions is they rely more on intimidating the runner into not progressing further into the server instead of terminating the run.

I'm still on vacation but for some strange reason I've been obsessing about Android Netrunner and reading up on it more than is normal for someone who hasn't even played it yet.

For those of you interested in expanding your pool of Netrunner opponents, there is this:

Netrunner on OCTGN

The module creator runs a lot of how-to and play videos on his YouTube channel as well.

Now I just got to convince my boardgaming friend to put away Summoner Wars for a while and give Netrunner a chance.

UPDATE: Sorry nothing to see here. Totally forgot OCTGN was already called out in the original posting. Ack

Yes, it was called out, but your links have much better info for getting up and running with the unwieldy thing. There's totally something to see there.

Played a few games on Octgn with a buddy of mine last night using a Jinteki Replicating Perfection deck I've been fiddling around with. Granted, he didn't have time to build his own deck so quickly downloaded a Shaper deck that ended up being remarkably similar to the starter, but I was pleasantly surprised how well the deck worked. First two games ended pretty quickly in flatlines, one after he ran two Neural Katanas consecutive without the means to break them, the second maybe two turns in when he ran an installed Snare and didn't have the cards to cover. The third game turned into a slog of clicks spent earning credits as neither of us was able to pull much in the way of economy. He stole a Nisei pretty early on an HQ raid with a 1-in-5 chance to pull it (snarl) but I took the next four agendas (including all three Fetal AIs, which was even more of a slog with no economy) to win it.

I downloaded OCTGN a while ago and built a few decks for play, but haven't actually played with it yet. I've watched the full set of tutorial videos from the developer, but I'm still worried about getting into a game and upsetting my opponent by not actually knowing the correct way to do things or any of the courtesies that usually accompany online play.

that's one reason i don't just jump in with random folks. play with GWJers who will not have unreasonable expectations.

How do you organize such a game? I haven't seen any sort of friends list in OCTGN. I'd love to play a few games, though, I'm dying to bust out this NBN deck against some new people.