Steam Box Catch-All

EvilDead wrote:

If they still can't fit 7 year old consoles into that form factor, there is no way they could fit 18 month old PC performance hardware into it. The Wii U is not exactly top of the line hardware and they packed that as tightly as possible. And it's not even free from early hardware issues.

One thing I'd say might be different between console chips and PC chips is that I'm not sure to what extent they can redesign a console chip in revisions, as it needs to behave very similarly to all the other revisions. PC chips they can make big changes and handle it in the driver. Random speculation with nothing much to back it up.

EvilDead wrote:
gore wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

That thing is an Android machine though isn't it? Aka, probably slightly more powerful than your average phone?

(Note: your average smartphone is now at least as capable as the current generation of consoles)

Not even close. Where did you here that?

I'm being hyperbolic, but these little SOCs kick a lot of ass already and are getting better all the time. Ouya and the NVidia Tegra 4 thing may be souped up phones, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

shoptroll wrote:

I know that's the theory, but aren't graphics cards getting longer in the high-end these days?

My two cards equal the size of my 17" laptop, but they are also capable of each running a computer by themselves. The Steambox isn't going to have a CPU and a GPU. A GPU can run the calculations of the CPU.

So they only need a GPU and memory for RAM/Storage.

It won't be the performance of a high end desktop, but it'll play games at 24-30FPS at 1920x1080 which is the average Flat Panel Tele.

Vs my system gets 300-400 FPS in Team Fortress 2 and 80-100 typically at 2560x1600.

gore wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
gore wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

That thing is an Android machine though isn't it? Aka, probably slightly more powerful than your average phone?

(Note: your average smartphone is now at least as capable as the current generation of consoles)

Not even close. Where did you here that?

I'm being hyperbolic, but these little SOCs kick a lot of ass already and are getting better all the time. Ouya and the NVidia Tegra 4 thing may be souped up phones, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Oh yeah definitely. I have an Iphone 4s and a Nexus 7 and they have more then impressed me. And maybe in a few years they will be able to compete with the PS3 and 360. Its just that I had recently read that the newest iPad graphics computing power was about the same as an original Xbox.

Random comment on the Tegra: After using the Tegra 3, Nvidia better step up its game for the 4. The iPhone 4s & iPad 4 run the same games significantly better than the Nexus 7.

gore wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
gore wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

That thing is an Android machine though isn't it? Aka, probably slightly more powerful than your average phone?

(Note: your average smartphone is now at least as capable as the current generation of consoles)

Not even close. Where did you here that?

I'm being hyperbolic, but these little SOCs kick a lot of ass already and are getting better all the time. Ouya and the NVidia Tegra 4 thing may be souped up phones, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

1080P with high details frame locked at 60fps is beyond any SOC currently on the market...I'm sure eventually they will get there but by then we will all be clamoring for 4K gaming

TheGameguru wrote:
gore wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
gore wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

That thing is an Android machine though isn't it? Aka, probably slightly more powerful than your average phone?

(Note: your average smartphone is now at least as capable as the current generation of consoles)

Not even close. Where did you here that?

I'm being hyperbolic, but these little SOCs kick a lot of ass already and are getting better all the time. Ouya and the NVidia Tegra 4 thing may be souped up phones, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

1080P with high details frame locked at 60fps is beyond any SOC currently on the market...I'm sure eventually they will get there but by then we will all be clamoring for 4K gaming

1080p would be fine for a longer time. If only the programming would improve. Then the hardware doesn't need to be all that beefy.
Deus Ex got optimized in the end, so that there were no more loading times etc etc. They never released that version, but it had to be done before it was
ported for the PS2 I believe. But companies are pushing so hard, that effective coding has become secondary.

To be fair, that's also beyond current console hardware. Very few console games, if any at all, actually run gameplay at full 60fps in 1080p, from what I've understood. Those that claim 1080p on the box tend to refer only to the menus, whereas gameplay runs at 720p, or scales like Call of Duty.

I'd also say to define "high details". Capabilities for processing and producing detail is always improving. Within the lifespan of these (and any) units what is considered poor, reasonable or good levels of detail will shift. Just like a console they'll have to pick a level. (edit: Unlike a traditional console though, they can more easily release a revision with a higher performance capabilities and have it be highly compatible. Just as releasing the first xbox wasn't the endgame for MS, releasing the first 'generation' of steambox shouldn't be the endgame for this)

Right now the raspberry pi can run Quake3 at 1080p, back in 1999 I had to make graphics choices to run that at 1024x768 @ 16bpp as it was a demanding game but now it'll run on 'poor' hardware.

That's before you get to trying to scaling detail (the same game looks better on better hardware) or that some games, and plenty of good games, just aren't that demanding.

TheGameguru wrote:
gore wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
gore wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

That thing is an Android machine though isn't it? Aka, probably slightly more powerful than your average phone?

(Note: your average smartphone is now at least as capable as the current generation of consoles)

Not even close. Where did you here that?

I'm being hyperbolic, but these little SOCs kick a lot of ass already and are getting better all the time. Ouya and the NVidia Tegra 4 thing may be souped up phones, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

1080P with high details frame locked at 60fps is beyond any SOC currently on the market...I'm sure eventually they will get there but by then we will all be clamoring for 4K gaming

I saw some blurb from an event that predicts future tech (to be seen at CES between 2014 and 2016) and there was this crazy/stupid point where the speaker said that we would be seeing 1000 fps video in the next few years and my eyeballs rolled into the back of my head and burst out of my ears, escaping into the wilderness and leaving me blind.

This was an official event for tech people as well... Just... I just want to smack some people across the face and say "WTF?!".

I can do 1000FPS @1080p right now. I'll grant you it's not rendering a lot while doing it, but I can do it.

1500 or so actually using a random sample from the DX SDK.
edit: Found one that gives 5000fps on my 'old' 460GTX. That's around 83 frames per frame that my monitor can actually display.

The Nerdist Podcast spoke to Gabe Newell about the company and games. It is brought up but this really isn't about the box. I thought Valve fans would see it here. Hats on the other hand are brought up every 15 seconds
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Company
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Games

Scratched wrote:

I can do 1000FPS @1080p right now. I'll grant you it's not rendering a lot while doing it, but I can do it.

1500 or so actually using a random sample from the DX SDK.
edit: Found one that gives 5000fps on my 'old' 460GTX. That's around 83 frames per frame that my monitor can actually display.

I wasn't saying it wasn't possible. I was stupefied because the human eye cannot make use of anywhere near even a fifth of that speed.

[edit]If 120fps is more than fine for supersmooth video playback then 1000fps is completely redundant and the processing power would be best served being put into something else.

It's like people who want to push 4k content onto their 4" phones and 7" tablets... Just pointlessly ridiculous.

evilseed wrote:

The Nerdist Podcast spoke to Gabe Newell about the company and games. It is brought up but this really isn't about the box. I thought Valve fans would see it here. Hats on the other hand are brought up every 15 seconds
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Company
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Games

Maybe one version of the Steambox will be shapped like a hat. They can call it Hatbox.

PRG013 wrote:
evilseed wrote:

The Nerdist Podcast spoke to Gabe Newell about the company and games. It is brought up but this really isn't about the box. I thought Valve fans would see it here. Hats on the other hand are brought up every 15 seconds
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Company
Gabe Newell: Valve - The Games

Maybe one version of the Steambox will be shapped like a hat. They can call it Hatbox.

As long as it in the shape of IMAGE(http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/f5/Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png/250px-Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png)

JohnKillo wrote:
PRG013 wrote:

Maybe one version of the Steambox will be shapped like a hat. They can call it Hatbox.

As long as it in the shape of IMAGE(http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/f5/Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png/250px-Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png)

That would be the full tower.

I found an Official Steam Group for Hardware beta test..

http://steamcommunity.com/games/hard...

This group seems to be around for a long time.

This group appear to me out of nowhere, just like the Linux group did..

Manach wrote:

I found an Official Steam Group for Hardware beta test..

http://steamcommunity.com/games/hard...

This group seems to be around for a long time.

This group appear to me out of nowhere, just like the Linux group did..

Joined it, because I could and you never know...

P...preorder your Steambox here? Does that count? Is that what this thread is about?

Dirty console peasant here: $1,000 is a lot of scratch for a thing to stick under my TV to play games on my couch.

I think at that price you're more paying for the custom parts and the miniaturisation rather than the money going into hardware useful for gaming. At 1k I'd be more inclined to buy a laptop and stick that under the TV.

Scratched wrote:

I think at that price you're more paying for the custom parts and the miniaturisation rather than the money going into hardware useful for gaming. At 1k I'd be more inclined to buy a laptop and stick that under the TV.

Indeed, that's dangerously close to gaming laptop territory. And if miniaturization isn't crucial you can build or buy a heckofa powerful destkop PC for that price.

I'm not sure that this thing is rightfully considered a "Steam Box" at this point, though. They're partners of some sort, but it really seems all that partnership nets you presently is some kind of cross-marketing.

I think it's a useful discussion point to show that a gaming PC can take more forms than a big ATX case.

gore wrote:
Scratched wrote:

I think at that price you're more paying for the custom parts and the miniaturisation rather than the money going into hardware useful for gaming. At 1k I'd be more inclined to buy a laptop and stick that under the TV.

Indeed, that's dangerously close to gaming laptop territory. And if miniaturization isn't crucial you can build or buy a heckofa powerful destkop PC for that price.

Custom parts (ie. minituarization) is what prevents the Xi3 and gaming laptops from appealing to me as a consumer. Especially because gaming laptops usually aren't modular which makes them obsolete a lot faster than a desktop beige box. At least the Xi3 is modular but they're using custom boards which won't let prices go down because it's a niche product at best.

I'd be wary of picking one of these up until it was run through the benchmark wringer and we don't even know how next-gen console ports are going to perform on current PC hardware at various detail levels/resolutions.

I love the concept and look of the Xi3 device, but that's a really big bet to make if you're looking for a console alternative.

shoptroll wrote:
gore wrote:
Scratched wrote:

I think at that price you're more paying for the custom parts and the miniaturisation rather than the money going into hardware useful for gaming. At 1k I'd be more inclined to buy a laptop and stick that under the TV.

Indeed, that's dangerously close to gaming laptop territory. And if miniaturization isn't crucial you can build or buy a heckofa powerful destkop PC for that price.

Custom parts (ie. minituarization) is what prevents the Xi3 and gaming laptops from appealing to me as a consumer. Especially because gaming laptops usually aren't modular which makes them obsolete a lot faster than a desktop beige box. At least the Xi3 is modular but they're using custom boards which won't let prices go down because it's a niche product at best.

I'd be wary of picking one of these up until it was run through the benchmark wringer and we don't even know how next-gen console ports are going to perform on current PC hardware at various detail levels/resolutions.

I love the concept and look of the Xi3 device, but that's a really big bet to make if you're looking for a console alternative.

Exactly. If I cannot easily upgrade when I want to, spending however much I can/want to on the upgrades, how is that better than a console to begin with exactly? Aside from the closed system a console enjoys? In this sort of thing, I see none of the positives and all the negatives of console-ownership.

Well, one positive is that you can get fully compatible alternatives from other sources.

Man, how about that storage gouging? $340 to upgrade from a 128 GB to 256 GB SSD?

LiquidMantis wrote:

Man, how about that storage gouging? $340 to upgrade from a 128 GB to 256 GB SSD?

They're probably using SSD chips on a PCI Express card instead of a traditional 2.5" enclosure. Otherwise, they should be giving you about 500 MB for that price.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Man, how about that storage gouging? $340 to upgrade from a 128 GB to 256 GB SSD?

Reminds me of Apple. Which reminds me, I wonder when steam is going to come out with a generally available local streaming solution. It would be cool to have an appleTV, or some other lightweight box/microconsole to stream and play games from a heavyweight box.

The vid card spec are no where to be found, well, there is some spec, but not a brand name in there. Only OpenGl 2.0 on the xi3, but TF2 require 3.0 under Linux.

Scratched wrote:

Which reminds me, I wonder when steam is going to come out with a generally available local streaming solution. It would be cool to have an appleTV, or some other lightweight box/microconsole to stream and play games from a heavyweight box.

I think they're expecting Nvidia to pick up the slack there. It sounds like their future GPUs will allow you to do it. No idea if AMD has similar plans.