Aquarium and Fish - Catch all Fresh & Salt water

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Bonnonon wrote:

or gamerswithpensions.com if you wish to use the redirect.

Ha! That's the first time I've seen that. Awesome.

I registered it awhile back when some of us were joking about being old timer gamers in a retirement home. Someone, I forget who mentioned I should have registered the domain as gamerswithwalkers.com so people who don't have pensions are not excluded.

Slightly blurry shot of my baby making orange neo shrimp (and a couple of others hanging around in the background):

IMAGE(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/andysonlinepics/Aquarium/DSC00630_zpsac0406ed.jpg)

Think this was right after she'd dropped a load of eggs, so she's not looking berried (carrying eggs underneath her belly).

Said babies (also blurry):

IMAGE(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/andysonlinepics/Aquarium/babyshrimp_zps7ef06e35.jpg)

Zach you can use most freshwater pumps in salt, but I have found their lifespan is shorter. Once salt tanks are set up they are much more friendly than they get accused of. Fish only salt tanks are pretty much like a fresh tank. Reef and invertebrate tanks are where all of the horror stories come from. Live rock can be tough to cycle and get going before you can start adding anything. A protein skimmer is a must when you are starting the tank. You will find that once the tank gets going, you will rarely use the skimmer.

Find a local shop and start asking questions. It will likely take a few tries to find someone who actually wants to help. There are way too many shops out there that would rather take your money and sell more stuff than help. I will dig through all of my old site links and send you some good places to do research.

fishdude wrote:

Find a local shop and start asking questions. It will likely take a few tries to find someone who actually wants to help. There are way too many shops out there that would rather take your money and sell more stuff than help. I will dig through all of my old site links and send you some good places to do research.

I'd advise doing a lot of reading around reputable web forums as well, because from experience, I know that a lot of advice I hear from many fish stores is just not that good. If you do a level of your own research to build your base knowledge, you can narrow down which fish stores are to be trusted in your area.

I just don't know where the good saltwater sites are. For planted tanks, I like sites like plantedtank.net and aquaticplantcentral.com, I just have been out of the salt game too long to know on that side.

I don't think I could ever get into salt water fish. It seems like an insane amount of maintenance with a high cost. Since I was a kid I helped my grandfather breed fancy tail guppies. Guppies are pretty cheap, nice looking and breed like crazy. When Hurricane Sandy hit the guppies in my almost died because we were without power for a week and the temp was dropping in the low 60's. Thankfully my neighbor let my borrow a port in their generator so I could get the heater going for a couple of hours it get it to 78deg.

Right now my tank is a mess since the guppies are eating a lot of the plants and unrooting them. I will take a picture once I get it fixed up.

I am wondering what folks can say about lower maintenance tanks. I have been told that having a reef, with minimal or no fish, just grasses, corals, sponges, and anemones can be a tank you just about never have to clean. Is that so?

TempestBlayze wrote:

I don't think I could ever get into salt water fish. It seems like an insane amount of maintenance with a high cost. Since I was a kid I helped my grandfather breed fancy tail guppies. Guppies are pretty cheap, nice looking and breed like crazy. When Hurricane Sandy hit the guppies in my almost died because we were without power for a week and the temp was dropping in the low 60's. Thankfully my neighbor let my borrow a port in their generator so I could get the heater going for a couple of hours it get it to 78deg.

Right now my tank is a mess since the guppies are eating a lot of the plants and unrooting them. I will take a picture once I get it fixed up.

I've never been that into guppies personally, but I've lately become interested in a related livebearer. The Endler's Livebearer is a very cool fish that might work in my nano tank, but I'm going to wait until my shrimp colony is a bit more established and can handle a bit of predation before trying them.

Have you ever tried Endler's? I know they're sometimes cross bred with guppies.

IMAGE(http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/livebearers/endlers_male_110111a4_w0480.jpg)

Mannish, that is pretty much what I was trying to say. I was very fortunate to work at a shop where the owner was very knowledgeable and would gladly share. There are a couple of great shops in the Houston area as well. Unfortunately, there are way more out that that just outright suck.

You might also look to see if there is a local saltwater/reef society. They love to share knowledge and many will help you get set up if they are available.

Gorilla, that is somewhat true. A handful of good turbo snails will help keep the algae down. Aside from an occasional algae wipe and regular water changes/top-offs, a well set reef tank will run itself. You will need to add 5-10% of the water volume each week just due to evaporation. Many people with smaller tanks will go to their local shop and buy premixed salt water. Saves you from buying a reverse osmosis unit. The biggest things you have to watch out for are dying rock or dying inverts. The dying rock and corals will cause a major tank cycle and kill stuff quickly.

fishdude wrote:

Mannish, that is pretty much what I was trying to say.

I wasn't arguing, just expanding

Even at some of what I consider good fish stores I've been to, the advise from some of the staff is often questionable. But in their defense, it's a very diverse hobby, and every person in the store is not going to be an expert on everything they carry or every tank type.

Has me thinking. I'm flying to San Antonio frequently lately doing contract work. I need to explore some fish stores in the area sometime instead of killing time in the hotel at night.

No problem. I thought I might have not been clear enough. Diverse opinions seem to be a great part of that hobby. You are pretty much left to piecing together what you want or finding a mentor and sticking with their way. I actually recommend the later at first and then figure out what works for you and your specific tank.

There are a couple of shops in SA worth visiting. There is also a monster shop in Austin that is worth the trip if you have time.

I have a 30+ gallon tank with two koi about 6 inches long... Water is very stable, but I can't seem to keep any plants alive for long... ~1-2 months at the most.

Also, I think my koi are killers... I used to have other fish in there (mollys, a loach and a pleco), but one by one they have died mysteriously when I am gone for a few days even though I use the feeding chunks made for long weekends. I need something as a bottom feeder that can handle them. Should I just get a big pleco or should I do something else?

Lily Pads are pretty resilient. The issue with plants in a static system is that the fish are often over-saturating the waters with nitrates and phosphorous compounds that algae and scum thrive on, but too much of will choke the water grasses and weeds.

Have you tried lily pads? Bonus is getting a nifty flower in there too. For a smaller tank, you can get some dwarf lily bulbs.

KingGorilla wrote:

Lily Pads are pretty resilient. The issue with plants in a static system is that the fish are often over-saturating the waters with nitrates and phosphorous compounds that algae and scum thrive on, but too much of will choke the water grasses and weeds.

Have you tried lily pads? Bonus is getting a nifty flower in there too. For a smaller tank, you can get some dwarf lily bulbs.

I never considered them as I like the look of the grassy type plants and have mostly a side view of the tank, but I do have a clear lid... How much space at the top of the tank would I need?

manta, have you seen the loach lately? I would hazard a guess the loach is the culprit. I have never had an experience with Koi, but have seen more than one loach hide deep in gravel and eat other fish. Unless you found a body, I lean toward the loach being a predator. I would also suspect the Koi have polluted the water. I know goldfish will pollute water very quickly.

Typical plants are tough to grow. Trimmings don't ever grow and the only ones that will should bee potted or root clusters. The biggest problem with plants is they need CO2 in the water. Dedicated plant tanks will have CO2 injection systems. You will see quite a few plant tanks that have nothing more than some snails and a few shrimp in them. It keeps fish from throwing off the balance of the water.

fishdude wrote:

manta, have you seen the loach lately? I would hazard a guess the loach is the culprit. I have never had an experience with Koi, but have seen more than one loach hide deep in gravel and eat other fish. Unless you found a body, I lean toward the loach being a predator. I would also suspect the Koi have polluted the water. I know goldfish will pollute water very quickly.

Typical plants are tough to grow. Trimmings don't ever grow and the only ones that will should bee potted or root clusters. The biggest problem with plants is they need CO2 in the water. Dedicated plant tanks will have CO2 injection systems. You will see quite a few plant tanks that have nothing more than some snails and a few shrimp in them. It keeps fish from throwing off the balance of the water.

Found the body in a Koi's mouth one day... was one of the long skinny eel-like loaches (same body type as a coolie but more yellow)... the koi was sucking on the bones. Wife was pretty upset as she really enjoyed watching him swim around. She told me no more fish that can be eaten. :/

Should I try snails and shrimp? They haven't lasted long for me in the past so I didn't think they would be much more than more expensive fish food.

Hmmmm. Cannibal Koi. Somebody should make a movie.....in 3D! Trademark.

Not sure if Koi eat shrimp and snails. They are typically pond dwellers, so I would bet snails are off limits. Get one of those cool blue lobsters. They would eat the Koi if they could catch them though.

I am going to have to defer on this one. I would hate to give bad advice and have another story come out. Hopefully someone else has experience with Koi.

I have heard rumors that koi and pleco's don't get along... but I still need to get an algae eater and/or a bottom feeder.

fishdude wrote:

Typical plants are tough to grow. Trimmings don't ever grow and the only ones that will should bee potted or root clusters. The biggest problem with plants is they need CO2 in the water. Dedicated plant tanks will have CO2 injection systems. You will see quite a few plant tanks that have nothing more than some snails and a few shrimp in them. It keeps fish from throwing off the balance of the water.

I disagree with this. Low tech planted tanks with low to medium light aren't really that hard. It's the high light, CO2 injected tanks with plants that require that along with high fertilizer needs that are hard to keep balanced.

But you are limited quite a bit by what types of fish you can keep in a planted tank. There are plenty of choices, but large fish that like to dig or actually eat plants are out (think most non-dwarf cichlids, etc). On the other hand, livebearers, tetras, rainbows, cories, dwarf cichlids, dwarf puffers, barbs, rasboras, etc. are great with plants.

Plants actually make the nitrate balance a bit easier in a lot of cases because they use a lot of the "wastes" of the bio cycle as fertilizer. So nitrate is actually a good things for plants, up to a point. Phosphates, the same.

I personally like low to medium light tanks without CO2 or constant fertilization, as they are much lower maintenance than CO2 injected aquariums while still looking great. See my tank above for what I enjoy. I think many people would be able to have that kind of plant life with a little bit of research and work in planning. Mosses, java ferns, vals, crypts, rotalas, ludwigias, etc, etc are great plants with low environmental requirements as long as you have somewhat decent lights and decent substrate (LED growth in the market make this even easier and cheaper).

If I wanted plants, Koi wouldn't be my choice of a fish, though.

manta173 wrote:

Should I try snails and shrimp? They haven't lasted long for me in the past so I didn't think they would be much more than more expensive fish food.

Not with your current fish you shouldn't. Koi are actually not a tropical fish, so for one thing, temp requirements might be different. I say that, even though many shrimp can thrive into the 60s, but I still think they'd likely be expensive food for your other fish.

Mannish is correct. I have just always gone the CO2 route and such. I have done fish and plants and plant only tanks. I don't even notice the extra work, so I don't even think of it. My mind sees it as part of the hobby.

Funny, earlier we talked about differing opinions in the hobby. Great example.

How did I miss this?!
My history of fish keeping started 8 years ago with a 30 gallon tank and a pond that came with my house.
In the winter I took the fish out of the pond and over the course of the winter they all perished except one
I filled in the pond and decided to start a tro[pical tank.
Kept a variety of community fish but IT WANST ENOUGH!
I moved on to small Malawi cichlids.
IT WASNT ENOUGH!
I got my dad's old 75 gallon and got bigger cichlids.
IT WASNT ENOUGH!
I filled the 30 as well and decided to try my hand at breeding. I did well with that but had babies I had to house! So, I built a stand and 10 10-gallon tanks and started a farm! (keep in mind all of this happened over a 2-3 year period. MTS (multi tank syndrome) was running rampant in my blood!
My main tank crashed. Lost everyone decided to get out of Cichlids. I WANTED MORE!
Converted it all over to salt water. started iwth the 30 gallon just to try it out then quickly moved it all into the 75.
I can tell you now. I had a lot more fun with salt water than i did with fresh. Salt water is a lot easier to maintain, as far as I'm concerned! Easier to keep balanced, at least that's what I found.

So now, 3 or 4 years after I started the salt water tank I sold it all and now just have an empty 10 gallon in case the bug hits again.

Sooo, plants. Never got into them much, but I know, like most goldfish/carp, koi are high ammonia fish. That is they expel alot of waste. The water can quickly become high in amonia. perhaps what you are experiencing with your plants are they are being poisoned. Have you tried more frequent, smaller water changes?

MannishBoy wrote:
groan wrote:

Sooo, plants. Never got into them much, but I know, like most goldfish/carp, koi are high ammonia fish. That is they expel alot of waste. The water can quickly become high in amonia. perhaps what you are experiencing with your plants are they are being poisoned. Have you tried more frequent, smaller water changes?

Ammonia isn't really bad for plants. They can actually use it like the do nitrates/nitrites/phosphates.

Ya, High ammonia is bad for most corals so that's where my knowledge of plants went (YES i know a coral is not a plant).
I just did a search for some pics of my marine tank before I sold it off, cant find any It was the best it ever looked at that time.

I'll do a search at home. I know I've got some.

Found some here
https://plus.google.com/photos/11388...

These aren't great. Just shots for when I was selling.
IMAGE(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XzJFjO5GpUo/TKPu_3wEKRI/AAAAAAAABCE/s-hRAA4bxiw/s692/P1010645.JPG)

groan wrote:

Sooo, plants. Never got into them much, but I know, like most goldfish/carp, koi are high ammonia fish. That is they expel alot of waste. The water can quickly become high in amonia. perhaps what you are experiencing with your plants are they are being poisoned. Have you tried more frequent, smaller water changes?

Ammonia isn't really bad for plants. They can actually use it like the do nitrates/nitrites/phosphates.

I've gone to fishless cycles on my tanks where you just dose ammonia up to around 5ppm and let it run until the nitrites drop out as the bacteria populations establish. And on planted tanks, you plant the tanks before/as you fill to start this.

Nice looking setup Groan. I love seeing people use sumps. It sure makes life easier in the long run. I donated an old, scratched up 75 for my friends to use as a sump on their 200. Worked like a charm.

groan wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
groan wrote:

Sooo, plants. Never got into them much, but I know, like most goldfish/carp, koi are high ammonia fish. That is they expel alot of waste. The water can quickly become high in amonia. perhaps what you are experiencing with your plants are they are being poisoned. Have you tried more frequent, smaller water changes?

Ammonia isn't really bad for plants. They can actually use it like the do nitrates/nitrites/phosphates.

Ya, High ammonia is bad for most corals so that's where my knowledge of plants went (YES i know a coral is not a plant).
I just did a search for some pics of my marine tank before I sold it off, cant find any It was the best it ever looked at that time.

I'll do a search at home. I know I've got some.

I'll make a caveat on what I said. Reasonably levels of ammonia aren't bad for plants. I'm sure at some point it gets toxic, but I doubt it's what would come from typical fish waste. Also, I think pH might be a factor, and with saltwater being so much higher, that might factor in. Along with the fact that corals have a lot of invertebrates, which are VERY sensitive to ammonia.

Nice looking tank, though.

Ya, it did make things much easier. That's the original 30 gallon that came with the house. turned it into the sump and kept it full of live rock and chaeto algae.

The tank as you see it there was at teh end of it's life after I had a bad crash/algae attack.
The rocks were covered head to toe with hair algae. I eventually had to cook all the rock after scrubbing. it was a long process but in the end it really worked. The rocks came out wonderfully white.
I replaced all teh sand and basically got the tank to a new-tank level. No cycling was needed as I kept a couple cups full of the old sand to season the tank with. Worked well.

At that point I felt that i'd had enough. sold the lot and upgraded my gaming rig. :/

That is too bad. It was a great looking setup.

I see some crazy lighting setup.
How does one light a 20-30 gallon kit tank like they look in the pet store, without any health danger.
Is it UV lighting?
That really bright colour, blue glow look.

You will see many salt tanks get lit with Metal Halide lights. This is mainly for larger 75+ tanks but it works on small ones as well. These days there are a lot of different lights that are compact fluorescent. When I was last heavily into the hobby, they were quite new. I still have an olde VHO setup from an old plant tank. The blue tint is usually from Actinic lights. When looking at light color, the lower "K" value is whiter. 2-4K is very bright white. Once you get to 8k and above it starts to become blue. I have always preferred the 10k Actinic over the others available. Best mix of bright and blue. Once you get past 12k they start to get purple IMO.

manta173 wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Lily Pads are pretty resilient. The issue with plants in a static system is that the fish are often over-saturating the waters with nitrates and phosphorous compounds that algae and scum thrive on, but too much of will choke the water grasses and weeds.

Have you tried lily pads? Bonus is getting a nifty flower in there too. For a smaller tank, you can get some dwarf lily bulbs.

I never considered them as I like the look of the grassy type plants and have mostly a side view of the tank, but I do have a clear lid... How much space at the top of the tank would I need?

You can buy bulbs, or try to find a shop that will sell you a sprout. Dwarf Liliies do well with polluted water, but not with fish that are very mobile, and make a lot of noise.

In a 30 gallon tank, I am not imagining you are growing large Koi in there. And with some patience, you should get some nice surface leafs going too; with blooms. I could swing lilies with frogs and newts. But turtles dig around too much, especially when laying eggs to make that feasible.