SC2 Pro Tournament Discussion

Watching NesTea just isn't right without Artosis shouting OH MY GAWD NESTEEEAAAAAA every two minutes.

Concave wrote:

Watching NesTea just isn't right without Artosis shouting OH MY GAWD NESTEEEAAAAAA every two minutes.


He's shouting alright, we just can't hear it.

Regarding eg-tl's last few matches,

Spoiler:

Poor eg-tl. You know things aren't looking good when a loss is less surprising than a win.

That coach is an idiot. He has one of the two or three most talented teams in the league but continually fails to make use of it.

Terrible lineup choices every week.

Add me to the hate club listing.

He's so bad.

Catching yesterday's GSL Code S group right now.

Losira actually looks genuinely good again! I'm excited. He always played kind of his own brand of Zerg and he's still doing that and it actually looks kinda great right now.

So I've been watching the IronSquid II replays over on Day9's YouTube page and I finally finished off the Grand Finals last night. Really interesting and high quality ZvZ.

Spoiler:

The first 3 games DRG won were really well put together wins, especially when he caught Life with pretty much no zerglings, but it seemed clear to me that DRG knew he had to catch Life, rather than beat him in a straight up macro game which is what the next 3 games. The last game just proved that life is a better player. Holding that crazy rush was really really impressive. He's an excellent player.

The 3rd placed playoff was good too, but for different reasons (NesTea v MKP)

Spoiler:

I really dislike MKP because I think he's an arrogant git. When I see him drop "manner mules", that's possibly one of the most arrogant and dickish moves you can pull being the winner.

So seeing NesTea destroy him 3-0 was extremely satisfying. He's greedy behaviour of not scouting at all completely bit him on the arse and it was delicious.

Foxer is among the worst players. Predictable, devoid of any strategical thought, gimmicky. If his micro wasn't this good we wouldn't even know his name.

liquid wrote:

Foxer is among the worst players. Predictable, devoid of any strategical thought, gimmicky. If his micro wasn't this good we wouldn't even know his name.

Considering how much his play has varied in terms of builds and strategy I'm going to have to disagree.

If anything his primary issue is nerves.

CC first > fast 3cc.
2 rax proxy or into CC.
CC first into mech sometimes.

Doesn't take a genius to figure him out, tvz that is. I maek marine, I maek micro!

silentsod wrote:
liquid wrote:

Foxer is among the worst players. Predictable, devoid of any strategical thought, gimmicky. If his micro wasn't this good we wouldn't even know his name.

Considering how much his play has varied in terms of builds and strategy I'm going to have to disagree.

If anything his primary issue is nerves.

You've somehow managed to watch a differen't player than the rest of us then.

Yesterday's Code S group is a perfect example. Wins with control against players who don't plan correctly for his play.

Players who go in with a gameplan designed specifically for MKP's crap have a tendency to beat him repeatedly.

liquid wrote:

CC first > fast 3cc.
2 rax proxy or into CC.
CC first into mech sometimes.

Doesn't take a genius to figure him out, tvz that is. I maek marine, I maek micro!

Yep. There is no true variety to his play whatsoever. It's why he loses to smarter players over and over and over again.

From on the fly using stimmed marines to combat banelings on creep in the open seasons to heavy cheese vs Nestea in the GSL finals match to mech to engineering bay timing pushes I've seen MKP utilize and display a myriad of plays during his career and they are all typically centered around his multitasking and micro. That he has been going CC first or rax/CC is because that opener allows him to keep pace for a while and go into whatever build he has planned and his opponents often punish this opener.

Your only defenses of him as a player are things from late 2010 and the first couple months of 2011. The game has progressed since then. He has not.

He is not now and has shown no evidence that he ever will be a truly complete player. If he can't just brutalize the other player with pure mechanics, if the other player comes in with a gameplan designed around MKP, then MKP will lose. And it's easy for players to plan for MKP's play because he relies on the same thing pretty much all the time. It's why he's never beaten MVP. He has zero adaptability.

MarineKing is what you get if you start with MVP or maybe Flash but take away all the brilliant tactical and strategic planning.

*Puma is in EGTL's lineup again for their match against Samsung Khan tomorrow night. And in the lineup yet again for Monday's match against Team 8.

Trot is worthless. I can't believe he's getting paid to spectacularly misuse all those players week after week.

Also, whenever MKP changed his style - that was pretty much the standard Tv* at the time. It was still easy to predict what he'll do (pull the scvs!) but it was so much harder to stop back then due to maps and starting positions, as well as various other imbalances or just players not figuring counters yet.

It's a damn shame that MVP will most likely have to retire. I've read that his condition is very serious, interferring with his breathing even and could lead to him not being able to walk and other things unless he has multiple surgeries for adjusting some spine problems. The whole process would be done over a year or so and after that I doubt it would be smart for him to go right back into the regime that got him there in the first place.

Players like MVP, Nestea, Taeja are what makes this game so beautiful to watch at high level. The careful planning, taking every detail into consideration from map, to starting location to build orders and then continuing with near perfect opponent reading or just flawless decision making. They made it look like they knew what their opponent would do, even before they knew it.
Players like MKP and MC (at least up until recently, I haven't watched MC play in a while) are just 1 trick abusive ponies. I died a little every time I've seen players lose to MC's 2 base all ins or Foxer's proxy or just bland, greedy opening leading to endless marine production and control.

But what hurts me the most and kills me inside is the way Nestea has been throwing away games for the last year and a half.

liquid wrote:

But what hurts me the most and kills me inside is the way Nestea has been throwing away games for the last year and a half.

Some more of that this morning too

He brings out these gameplans that are perfect, gets in a good position, and then squanders it. That thing this morning using contaminate to prevent a CC from lifting off so he could kill it off with his ground forces? WHY HAS THAT NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE?!?!? We're almost three years in and he still occasionally just casually shows us something new. Crazy.

And then he still goes on to throw away a huge lead. Super sad.

*Stephano is playing Innovation right now in Code S!

Unfortunately Tasteless and Artosis aren't casting. It's just Wolf doing it solo

*When a Terran starts going crazy with marine drops, why do pro Zergs still stubbornly refuse to build enough spine crawlers to repel the drops? WHY WHY WHY? Drops come in to the same two or three expansion mineral lines over and over again, and no spine crawlers.

Dimaga is still the only Zerg I can ever remember doing it regularly and it always made a huge difference.

*Taeja/Innovation game 1 in Code S RO16 Group A is a pretty ridiculous TvT if you like the matchup.

*If Squirtle were to win Game 2 against Soulkey after how the game started I would scream about Protoss being broken from now until forever. Or until Forcefield got removed from the game entirely.

So, am I the only one watching the very last GSL for Wings of Liberty?

Great matches last night from the round of 8 between Symbol/Innovation and Curious/Parting.

*If anybody cares, all the pre-season GSTL matches have free VODs and are all on Heart of the Swarm.

I've been really bored of the WoL metagame for a while now, I'm hoping HotS will reinvigorate the game.

kyrieee wrote:

I've been really bored of the WoL metagame for a while now, I'm hoping HotS will reinvigorate the game.

That's why I mentioned the free GSTL pre-season stuff. All on HOTS!

If anyone is around, check out the HotS tourney championships right now. Some sick play from both guys. Game 5 starting.

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/stre...

tuned in

So a guy that replaced some other player just seriously kills them all? Wow, job well done Yoda!

Well he's not a random. MVP said half a year ago that Yoda was the best player on their team, I just think he didn't get the opportunity to qualify.

Game 4 between Yoda and Parting was insanity. That was probably the longest extended battle I've seen in a long time.

Oh my god, finally.

EG-TL appoints none other than Coach Park, formerly of SKT1, as their new head coach.

Finally. FINALLY. Trot's GODAWFUL lineup choices will be a thing of the past.

Can I say it again?

Finally.

Thank goodness, hopefully they'll pull better than .500 during the HotS section of Proleague.

Thin_J wrote:

Oh my god, finally.

EG-TL appoints none other than Coach Park, formerly of SKT1, as their new head coach.

Finally. FINALLY. Trot's GODAWFUL lineup choices will be a thing of the past.

Can I say it again?

Finally.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

I was just about to hide Twitch chat, but then I saw:
Elysiumgwj: boom

I got a kick out of that

Marineking being Marineking, doing almost the exact same push in game two even after Jjakji completely mauled it in game 1. Same result.

1. Try push.
2. Fail miserably and lose.
3. Do it again in game 2 anyway
4. Fail miserably and lose again.
5. ??

Some things will never change I guess.

Will he vomit out the same build over again in game 3? Not a bet I would take.

Jjakji and Flash with them fancy Speedivacs wrecking sh*t left and right.

Sadly I couldn't watch and I'm just waking up and getting ready for work. But seeing MKP getting 3-0'd again by a smarter, better player makes it for a quite delightful start of the day.