Recommend me some classical music

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Thin_J wrote:

I saw this thread title and thought "Nah, I'll just wait for tuffalo to own face in there for a while"

Win.

Ha! Those Hillary Hahn -- Bach Violin Concertos you recommended way back when are good.

I haven't listened to those for a while, and this message reminded me to do that. Fantastic recording.

I really love the Starker performance of the Bach Cello Suites.

It should be noted that classical music is difficult. People wonder why you only see old people at the symphony. It's not because they're stuck in the past. It's because they are bored of the 3 power chord pop song that's been played time and time again. Also, it can take a lifetime to develop the musical taste for it. I was fortunate enough to be able to studio piano up through a bit of college, so I know how much studying the music helps your understanding and appreciation for it. Again, I cannot stress enough how important it is to see classical music live. It's a music genre that suffers a great deal acoustically when you just listen to a recording. I don't like a lot of classical music -- yet. I know that will change as I continue to listen and study. I actually decided to start playing piano again awhile ago. I recently backordered a Kawai CE220. I hate electric pianos, but I am in an apartment, so I don't really have a choice. This one seems like it might be okay.

Anyways, onto some more stuff. My favorite orchestral work will probably always be the Out of Africa soundtrack by John Barry with one clarinet concerto by Mozart. I've listened to it hundreds of times.

I started watching the movie, but I stopped halfway through because I didn't want to associate the music with it.

clover wrote:

I bristled for a second at your deep cut comment, but yeah, I guess that's true. Stravinsky is the anti-Mozart. :D

He's really not, though! If you listen to stuff written during Stravinsky's neo-classical phase, some of it is startlingly Mozartian, just freed from the rigid constraints of classical-era harmony. Stravinsky's opera The Rake's Progress, for instance, is full of gorgeous melodic lines that sound like something that might have haunted one of Mozart's fever dreams.

Well, aside from recommending the entire catalog of Bridge Records, I'd really recommend finding a couple of critics whose taste aligns with yours. Among the best ones out there today in terms of both accessibility of writing & breadth of coverage are Alex Ross (The New Yorker) and Dave Hurwitz (ClassicsToday.com). Alex Ross wrote a really great book on classical music in the 20th century, The Rest Is Noise, that's a good jumping off point for understanding the various movements & figures of the last hundred years. ClassicsToday has a very nice habit of including 'reference recordings' when they review a disc, so even if they don't like the sound or performance, they'll recommend what they consider the best version of the piece out there.

Spotify and similar services will be your friend; not everything is out there by a long shot, but you'll be able to compare and contrast between different version of a piece, or find interesting playlists that'll bring new pieces, composers and performers to your attention. Spotify Classical is an unaffiliated blog that creates and curates some really good playlists, including one that I guest wrote for Bridge:
http://www.spotifyclassical.com/2012...

Here are a few of my all-time faves. Will post more later when I have more time.

Dvorak's Symphony No. 9, The New World

Dvorak Mass in D Major

Schubert: Unfinished Symphony No. 8

Holst: The Planets

Beethoven: 5th Piano Concerto (Emperor)

Finzi: Eclogue for Piano and Strings

I would also add NPR Classical to Tanglebones' excellent suggestions. I've discovered some fantastic recordings from their recommendations.

Some more favorites, pushing things into the 20th Century:

You really can't go wrong with Johannes Brahms, either. I've been learning some of his music in my violin lessons and I really like his style:

Here's what I'm learning currently

Tanglebones wrote:

Some more favorites, pushing things into the 20th Century:

Hell yeah.

Some more stuff..

One segue into the music is, "oh, I heard that in the movies.."

Also, Amadeus is a really fun movie, just saying..

Oh, and Sibelius is f'in awesome:

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

It should be noted that classical music is difficult. People wonder why you only see old people at the symphony. It's not because they're stuck in the past. It's because they are bored of the 3 power chord pop song that's been played time and time again. Also, it can take a lifetime to develop the musical taste for it. I was fortunate enough to be able to studio piano up through a bit of college, so I know how much studying the music helps your understanding and appreciation for it. Again, I cannot stress enough how important it is to see classical music live. It's a music genre that suffers a great deal acoustically when you just listen to a recording. I don't like a lot of classical music -- yet. I know that will change as I continue to listen and study.

Yeah, the thing I don't want to get into, but is there in the back of my mind, is that certain tension wrapped up in "classical music". I guess a less generous person would call it elitism, which is both unfair and fair. In the one sense, classical or symphonic music or whatever is complex, I've no argument there. But that to my mind is what makes it special, that's what it does that, with its instrumentation, that other forms/genres don't. But that's not to say the alternative is only 3-chord pap, or that everything else is inferior. But then that ties into the other sense, in that classical music is inextricably linked with cultural elitism. But that's an attitude, and what can I say about that, the high-brow/low-brow construct? Sometimes a person just wants some more good music to add to their playlist.

So that said, I really am, basically, interested in "more like 'Marche Slav'", that I can listen to on my iPhone at work or while studying. I don't want to read a book about it, believe I need new equipment to hear it, or devote myself to a lifetime of developing an ear for it. I could probably have the same argument with a jazz aficionado (note to self: start other thread). I don't want to believe I automatically fail as a listener because I can't appreciate the nuance of a composition, am not profoundly moved by a particular performance (or am even capable of distinguishing it from any other performance), or if nothing I hear in this thread leaves me as gobsmacked as when Jonman introduced me to Venetian Snares. But if I come out of this thread with nothing more than a "Russian composers greatest hits", I'd still consider that a win.

But then maybe I'm just reacting to a straw man of cultural elitism.

Thanks for all that 20th century stuff, Tanglebones! I still can't passively enjoy most 20th century stuff. I think that I'll be more interested in it at some point.

Unrelated to the above, here are some other things I really like.

I particularly like Prokofiev's Vision Fugitive #8. I set the video to start at the one I'm talking about.

This symphony by Gorecki is pretty good. It's very dark.

Eric Satie's Gymnopedia's are great minimalist stuff:

Philip Glass is fun:

The cultural elitism's there; it's partially from the side of the in-crowd that want to keep their thing special, and partially due to classical music on large scales being hella-expensive to produce, ergo requiring sucking up to the megabucks crowd. If you get more broadly into it, you'll see that there are constant shifts and struggles as new composers start struggling against the status quo, and eventually become the status quo. Same as the Beatles & Rolling Stones were once revolutionary, and eventually became coopted by the establishment.

On the other hand, Mozart was equally at home composing music for royal courts & for penny operas for the public.

About the cultural elitism thing -- I think there is that aspect to it. What I was trying to say is that you may not instantly enjoy stuff without context and study. However, if you happened to want to enjoy something, a bit of context, study, and a live performance can allow that. That being said, there is a lot of classical music that's instantly enjoyable to anyone. I suppose that's the main purpose of this thread!

Yeah, the thing I don't want to get into, but is there in the back of my mind, is that certain tension wrapped up in "classical music". I guess a less generous person would call it elitism, which is both unfair and fair. In the one sense, classical or symphonic music or whatever is complex, I've no argument there. But that to my mind is what makes it special, that's what it does that, with its instrumentation, that other forms/genres don't. But that's not to say the alternative is only 3-chord pap, or that everything else is inferior. But then that ties into the other sense, in that classical music is inextricably linked with cultural elitism. But that's an attitude, and what can I say about that, the high-brow/low-brow construct? Sometimes a person just wants some more good music to add to their playlist.

So that said, I really am, basically, interested in "more like 'Marche Slav'", that I can listen to on my iPhone at work or while studying. I don't want to read a book about it, believe I need new equipment to hear it, or devote myself to a lifetime of developing an ear for it. I could probably have the same argument with a jazz aficionado (note to self: start other thread). I don't want to believe I automatically fail as a listener because I can't appreciate the nuance of a composition, am not profoundly moved by a particular performance (or am even capable of distinguishing it from any other performance), or if nothing I hear in this thread leaves me as gobsmacked as when Jonman introduced me to Venetian Snares. But if I come out of this thread with nothing more than a "Russian composers greatest hits", I'd still consider that a win.

But then maybe I'm just reacting to a straw man of cultural elitism. :P

I think you should listen to what you enjoy. That said, the more you listen to classical or any other style, the more of an ear you will develop. You'll find out more about what you like and dislike, and over time, you'll probably perceive more of the complexities of the music as well as the skill and heart of the performers. I listen to both classical and popular music of many genres. The thing about classical is that it is truly art music, and so a listener will benefit from knowing something about the genre and form of the music as well as the intent of the composer. Possibly that could make it too dry, but balance that with all the posts recommending seeing this music performed live. There's nothing as wonderful, IMO, as seeing a great musician perform a complex and demanding work with all the heart that the music has in it. But I'm not always in the right mood to do that. Don't think you automatically fail just because you don't like what others do. No one opinion is right or wrong.

Tanglebones wrote:

Oh, and Sibelius is f'in awesome:

This cannot be overstated.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

About the cultural elitism thing -- I think there is that aspect to it. What I was trying to say is that you may not instantly enjoy stuff without context and study. However, if you happened to want to enjoy something, a bit of context, study, and a live performance can allow that. That being said, there is a lot of classical music that's instantly enjoyable to anyone. I suppose that's the main purpose of this thread!

concentric wrote:

I think you should listen to what you enjoy. That said, the more you listen to classical or any other style, the more of an ear you will develop. You'll find out more about what you like and dislike, and over time, you'll probably perceive more of the complexities of the music as well as the skill and heart of the performers. I listen to both classical and popular music of many genres. The thing about classical is that it is truly art music, and so a listener will benefit from knowing something about the genre and form of the music as well as the intent of the composer. Possibly that could make it too dry, but balance that with all the posts recommending seeing this music performed live. There's nothing as wonderful, IMO, as seeing a great musician perform a complex and demanding work with all the heart that the music has in it. But I'm not always in the right mood to do that. Don't think you automatically fail just because you don't like what others do. No one opinion is right or wrong.

+1 to these!

I used to work at HMV on Sparks Street in Ottawa. The store there is split into two, rock and movies etc. on one side, classical and jazz on the other. I worked on the classical side for about three years. Most of the classical music I'd heard up to that point was from cartoons and a few albums my grandparents had, so I had no idea what was "good". I remember buying my first few classical CDs, just some CD's with a variety of different pieces on them, to better familiarize myself with at least the more commonly heard stuff, and one of my snooty co-workers dismissed the CD's as "schlock" because they weren't the best performances of those pieces in his opinion.

I bought them anyway (after telling said co-worker to stop being such a snob) and formed my own opinions. I still have those CDs, and some of the performances on there still seem really good to me even after 100's of hours of exposure to other versions/interpretations while working at the store.

Listen to everything you can if for no other reason than to simply enjoy the music. And once you've listened to a bunch, listen to this guy mess around with different pieces and have a good laugh. I love me some PDQ Bach (don't watch the video to this though, the camera work will make you want to barf).

EDIT: Love all the giggling in this video...

Thanks for the great responses. I just had to have a little reaction.

That Gustavo Dudamel is a rock star.

If you are fortunate to live in a city with a good symphony-New York, Philly, San Francisco, Detroit, you can start there.

To dip your toe in, check out the Transiberian Orchestra. Their combinations of multiple musical pieces, symphonics, and rock make them very easy to get into.

Late adds:

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

It should be noted that classical music is difficult.

Nonsense. I think pop music is much more fragmented and difficult to approach, actually.

There is music in the Classical tradition all over that you don't even notice because it's in the fabric of life. Movies are an especially good source of this.

Anyway, my quick recommendations after shameless skimming:

1. Mozart and Brahms, string quinets. Just sublime.

2. Bruckner Symphonies 4 and 7.

3. The Sibelus stuff is great.

4. I like the sets of Bach keyboard works ... Well Tempered Clavier, Goldbergs, etc.

5. I'm partial to the 20th century Russians and Eastern Europeans ... Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Martinu, etc.

The great thing about exploring this in the modern era is that it's easy to explore these works without needing to buy whole records. Youtube, the music streaming services and so on are fabulous for this. And, there is a surprising depth and breadth of material available. Much more than I would have thought would be around 4 or 5 years ago.

I hardly buy actual CDs anymore, even for classical music.

Have fun. Take it slow. Don't be intimidated. Just because it's long doesn't make it hard.

Podunk, Stravinsky (and specifically Rite of Spring) are fantastic, but have to be seen as well as heard. It's a huge disservice to not see it performed as a ballet.

Gravey, the late Romantic/Impressionist period is kind of a favorite of mine. I really recommend looking into works by Debussy (already mentioned), Duruflé, Ravel, Fauré, Mussorgsky, Dvořák, and several others. I also recommend dipping your toes into the 20th century for guys like Vaughan Williams, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Barber, and the like — though more 20th century their sound is still distinctly Romantic. Anyway, they should be up your alley if that's what you tend to prefer over Baroque or something.

Here is a small sampling of some of my favorites. I'll lead off with my favoritest piece ever:

Far superior to the more-lauded Rach 3, IMO

EDIT: switched all vids from here on out to external links. It was melting the page. Stupid Flash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brbOI...
SO fun to watch someone play this, hence the crappier audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETNoP...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cao6W...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdcRs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqZw5...
The 3rd one here, "The Coolin'", is just wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTqk...
Simple and elegant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibzxh...
A mac daddy piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGMwN...
The closest one can get to achieving orgasm musically. (As an aside, the last two pieces can be found on this incredible album by the incomparable Bernstein. Everyone should own it.)

(No really, go buy it now.)

(I mean it.)

(Done? Okay, let's continue.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsvpF...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDf...
Classic Looney Tunes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ip64...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol4bS...

…It's a start, anyway. There's tons more out there, for sure.

Oh. I'll echo the importance of seeing live performances. But, live performances are *much* better if you are already familiar with the music ahead of time. So you should explore recordings of things you plan to see live. Always.

The other thing that needs to be stressed is that it's still an evolving art form. New music is composed & premiered every day; the established canon has hundreds of years of good stuff, but it's not all there is.

psu_13 wrote:

Oh. I'll echo the importance of seeing live performances. But, live performances are *much* better if you are already familiar with the music ahead of time. So you should explore recordings of things you plan to see live. Always.

Eh, I don't know if I could agree with that categorically. Can knowing the piece well deepen your enjoyment, allowing you to concentrate on little areas the performers rehearsed a lot? Definitely. Is there power in hearing something for the first time in a live setting? Absolutely.

The first time I heard Duruflé's Requiem I went in blind to a performance because my vocal teacher was one of the soloists. Sat 3rd row. Had my hair parted I was so blown away by it. I think that it would have lost some of that magic had I already done some aural research on the piece.

Since the "have to hear it live" keeps getting brought up, I have to shoot it down for myself. It's emphatically not going to happen. My wife and I haven't even seen a movie since our baby was born, and even if we had the time and opportunity, we don't have the money. I appreciate it—seeing Ween live is always better than recorded—but it's starting to rankle for the reasons I didn't want to get into before: the idea that I'm not really hearing it unless it's live/on vinyl/routed through gold-wrapped cables.

Besides, I can't very well go to a live performance in the middle of a work day or during my commute. I'm not looking for a life-changing experience, I'm looking for more stuff that sounds like the stuff I like, for 99c a download, that I can throw on my iPhone.

Fair enough. I only mentioned it specifically with Rite of Spring because it was written as a ballet, and really makes a lot more sense if you see people performing the choreography.

And it does get better. You have to work harder at it, but dates are still possible after kids are born.

Minarchist wrote:

Fair enough. I only mentioned it specifically with Rite of Spring because it was written as a ballet, and really makes a lot more sense if you see dinosaurs performing the choreography.

And it does get better. You have to work harder at it, but dates are still possible after kids are born. :)

FTFY.

This is reminding me, I want to find a time to take my wife to the DSO before we move out of state. Oddly enough, my parents first date was to the DSO, and I only went once when I was quite young as part of a school event.

Tanglebones wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

Fair enough. I only mentioned it specifically with Rite of Spring because it was written as a ballet, and really makes a lot more sense if you see dinosaurs performing the choreography.

And it does get better. You have to work harder at it, but dates are still possible after kids are born. :)

FTFY.