Snowboarding/Skiing Catch-all

Jonman wrote:

I have absolutely no doubt that lessons would result in me being a better snowboarder. But my primary goal on a board is fun, not proficiency. A significant part of the fun I derive from it is self-mastery. It's quite possible that lessons would result in less fun.

I have a similar view. When I switched to snowboarding, I started having fun just working my way back up the mountain. Then I got too into it and started taking lessons 2-3 times a season, which led me to increasingly varied terrain and a lot of backcountry action. Eventually I figured out that I wasn't having much fun any more, because I was working too hard at taking on "challenging" terrain and improving my ability.

Now I just ride groomers most of the day, looking for hits on the edges of runs and flying past hapless novices. Fun rediscovered. And my injury rate has fallen to zero, which is increasingly important as I get older.

@Jonman
What lessons have done for me is allow me to take better advantage of the technology. I like the the feeling of cutting an arc, and really loading the ski, and getting the kick at the end of the turn. To do this in a short radius, in difficult conditions, you have to balanced and have good timing. Working on these things has allowed me to get more performance out of the equipment in a shorter period of time, and to a level higher than I could have done myself. For me this is fun. I'm also a rower. I have a thing with individual sports which involve mastering the equipment (except golf, no good at that).

I admit that part of it is ego driven. Most of it is achievement driven. The certification system in the CSIA is like MMO quests. There they are. I need to go after them.

@THG, you nailed it. Wider stance is more stable. As long as your knees and boots aren't touching you're probably OK. A lot of my clients want that 90's noodler look. What we're after is the most efficeint way of using the skis; to either accelerate you by turning and loading the skis, or for controlling your decent. Being balanced, and dynamic allows you to ski all conditions, all terrain.

Also knees together tends to prevent independent knee action (your legs need to be bent by different amounts during the turn), and your boots can get in the way of each other, limiting the amount of edge angle you can get.

A lot of fun results from having access to the entire mountain, and being able to ski all of that terrain with confidence. As you improve, you'll need to access more difficult terrain to challenge yourself.

Part of it may also be, that I don't have access to difficult terrain. I need to work on technique more than go to terrain which is beyond my skill level. This is all a function of geography, and cost. I only really get to a small local hill. Does that make sense? I don't know if I've captured the reason. Like if you only had 10 ft of sidewalk and one park bench to skateboard on, soon you've be doing harder and harder tricks on that park bench, just because it's all you've got.

On the one hand, I love that summertime means I spent a fair amount of Saturday in an outdoor pool with a beer.

On the other hand, this thread is making me miss skiing.

Got a trip coming up in 2 weeks to Park City, 4 days. My one trip this year, praying for snow.

Mr Crinkle wrote:

Now I just ride groomers most of the day, looking for hits on the edges of runs and flying past hapless novices. Fun rediscovered. And my injury rate has fallen to zero, which is increasingly important as I get older.

This is the best thing. And with the wife learning to snowboard too, it's turned mostly into doing the same, but switch.

I haven't skied in two years, but I miss racing. I raced slalom and giant slalom for six years. I got bored on smallish mountains without pushing myself on a difficult course. A lot of my friends out here ski now, but I have reservations about skiing with people that have less experience than me. I also have a knee injury that can flair up in the cold, but it's been more than a year since it has slowed me down any.

My last new pair of skis was in 2007, so I could probably pick up used pair circa 2011 for a good price and feel excited about skiing again. I haven't shopped for used skis before, any one have suggestions?

S0LIDARITY wrote:

I haven't skied in two years, but I miss racing. I raced slalom and giant slalom for six years. I got bored on smallish mountains without pushing myself on a difficult course. A lot of my friends out here ski now, but I have reservations about skiing with people that have less experience than me. I also have a knee injury that can flair up in the cold, but it's been more than a year since it has slowed me down any.

My last new pair of skis was in 2007, so I could probably pick up used pair circa 2011 for a good price and feel excited about skiing again. I haven't shopped for used skis before, any one have suggestions?

Where do you do most of your skiing, and in what sort of conditions?
What did you race on?
Which events did you race?
Do you do your own tuning, and how often?

You're a racer, so I'll assume your technique is still similar, and thoroughly ingrained. I'm guessing that you're looking at a race ski, or a softened, race oriented all mountain ski.

Slalom class, 7-13m theoretical radius
Rosignol, Head, and Fischer are popular around here for manmade machine groomed granular conditions which strip off to hardpacked base by about 1:00 pm.

Vokil has a local cult following driven by a the smallest local specialty shop.

If you ski small hills, stay out of the GS and 18m radius stuff. We haven't got enough hill for anything like that. This also, assuming that you're recreationally skiing and will be many more turns than when you're racing; unless you were a slalom racer, in which case you'll be doing fewer? and you'll be comfortable whipping the shortest radius ski around.

I ski a rossignol 9s oversize (about four years old). It's fantastic, and hasn't changed much since the gold and black deck. Then they went to orange and green. In the last couple of years they've gone red white and blue. Pay attention to the model names. The deck graphics are consistent across models. It's not the way to tell which ski you have.

Mt. St. Marie? Really? I work for the company that owns it, but at Camp Fortune.
Why did you drive to Mt. St. Marie? From Rochester, wouldn't you be about the same time to some of the Quebec resorts like St. Anne, Mt. Tremblant, Grey Rocks, and not to mention, Stowe, and the other VT. locations?

I'd say, until you get into Killington, Sugar Bush, Stowe, etc. you probably want a slalom ski. In those VT places you may have more real snow, and snowfall worth talking about.
Go to your local ski shop. Any ski shop worth it's salt will credit any demo fees to your eventual purchase.
Rent demo skis. Ski everything you can.
If you see a demo tent on the hill, hit it. They make it fast and easy.
Mt. Tremblant has a permanent demo tent at the top (I think. It's been a few years).

The season before I bought, I skied nothing but demos. Didn't ski my own skis once.

We should have a spring ski S&T. I don't know if any of the local GWJers ski.

I used to ski most frequently near Rochester NY, but I've taken trips to Colorado and drove up to Mt Saint Marie in Quebec once. I haven't been skiing out in NH or Vermont yet, so I'm not sure what the conditions are like out here. I think most of my time was spent on a mix of artificial and heavily groomed heavy snow. My 6 years of racing involved lots of coaching, and I skied for 7 years or so with regular lessons before racing. I snowboarded for 2 years before racing, but that was mostly self-taught.

EDIT: I had some Dynastar GS skis, and some Atomic Slalom skis. I preferred the Atomics for recreational skiing. I waxed and sharpened my own skis but left tuning to my coach, who ran a ski-shop.

Ghostship wrote:

I'm guessing that you're looking at a race ski, or a softened, race oriented all mountain ski.

Bingo. I'd probably look for a Slalom ski first, and open up the search to an all-mountain ski depending on the price-point.

Ghostship wrote:

If you ski small hills, stay out of the GS and 18m radius stuff. We haven't got enough hill for anything like that. This also, assuming that you're recreationally skiing and will be many more turns than when you're racing; unless you were a slalom racer, in which case you'll be doing fewer? and you'll be comfortable whipping the shortest radius ski around.

It's probable that I would spend the most time at Gunstock, 1,400ft vertical.

Ghostship wrote:

I ski a rossignol 9s oversize (about four years old). It's fantastic, and hasn't changed much since the gold and black deck. Then they went to orange and green. In the last couple of years they've gone red white and blue. Pay attention to the model names. The deck graphics are consistent across models. It's not the way to tell which ski you have.

Any tips on bindings? I don't expect that they've changed much, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I really miss skiing. When we lived in downtown Seattle, my wife and I would head up to Stevens Pass a handful of times per year. Once we moved south of the city, we started going to Crystal Mountain. Both fantastic areas. Of course we'd also do a weekend trip up to Whistler every few years.

For anyone who doesn't care about football, SuperBowl Sunday is a great day to go skiing. Of the four SuperBowl Sundays we spent at Crystal before moving out of Washington, on three of the the mountain was almost completely empty and the fourth had a minimal crowd.

Ghostship wrote:

Mt. St. Marie? Really?

It was my dad's choice, we were coming from Lisbon, NY.

Ghostship wrote:

We should have a spring ski S&T. I don't know if any of the local GWJers ski.

I think that's a great idea.

I've been thinking about learning to ski/snowboard, but the cost and indecision about which has kept me from doing it.

It's cheap compared to a lot of hobbies, especially just to go dip your toes in to see how much you like it. Group lessons are typically around $100/day including lift pass for the school runs and a basic rental package. You'll probably need three days to get comfortable enough to go out on your own. Snowboarding has a bit higher difficulty for beginners.

Yow, $100/day x3 days plus lift tickets and rentals beyond that does not a cheap hobby make.

jonnypolite wrote:

Got a trip coming up in 2 weeks to Park City, 4 days. My one trip this year, praying for snow.

It's snowing in the Salt Lake Valley right now, so odds are good.

Chaz wrote:

Yow, $100/day x3 days plus lift tickets and rentals beyond that does not a cheap hobby make. ;)

Man, lucky you if that seems over the top. I have a hobby of picking up expensive hobbies.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Chaz wrote:

Yow, $100/day x3 days plus lift tickets and rentals beyond that does not a cheap hobby make. ;)

Man, lucky you if that seems over the top. I have a hobby of picking up expensive hobbies.

I try and avoid them. It helps that I'm currently working on paying for a wedding and a down payment on a house. If I get to spend $100 on a few board games every six months or so, that's pretty big spending.

Chaz wrote:

Yow, $100/day x3 days plus lift tickets and rentals beyond that does not a cheap hobby make. ;)

A lot of places will include the lift ticket and rental gear in the lesson charge. I'd say that's not too bad to see if it's something you're interested in. Once you're hooked - that's when it becomes expensive.

Chaz wrote:

Yow, $100/day x3 days plus lift tickets and rentals beyond that does not a cheap hobby make. ;)

You're in NH? Go to Danbury, and visit Ragged Mountain. $64 gets you a ticket, 2 hour lesson, and equipment rental. If you like it, lift tickets can be found on www.liftopia.com for $30-$40/day.

My wife and I started snowboarding last year and have really enjoyed it. We took lessons the first three times we went last year, and I'm glad we did.
This season we got out in real snow at Wisp in western MD this weekend and it was pretty good for a Yankee mountain. I learned to ski on sheets of ice in the Poconos and have ice skated for ten years, so learning the side slip wasn't too hard for me. It's been more difficult for my wife to pick up, but she's getting there. We're going to try the closer PA mountains in the next couple of weekends. We've been to Whitetail a couple of times, Liberty and Roundtop will be new. We're tentatively planning a Utah trip to Alta, because they have a really cheap "green trails only" lift ticket, which would be great for us. I could probably handle most blues at this point as I can always side slip down a steep trail, but my wife probably won't for a while, yet. She insists on cutting in and making good carves and skidding as little as possible. Where I just slow myself in and out of turns if I'm going too fast.

There's a good series of how to snowboard videos on youtube that are actually really good for beginners (if a bit cheesy here and there) at http://snowprofessor.com/

Ghostship wrote:

Having tried once before the beginner lesson, I'd say, take the lesson. Shortcut that pain period.

Agree 100%, especially with snowboarding. We took a lesson each of our first three times. I don't think the third one was really necessary for me, because I've ski'd a few times before, have ice skated for years and watched all of the snow professor videos before the third lesson. But the first was absolutely critical to understanding the mechanics and correcting early problems with posture. My posture is really good now, except I still don't quite lean over the nose of the board as much as I probably should.

yeah, the thing about snowboarding is that you just have to get past the first 3 days. Then the learning curve is such that you almost feel like you're getting better on each run.

jonnypolite wrote:

yeah, the thing about snowboarding is that you just have to get past the first 3 days. Then the learning curve is such that you almost feel like you're getting better on each run.

One exception in my experience. Getting off the chairlift.

Take a Beginner Special. Ski, or sideways people.

I'm a beginner snowboarder, or I was, (as in, I haven't done it in a while, NOT as in, I'm great now) and I bought the beginner package at Mt. Tremblant.

Snowboarding is an awesome feeling if you can get in at least 8-10 cm of fresh snow. So floaty.

I remember snowboarding being so punishing and frustrating, then having a light bulb moment. Suddenly it just made sense, and everything changed. It's just getting through that frustration period that is really difficult, and painful.

Having tried once before the beginner lesson, I'd say, take the lesson. Shortcut that pain period.

Stomp pads are your friend.

Mr Crinkle wrote:

Stomp pads are your friend.

I got one for my board as an X-mas gift. It's a spiky yin-yang shaped one from Burton and I love it. Especially for getting off the lift or skating in the lift line.

S0LIDARITY wrote:
jonnypolite wrote:

yeah, the thing about snowboarding is that you just have to get past the first 3 days. Then the learning curve is such that you almost feel like you're getting better on each run.

One exception in my experience. Getting off the chairlift.

This.

The *only* time I fall on my ass in an entire day on the mountain is getting off the chairlift.

Jonman wrote:
S0LIDARITY wrote:
jonnypolite wrote:

yeah, the thing about snowboarding is that you just have to get past the first 3 days. Then the learning curve is such that you almost feel like you're getting better on each run.

One exception in my experience. Getting off the chairlift.

This.

The *only* time I fall on my ass in an entire day on the mountain is getting off the chairlift.

Is this on skis, Jonman? Or on a board? If the former, it's certainly something we can resolve. I can't speak to the latter.

TheHipGamer wrote:
Jonman wrote:
S0LIDARITY wrote:
jonnypolite wrote:

yeah, the thing about snowboarding is that you just have to get past the first 3 days. Then the learning curve is such that you almost feel like you're getting better on each run.

One exception in my experience. Getting off the chairlift.

This.

The *only* time I fall on my ass in an entire day on the mountain is getting off the chairlift.

Is this on skis, Jonman? Or on a board? If the former, it's certainly something we can resolve. I can't speak to the latter.

Board. For all that I'm pretty proficient, I still get nervous when I'm in close proximity to other people, and that's what bites me in the ass with the lifts.

It's a problem that's fixing itself anyway. It happens less and less each season, and I suspect that this will be the last one where it happens at all. My pet theory on snowboarding is that it's 20% ability and 80% confidence in your ability.