The Big Gun Control Thread

I actually think that looking at it on a state-based level is not granular enough. Something more on the level of municipalities, counties, zip codes, or something like that (if possible) would be a better way to break it down, and then account for demographics like economic status, education, population density, gun ownership rate, etc to try to start analyzing correlations.

"Red vs Blue" isn't a very helpful metric given that the nation is mostly purple.

Funkenpants wrote:

Incidentally, firearms death rates by state are here. The rates pretty much look like you'd expect them to look, though I don't know which time periods the stats refer to.

Lowest state is Hawaii with 2.8 per 100000, the highest state is Alaska with 20. District of Columbia is 31.2.

There is a big difference in rates, which makes me wonder about the idea that there is a single American culture of gun violence to worry about.

I'm REALLY questioning the accuracy of this count. I live in Idaho and I watch the news all the time I rarely hear about death by firearm here. On the same note, I have a buddy who moved up here from southern cal. and he say's there's shootings all the time down there and yet California has a lower death rate than Idaho. Something is not quite right with this. And what is this? Annually?

Per capita. There are a hell of a lot more people who live in California.

Ah it states the year 2002. Something still doesn't seem right to me. Does it factor in accidents, murders, suicide?

As far as I know, the cities of Chicago and Washington, DC have the most restrictive gun laws in the country (absolute bans on handguns). They have been challenged in court, but even so, the numbers of legally owned handguns are in the handfuls.

Interestingly enough, Washington, DC has one of the highest homicide rates (though it is dropping), while Chicago has the fastest growing homicide rate.

One would think that if there was some kind of correlation between restrictive gun laws and homicide rates, there would be some... well... correlation.

Paleocon wrote:

Interestingly enough, Washington, DC has one of the highest homicide rates

I have to admit I'm tempted to insert some tasteless joke about politicians here. Bad Farscry, bad!

Well don't forget that if DC has these restrictive guns laws, everyone will go and get their guns in VA. It has yet to be seen whether really limiting access nationwide will have an effect. Selective enforcement and border hopping completely neuter any bans set in place. I mean I guess people will smuggle them in from Canada and Mexico then?

You know I love westerns and ww2 movies but I really wish we'd lose our fascination with vigilantes and frontier justice. The court of public opinion is already warping our judicial system. Going back to frontier justice will make it so much worse.

Speaking of the stats, I thought this might be relevant to the current topic.

"Gangs are responsible for an average of 48 percent of violent crime in most jurisdictions and up to 90 percent in several others, according to NGIC analysis. Major cities and suburban areas experience the most gang-related violence. ... Many gangs have advanced beyond their traditional role as local retail drug distributors in large cities to become more organized, adaptable, and influential in large-scale drug trafficking."

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...

The response in Maricopa County:

Joe Arpaio Dispatches Armed Volunteer Posses To Begin School Patrols

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's armed volunteer posses are set to begin patrolling areas around Phoenix, Ariz. schools on Monday, more than a week after the plan drew national attention in the wake of the deadly mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Arizona's 3TV reports that Arpaio's volunteer force is comprised of around 3,000 members, some of which have criminal pasts.

Paleocon wrote:

Interestingly enough, Washington, DC has one of the highest homicide rates (though it is dropping), while Chicago has the fastest growing homicide rate.

One would think that if there was some kind of correlation between restrictive gun laws and homicide rates, there would be some... well... correlation.

These are cities we're talking about with known problems of gun imports from other places that have loose gun purchase requirements. Virginia is how far away from D.C.? This one of the major reasons for having a national system of regulations.

A website lists measures that help curb the traffic in guns. This isn't like dealing with crack cocaine, which is illegal from the moment of creation to its distribution. The guns used in crimes tend to be sourced from within the domestic legal market, but when people try to get a handle on that market by various measures, we're told it's the first step toward Nazis and concentration camps.

Funkenpants wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Interestingly enough, Washington, DC has one of the highest homicide rates (though it is dropping), while Chicago has the fastest growing homicide rate.

One would think that if there was some kind of correlation between restrictive gun laws and homicide rates, there would be some... well... correlation.

These are cities we're talking about with known problems of gun imports from other places that have loose gun purchase requirements. Virginia is how far away from D.C.? This one of the major reasons for having a national system of regulations.

A website lists measures that help curb the traffic in guns. This isn't like dealing with crack cocaine, which is illegal from the moment of creation to its distribution. The guns used in crimes tend to be sourced from within the domestic legal market, but when people try to get a handle on that market by various measures, we're told it's the first step toward Nazis and concentration camps.

As I noted above, the most frequent vector for illegal firearms transfers is between a lawful owner and a felon in areas like SE Washington (the hot spots of gun related homicide) are the straw purchases of primarily female friends and relations. Toss them in Assrape Federal Penitentiary instead of reducing sentences to PBJ misdemeanors and I am certain you will see a non-trivial drop off in that sort of activity.

Paleocon wrote:

the straw purchases of primarily female friends and relations. Toss them in Assrape Federal Penitentiary instead of reducing sentences to PBJ misdemeanors and I am certain you will see a non-trivial drop off in that sort of activity.

From the reading I've done since checking in to that, I've not found any hard data to corroborate specific demographics as the problem, so I will admit that every time you rant about grandma or girlfriend or whomever, it detracts from your actual point.

The harsh penalties need to be applied to both the straw purchasers themselves and the dealers who are making an obvious straw purchase deal (which the ATF found is disturbingly common via undercover investigations).

Farscry wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

the straw purchases of primarily female friends and relations. Toss them in Assrape Federal Penitentiary instead of reducing sentences to PBJ misdemeanors and I am certain you will see a non-trivial drop off in that sort of activity.

every time you rant about grandma or girlfriend or whomever,

I can't help but think

IMAGE(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i453/czpv/MJ_zpse175fe73.jpg)

Tanglebones wrote:

The response in Maricopa County:

Joe Arpaio Dispatches Armed Volunteer Posses To Begin School Patrols

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's armed volunteer posses are set to begin patrolling areas around Phoenix, Ariz. schools on Monday, more than a week after the plan drew national attention in the wake of the deadly mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Arizona's 3TV reports that Arpaio's volunteer force is comprised of around 3,000 members, some of which have criminal pasts.

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.

Hypatian wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

The response in Maricopa County:

Joe Arpaio Dispatches Armed Volunteer Posses To Begin School Patrols

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's armed volunteer posses are set to begin patrolling areas around Phoenix, Ariz. schools on Monday, more than a week after the plan drew national attention in the wake of the deadly mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Arizona's 3TV reports that Arpaio's volunteer force is comprised of around 3,000 members, some of which have criminal pasts.

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.

I'm still willing to bet they'll stop a student they think looks Mexican from entering the school. I hope he's the George Wallace of our time, and not the awesome comedian George Wallace, but the sh*tty Governer one.

Hypatian wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

The response in Maricopa County:

Joe Arpaio Dispatches Armed Volunteer Posses To Begin School Patrols

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's armed volunteer posses are set to begin patrolling areas around Phoenix, Ariz. schools on Monday, more than a week after the plan drew national attention in the wake of the deadly mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Arizona's 3TV reports that Arpaio's volunteer force is comprised of around 3,000 members, some of which have criminal pasts.

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.

I feel safer already just knowing I don't live in Phoenix.

Paleocon wrote:

As I noted above, the most frequent vector for illegal firearms transfers is between a lawful owner and a felon in areas like SE Washington (the hot spots of gun related homicide) are the straw purchases of primarily female friends and relations. Toss them in Assrape Federal Penitentiary instead of reducing sentences to PBJ misdemeanors and I am certain you will see a non-trivial drop off in that sort of activity.

Why do we need to wait for people to commit crimes when we could take regulatory steps that could help prevent them? If we determine that 20% of guns sold will end up being used in a crime within 2 years, why wouldn't we consider every possible way of reducing that figure?

Enhanced penalties may be one method, but so might increased scrutiny of transactions, treating the purchase of a pocket-instant-death machine with a little more seriousness than we currently do. It should be a big f*cking deal to buy and own a handgun because of the number of deaths they cause every year.

Nice comments from John Stewart

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...

Todd Rathner, an Arizona lobbyist and national board member of the National Rifle Association, has threatened to sue over the city of Tucson's gun buyback, NPR reported Wednesday.

Link Short version: Police want to destroy the guns, NRA board member wants to see them resold on the open market. There was another buyback program a short distance away set up to compete with the police buyback:

At the gun buyback, gun-rights advocates held signs reading "Cash For Guns" and "Pay Double for Your Guns." As cars pulled into the parking lot, they asked drivers if they wanted to sell their guns privately rather than turn them in. There were few takers.

I didn't understand the reaction. Is it because they view guns in the same way some people view stray dogs? There is a good home waiting for every unwanted gun?

I've seen enough "a gun is looking for a new good home" classifieds.

From a Russian-language newspaper:

Izvestia[/url]]So what is the usefulness [of the fireams]? There isn't any. Weapons are a fetish which stimulates and satisfies dark issues and secret fears that remain unilluminated by the mind. As every fetish, weapons replace the true object of the desire. A fanatic of the weapon projects his fantasies, tamed by the civilization, upon it: might, power, strength, and violence.

Great article. Thanks for linking.

Google translate to the rescue:

Nothing, except that the abortion issue does not share America as clearly as the relation to firearms, half the country owns them, and the second - no. Both parts together after the shooting of school children in Connecticut and decided it was time to take effective action. Some want to get rid of the weapons, at least the high-velocity, which prefer Leon recharge maniacs. Others believe that America does not have enough weapons and to prevent the next tragedy will be armed with the teacher, the oversight of each school police officers and volunteers from the private arsenal.

("high-velocity, which prefer Leon recharge maniacs" seems to be translation of the Russian word for assault rifles).

I'm glad Russians are telling us about violence, that peaceful paradise of a nation where a man of any color or nationality is free to walk the streets.

It is odd how a country like Russia could look at our culture and say "wow! That is screwed up!"

Kind of like a crack addict telling you you should cut back on the drugs. If they know you have a problem it must be a huge problem.

Yeah, it's almost like there are writers here who have an opinion about gun violence. They should know better, because we shoot lots of people here. An American should never right about such things!

Funkenpants wrote:

("high-velocity, which prefer Leon recharge maniacs" seems to be translation of the Russian word for assault rifles).

I prefer to think that, being European, their cultural shorthand isn't "Rambo wannabe" but "Leon: The Professional wannabe."

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:

("high-velocity, which prefer Leon recharge maniacs" seems to be translation of the Russian word for assault rifles).

I prefer to think that, being European, their cultural shorthand isn't "Rambo wannabe" but "Leon: The Professional wannabe."

Which is exactly the wrong way about making guns less appealing.

Even now, before swatting a fly I often say, "No women, no children."

MaverickDago wrote:

I'm glad Russians are telling us about violence, that peaceful paradise of a nation where a man of any color or nationality is free to walk the streets.

Your point is well made, but I think ultimately Farley has the right of it.

I think I missed the point.