So Long, My Wii — Now Playing: ?

Blind_Evil wrote:

Sport? How so? You eat the meat!

Preferably cooked, though.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I finally played a standard game last night, and it was a little disorienting. The differences between the easy rules and the standard are sometimes very slight (different max capital values, for example) and sometimes very big (you know, the whole "stocks" thing). I like it, but it's almost a completely different game: more of a strategy game than easy mode's more casual fun. I'd say both have their place.

The biggest thing is that I'm having to re-learn my strategies for winning. I was kinda starting to get the hang of easy mode a bit, but almost none of those strategies carry over into standard mode. I'm still trying to figure out when to buy stocks, when to sell of my stocks in a district, and how to make sure that a rising tide doesn't lift all the boats at once. In the game I'm playing right now, one of the opposing characters (Slime) is invested in the same districts I am, so anything I do to raise their value also lines his pockets, so I can't gain any ground on him.

The different strategies involving stocks et al combined with the plethora of maps is what keeps the Fortune Street series fresh. The more fiddly bits take some getting used to, but considering I learned the game while playing it in Japanese (and knowing next to nothing from that language) I'm sure you'll get a handle on it. There's immense satisfaction from pulling out all your investment in an area right before someone is about to win.

Still, the game has a bunch of flaws and I'm scared we won't see another one outside of Japan. If only there was a 'lightning' version w/o all the fluff.

I've put a little bit more time into Monster Hunter Tri now, and I'm starting to understand what's so appealing about this series.

I'm not very far in. I've only just unlocked the girl who gives you quests from outside the village and completed the mission to hunt my first underwater creature. Still, I can see how some of the gameplay elements link up and am really excited by what I've seen.

I like the central loop of collecting resources, crafting equipment, and otherwise preparing your character for a hunt. It makes the hunts more dramatic because you've been doing all of these smaller, more incidental tasks to build up for a go at a more monumental event. I like the game's emphasis on equipment over character levels, especially since it appears at this point that I'm going to need to craft a lot of my equipment using basic, otherwise useless items I gather in the field or from carcasses. In that sense, Monster Hunter Tri reminds me a lot of Rune Factory Frontier and the way that game had you building everything your character had, from the weapons you used to the clothes you wore to the food you ate, from basic components.

I also really enjoy the way the game encourages you to sometimes not act. Outside of the stealth genre, most video games encourage action over waiting. You're expected to go ahead and tackle that platforming section or dive into that fight. Monster Hunter Tri takes a bit of a different approach by encouraging you to instead gather information about a target before you hunt it, both by in-game means like the Hunter's Log, and by the extra-game means of simply watching the creatures as they go about their lives.

I had a really neat experience when I was sent to hunt my first carnivores (a pack of Jaggis). I entered the area where I was told they would be, and rather than attacking them right away, I hung back and just watched their behavior for a bit. I felt like a got a much better sense of them as creatures than as simply targets. (And then I killed them. My vegetarian guilt is making this game difficult sometimes.)

At this point, I'd say I'm interested enough in the game to keep playing it for awhile. I was concerned at first because I'd heard so much about how the game wasn't that great in single player mode and because I was really disappointed by the demo disc Nintendo circulated a few years back. However, what I've found is that the single player mode is robust and enjoyable on its own. It doesn't feel at all like your usual "training for the multiplayer" campaign. Likewise, the demo disc turns out to have been a poor indication of the game's quality. It was the kind of demo that dumps you into a hunt much later in the game without any of the training or build-up that you really need for that hunt to have significance. If you likewise tried the demo disc and were put off, you might give the full version another look.

My only real question at this point is whether or not I want to continue playing this on the Wii. I'm not bothered by the visual fidelity or the controls (I'm using a classic controller pro), so holding out for the Wii U version is less appealing. However, the 3DS version could be really great for me. I generally prefer playing portable games these days, mainly because of the ability to suspend and resume, and Monster Hunter Tri looks like it would be the kind of longer game that works well on a handheld. The lack of online multiplayer in the 3DS version doesn't really matter to me as I don't intend to play the game online. My only concern is about the controls. I do like that second analog stick.

In unrelated news, my wife and I (but mostly my wife) finished up the Easy Mode tour in Fortune Street and loved it. The Wii's system clock put it at just shy of 48 hours to beat, although some of that time was the console being on but not in use. This has easily become one of my favorite Wii games, and I'd highly recommend it if you like board games. I know it looks like Nintendo Monopoly, but it's a lot deeper and more interesting.

We've started up in Standard Mode and have admittedly had a bit of a hard time adjusting. The strategies for the two games, as I mentioned before, are totally different and even vary a bit from map to map. We're still working out when and how to use stocks and getting used to the very different amounts of money available to the player. We're still enjoying it though and are putting in an average of an hour a night.

Clockwork, I have both Monster Hunter on the PSP (forget which version, the most recent), and Tri on the Wii. I don't know what the 3DS version is like, but the PSP and Wii versions are rather similar. The Wii version is better, the main reason being what you said, the second analog stick. It still works on the PSP, but moving the camera is a bit of a pain.

There are other small things that are probably different and updated on the Wii version, but overall it's a very similar game. I'd say you probably would barely notice unless you spent considerable time with both. The portable version is still very much "hunt, gather resources, build armor and weapons". It's a good formula and actually works decently on portable systems. Go on a hunt for 20 minutes at a time.

I just want to note that Fortune Street is now the fourth most-played game on our Wii after Wii Sports, Wii Fit Plus, and Big Brain Academy.

Cool. Spread the word. Evangelize. Hopefully someone will actually buy it.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

My only real question at this point is whether or not I want to continue playing this on the Wii. I'm not bothered by the visual fidelity or the controls (I'm using a classic controller pro), so holding out for the Wii U version is less appealing. However, the 3DS version could be really great for me. I generally prefer playing portable games these days, mainly because of the ability to suspend and resume, and Monster Hunter Tri looks like it would be the kind of longer game that works well on a handheld. The lack of online multiplayer in the 3DS version doesn't really matter to me as I don't intend to play the game online. My only concern is about the controls. I do like that second analog stick.

My advice would be to consider whether or not you're interested in the added monsters. To me MH3 is all about the tactical boss-battles and I want as much variety in those fights as possible. I tried to finish up MH3 over my Christmas vacation but found I was too far removed and my skills/knowledge had deteriorated to the point where I was frustrated. I'm tempted to pick up a WiiU for Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate because I never got to experience the multiplayer of MH3 and I want to fight some new bosses.

If the new monsters interest you, I'd say wait for the 3DS version. If not, I'd say wrap it up on the Wii as the first few missions are tedious to replay and relearning to treat the peaceful monsters as resources could derail another attempt.

garion333 wrote:

Cool. Spread the word. Evangelize. Hopefully someone will actually buy it.

Word. It really is pretty awesome, especially as you get deeper into Standard Mode. Easy Mode is cool, but Standard Mode has some neat strategies layered on with the stock market, vacant lots, and the like. I'm a huge fan of this game and hope they localize a sequel on the Wii U or 3DS. I won't get my hopes up, though.

Spoiler:

I'm still sad about Culdcept 3DS not getting localized. :(

Citizen86 wrote:

I don't know what the 3DS version is like, but the PSP and Wii versions are rather similar. The Wii version is better, the main reason being what you said, the second analog stick. It still works on the PSP, but moving the camera is a bit of a pain.

S0LIDARITY wrote:

If the new monsters interest you, I'd say wait for the 3DS version. If not, I'd say wrap it up on the Wii as the first few missions are tedious to replay and relearning to treat the peaceful monsters as resources could derail another attempt.

I might end up on the 3DS out of necessity. The last time I dragged myself away from Fortune Street played for a bit, I did the first guild quest. The time limit was 50 minutes, and I wasn't able to save during that time. I know I make a big deal out of this on a regular basis, but I don't have that kind of time where I can devote an hour of hard work to a game without being able to save if something comes up. I don't mind tossing fifteen or twenty minutes of play if I need to, but more than that and I start to get grumpy.

Gaming on a handheld would totally get around that. I'm just nervous about the controls on the 3DS. I suppose I could always go with a Circle Pad Pro if it doesn't make the console huge (i.e., Vita-sized ;)).

I was unaware of your time constraints. Typically, my first encounter with a new monster tested the imposed time limit. Especially if it was in a new area. After facing the same monster 3-4 times, I could repeat a mission in 20 minutes. I believe on the NPC's mentions that if time-runs out the damage done to a monster will carry over to the next attempt, I'm not sure if that's true if you voluntarily abandon the quest.

I assume the 3DS version won't control any worse than on the PSP. It's not the most ideal, but it's workable.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The last time I dragged myself away from Fortune Street played for a bit, I did the first guild quest. The time limit was 50 minutes, and I wasn't able to save during that time. I know I make a big deal out of this on a regular basis, but I don't have that kind of time where I can devote an hour of hard work to a game without being able to save if something comes up. I don't mind tossing fifteen or twenty minutes of play if I need to, but more than that and I start to get grumpy.

Gaming on a handheld would totally get around that. I'm just nervous about the controls on the 3DS. I suppose I could always go with a Circle Pad Pro if it doesn't make the console huge (i.e., Vita-sized ;)).

You will be redoing quests over and over, firstly to get better at reading the monster and defeating it, and secondly to get the materials and items you receive from carving them and as quest rewards. There are some rare drops that you might not get the first, or fifth, or tenth time... I remember trying to get the King's Frill from the Great Jaggi and it would never show up after completing the quest. Then I realized that I had to actually break the part by hitting it on the head until it broke, and then it would start showing up on the rewards.

It is definitely a time commitment though, there is no saving mid quest. Monster Hunter can be terribly frustrating, especially when you fail quests. Controller hurling. As you get better though, you'll not need the entire time.

As for controls, Circle Pad Pro is definitely one way, the other is to learn the 'claw', which is using your left hand to control both moving and camera. I think the 3DS version implemented a lock on button, so you might be ok just using that. Just try not to throw the 3DS in frustration.

While I waffled over whether or not to continue Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii, I played through the first world of Donkey Kong Country Returns. I played solo since my wife and I have a nice co-op game right now.

I'd played the first level a couple months back, but this was my first time really digging into it. I have mixed feelings about it so far.

The level designs are fun, and the art is beautiful. I didn't play much of the original Donkey Kong Country, but I remember vividly the 3D sprites and the lush backgrounds. I love the way Retro used the Wii's much more advanced graphics capabilities to create a more fully realized version of that same look. Donkey Kong Country Returns looks like Donkey Kong Country but with a deeper, richer world that responds to the player in interesting ways and breaks out of the limitations of a side-scrolling world.

Especially delightful is the way the gameplay extends into the background. I'm used to platformers that treat the background as a bit of visual dressing behind the action, but Donkey Kong Country Returns uses it as both a visual space—tucking all kinds of neat visuals into the background—and as a physical space. Statues fall out of the background and into the player's path, barrels shoot players deep into the distance, and bonus areas pop up just on the other side of the jungle for players to puzzle out how to access. It's a neat way to make the world seem much larger than what the player is viewing right then.

On the downside, I'm not as absorbed by the collectibles as I had hoped. As with Rayman Origins, I'm enjoying the basic platforming but find that I don't particularly care to search out hidden items or to even collect the items I can see. I'm not sure what the difference is between those games and the New Super Mario Bros. series where I obsessively track down every Star Coin I can. I'll have to think about that for a bit.

My biggest issues with Donkey Kong Country Returns, though, is with the controls. I've been playing the game with the Wiimote turned sideways, and while I'm generally a fan of motion controls, I feel like they're used here in a way that's distracting and un-fun.

Motion controls work well when they're either used sparingly or when they're paired with an on-screen action that compliments the motion you're making. Super Paper Mario had you shake the Wiimote to charge power-ups; your physical action didn't match your in-game action, but you weren't asked to do it often. Super Mario Galaxy has you flicking the Wiimote almost constantly, but the horizontal motion of the controller mimics the direction of Mario's spin; it's like you're spinning him with your hand. The Metroid Prime remakes let you flick the Wiimote upward to make Samus's morphball jump; again, mirroring your physical action in the game.

Donkey Kong Country Returns has you constantly shaking the Wiimote up and down, but it doesn't usually feel like you're doing anything but shake the remote. Your motions fit well for one action: Donkey Kong's ground pound. Your shake the Wiimote up and down, and Donkey Kong jumps up and down. There's an intuitive link between the two. But otherwise your actions don't fit: you shake the Wiimote while running to make Donkey Kong roll and, most counter-intuitively, you shake it while ducking to make him blow. It doesn't make sense and so becomes tedious.

I'll have to try out the Wiimote and nunchuck combination to see if it handles differently.

I had a tough time with the control scheme on that one too. I was playing a friend's copy and and ended up moving on after the first world. I still prefer Donkey Kong Country 2 Diddy's Kong Quest, probably my favorite platformer ever. DKC3 was also good, but I borrowed that and couldn't beat it before I had to give it back. DKC was also good, but I didn't enjoy playing as DK, he was a little unwieldy.

The motion controls in DKCR were the one aspect of that game that I didn't particularly enjoy. They felt forced, which seemed uncharacteristic of a Retro game. I like the Wii-mote nunchuck combo best.

Now that I think about it, I used the nunchuk-wiimote controls. Maybe that's why I enjoyed the controls so much more than ClockworkHouse (and Minarchist).

nah, I used those too.

Well I have no idea then.

Dyni wrote:

The motion controls in DKCR were the one aspect of that game that I didn't particularly enjoy. They felt forced, which seemed uncharacteristic of a Retro game. I like the Wii-mote nunchuck combo best.

I'll admit, even the Wii-mote + nunchuk combo lacks the precision I need in a solid platformer when it comes to the waggle/shake-dependent moves.

It's bad enough that it really left me without enthusiasm to play much past world 1. And I otherwise LOVE the game's design from what I've seen.

I, too, used the Wiimote and Nunchuck and found it a bit ridiculous.

From what I've read (and yet can't find the source on) is that Miyamoto has a tendency to walk into a studio, look around, and say "Y'know what would be great? If you could do this" and then walks out and everyone has to implement it.

No hate for the guy, but sometimes you don't need Donkey Kong to blow some flowers man. You just don't.

I wish there was a classic control mode for DKCR, and if there is then I didn't know about it. I'd give it more of the old College try that way.

I'll keep playing, for now. The characters don't control any worse than in, say, Rayman Origins. It's just that in Donkey Kong my characters are made out of waggle instead of laffytaffy.

I also, like I mentioned, actually quite like the use of motion controls for Donkey Kong's ground pound. I think that's a good use of motion controls. The flower blowing and rolling are going to drive me a bit nuts, though. Also of note: it's a weird design decision to have the height of your jump dependent on how long you press the jump button while also having Diddy Kong's double-jump activated by holding down the jump button. It makes for some weird jumps, but I suppose I'll probably get used to it.

If nothing else, I'll keep playing at this point for the art design and level work alone. They're really something special.

After a bit more time with Donkey Kong Country Returns, it finally clicked. I'm at the end of World 3 right now, and I'm really enjoying things.

It happened in World 2. Specifically, the level Tidal Terror, which you can watch here:

I'd been approaching DKCR as being a bit like a New Super Mario Bros. game: the levels are fun to run through, but to really enjoy them, you'll need to look for secrets and hidden collectibles. Donkey Kong isn't really like that, because the collectibles are beside the point. Yes, you get a little scoreboard at the end letting you know whether you spelled out "KONG" and how many puzzle pieces you picked up, but the levels weren't really designed around those things. Rather, the fun in the levels weren't designed around them.

Watch that gameplay video above. It's a little bit challenging, especially as you learn the timing of where and when to hide from the waves. There's some tougher side content in collecting all the letters and puzzle pieces, but they're not much more than knowing to double-jump off of this enemy or pound this particular post. What that level is more than anything is evocative. The darkness, the rain, the waves looming larger and larger in the background. The music, which shows the studio's history with Metroid Prime more than maybe anything else.

Rayman Origins is a better pure platformer, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii has more fun secrets and collectibles, but Donkey Kong Country Returns is the most atmospheric platformer I've played since Limbo. It has a totally different atmosphere, to be sure, but like Limbo it's a game that's first and foremost focused on just getting through an area and seeing what there is to see. (Another comparison might be to Uncharted which is less concerned with tight combat and puzzles than it is in guiding you through a bunch of cool stuff happening.)

And in that way, the scoreboard at the end of each level is detrimental to the experience. I think it's meant to show the player what else they could have done, but it ends up suggesting to the player that they missed out on something, that they had an incomplete experience. But the thrill of a level like "Tidal Terror" isn't in exploring nooks and crannies or getting the letters; it's in hiding from those huge frickin' waves. You're not missing anything by not getting those, despite what the scoreboard suggests.

I've started to think of the collectibles as post-game content that's been inexplicably made available for my first run. And, like most post-game content, it's not quite as polished or interesting as the primary content. And in that way, the first world doesn't really represent the game well, because it foregrounds the collection aspects by giving the player fairly rote platforming with lots of optional activities—like blowing on flowers and pounding on blocks—that rewards the collection side of things. It's not a lot of fun if you're not already invested, and it's a poor way to get people invested.

I completely agree with that post. I quickly realized the collectibles (especially KONG, if I remember right) didn't matter at all and kind of ignored them. If I saw them, I'd try and get them but if I couldn't, oh well.

That was true of the old DKC games on the SNES too. Just playing through with the atmosphere and basic challenge of the stages was a total blast (and DKC2 got downright nasty at times!). I still have my DKC1 soundtrack cd and enjoy listening to it.

The collectibles are really just there to give you an excuse to replay stages later and thoroughly explore them for the secrets.

edit: wow, total mispost

Is the background/foreground interaction a Donkey Kong franchise thing, or is that something they just started with this one?

If you make it to world 8 in DKCR, be prepared for a lot of death, or just walk away. I died over 150 times (by my estimate) and I think world 8 alone took 3 or so nights. But I'm the type of gamer that says, "Well, I've made it this far, I might as well finish what I started." And then I pound my head against a brick wall until it breaks. I get a good deal of satisfaction in knowing I broke a brick wall.

Tidal terror is where Demyx and I gave up on DKCR as a co-op experience. Also, the waggle is unnecessary. (Same goes for waggle to spin in Mario Galaxy)

In retrospect I think that level was a turning point for me as well. I struggled with it during my first attempt at playing the game. I think I might have even put the game down for a while. When I came back, it clicked and I flew through the rest of the game.

Can't speak for co-op though.

I think my Rhythm Heaven Fever journey ends with Air Volley.

Who wants to play badminton across airplaines, anyway?