Endless Space 4x-All

Of course Sins has a single player mode, it's called an open campaign against other empires. Basically the same thing as multiplayer but, you know, with good AI and choices that feel meaningful.

That was very well put Complex.

Veloxi wrote:

Of course Sins has a single player mode, it's called an open campaign against other empires. Basically the same thing as multiplayer but, you know, with good AI and choices that feel meaningful.

Unlike Civilization Sins would actually work with a campaign but just like civilization it absolutly is a single player game without a campaign.

Compared to the other 4x games I've played, I'm really enjoying this one. Maybe I'm crazy, but the great interface and intuitive controls make up for a lot of the 'deep' mechanics that I've just found to be uselessly complex in other ones.

Of course, I'm playing on Newbie right now as I figure out the game and I'm unlikely to ever really try to get into the deep strategy aspect with the computer, but who knows!!

Hoping mulitplayer will be fun, though.

I like how much of the busywork they've cut out of it, but some parts of it (particularly the tech tree) feel a bit obfuscated. It may just take more experience, but I don't have a good feeling for what I'll get for researching something.

Sonicator wrote:

I like how much of the busywork they've cut out of it, but some parts of it (particularly the tech tree) feel a bit obfuscated. It may just take more experience, but I don't have a good feeling for what I'll get for researching something.

You can zoom in on the tech tree (mouse wheel or there's a magnify button, I think) and then hover over the icons for a tooltip of what you'll get when you research something. You can also grab and drag the tree around to see other parts of the tree while zoomed in.

Hey lookit, y'all can get the soundtrack for nothin'

http://gameaudiofactory.bandcamp.com/

I agree with Veloxi that the game does lack soul, but it also has a lot of good points especially if your new to the genre. I feel it's one expansion pack away from greatness.

master0 wrote:

I agree with Veloxi that the game does lack soul, but it also has a lot of good points especially if your new to the genre. I feel it's one expansion pack away from greatness.

Not sure about that. I hope so though.

The weakest thing about the game (to me; it's probably either the combat or the AI for others ) is how undifferentiated the factions are. All of them (save the Amoeba) feel very interchangeable. Even any starting base malus for each faction can be overcome pretty easily via the tech tree. It should be hard to play a warlike Sophont game or a friendly trade-based Empire game, but it's not. So each faction ends up feeling the same as the others.

I think another problem is the tech tree. Everybody gets the same one. The tech tree would be a great way to differentiate factions; the Empire could get more and better weapons and armor, the Horatio could get better dust abilities, etc. But I guess the designers felt like that would be too difficult to balance (and I think they would be right), so all the races pretty much stand in for one another, with some minor differences whose negatives can pretty easily be overcome by the player.

Sadly, this means that each game pretty much plays out like the ones before it, unless you push yourself to change your strategies or make up some house rules to give it some sort of edge.

I still really like the game and do not begrudge the 65 hours Steam tells me I have played it. But I do see the games' flaws quite well. I am not sure if this will ever quite reach up into the rarefied air of the best space 4x's of all time. But, like you said master0, this is a nice way to get into the genre.

I agree with the "lacks character" arguments here. I've noticed the same thing. Tboon points out some of the mechanical signs, but I also see it in the overall "feel" of each faction. I just think to games like CivIV or GalCivII and I can remember having to deal with dicks like Monty or the Yor, for example (or even Yang in Alpha Centauri, man I hated that guy). If you saw those guys anywhere near your starting position, you knew you were going to have to adjust your strat at some point to deal with them. In the games I've played in Endless Space I don't really think about who is next to me and deal with each faction pretty much the same.

I feel like the game would benefit from hiring a writer or two and maybe a sound designer, and have those guys work with the lore they've created so far and expand on it. Give each faction a theme song or sounds and make their dialogues with you unique (the way they address friends/enemies, their manner of speech, etc). Make it so that I pay attention to who my neighbors are--oh, no, the Horatio, I hate the way they always address me as "Jucode" (a pejorative for the garbage code that is in our DNA), or man, the Pilgrims, they're always annoyed when I go to war with someone and then jump on me when I don't offer peace. Whatever. Just make the factions more interesting. Cause I think they're cool now, a great foundation to build upon, but they could be so so so much cooler.

That's the thing, one expansion purely focusing on combat would fix a lot of the issues. Say make all the races have truly distinct ships and fighting styles. Still seeing how I have heard no word on any expansion period, the game remains mediocre for now.

tboon wrote:
Sonicator wrote:

I like how much of the busywork they've cut out of it, but some parts of it (particularly the tech tree) feel a bit obfuscated. It may just take more experience, but I don't have a good feeling for what I'll get for researching something.

You can zoom in on the tech tree (mouse wheel or there's a magnify button, I think) and then hover over the icons for a tooltip of what you'll get when you research something. You can also grab and drag the tree around to see other parts of the tree while zoomed in.

Ahha, thanks! I'd been getting annoyed because hovering over the main icon just told me I'd unlock "Post-op review" or whatever without saying what that was; didn't realise that you cold hover over the icons next to it to find out. Now I feel like and idiot.

Veloxi wrote:

One shouldn't have to play multiplayer in order to find the fun in a game if single player is an option. This game is simply lacking in soul. I have a lot of patience with space games, and even I get a feeling of ennui just thinking about playing it any further. So. Dull.

So Veloxi, which space empire/strategy games DO have soul, in your opinion? Master of Orion 2 is the only one that comes to mind for me ATM.

tboon wrote:
master0 wrote:

I agree with Veloxi that the game does lack soul, but it also has a lot of good points especially if your new to the genre. I feel it's one expansion pack away from greatness.

Not sure about that. I hope so though.

The weakest thing about the game (to me; it's probably either the combat or the AI for others ) is how undifferentiated the factions are. All of them (save the Amoeba) feel very interchangeable. Even any starting base malus for each faction can be overcome pretty easily via the tech tree. It should be hard to play a warlike Sophont game or a friendly trade-based Empire game, but it's not. So each faction ends up feeling the same as the others.

I think another problem is the tech tree. Everybody gets the same one. The tech tree would be a great way to differentiate factions; the Empire could get more and better weapons and armor, the Horatio could get better dust abilities, etc. But I guess the designers felt like that would be too difficult to balance (and I think they would be right), so all the races pretty much stand in for one another, with some minor differences whose negatives can pretty easily be overcome by the player.

Sadly, this means that each game pretty much plays out like the ones before it, unless you push yourself to change your strategies or make up some house rules to give it some sort of edge.

I still really like the game and do not begrudge the 65 hours Steam tells me I have played it. But I do see the games' flaws quite well. I am not sure if this will ever quite reach up into the rarefied air of the best space 4x's of all time. But, like you said master0, this is a nice way to get into the genre.

Sweet I am beating Jam3 to this. There are a few things to note here.
1) Race differences: They are actually pretty different from each other. The amoeba are the most obvious from beginning of game. Go here (http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/F...) and you will find each race's specific traits that are specific to their race. For instance Cravers are unique in that their planets get a 25% bonus to all resources (FIDS) early to mid game but then they drop to -25% late game forcing them to always get new planets or suffer a huge loss in resources.
2) Technology: Every race has a few race specific technologies (http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/T...). In most cases these replace the original so you might not even notice it. I think most race specific are orange? It has been a while, usually race specific have a large or different effect than the normal one. Yes they could really expand on this and make each race's tech tree more unique, but having them mostly the same does make it easier for players to try different races without getting lost in the trees.
3) Custom Races: The default races are great for beginning players, but you will find quickly that custom races using one of the pre-built races main trait as a base and then building on to that your own style of play and traits will give the best results. Some of the traits can be over powered. The United empire has a trait that anyone can get that allows your heroes to get 2 levels for free when you first buy them. The amoeba's ability to see the entire map on the other hand can only be for that race or custom races based off of them. I highly recommend reading the wiki for the races to see what they do, just a quick 5 mins into the game as a race might not show you everything that race can do.

Btw, the races do to my knowledge all have unique ships. Though I will admit that they are not always completely different. The amoeba and Horatio ships off the top of my head are quite unique. I think the cravers one constantly has what looks like flies or gnats flying around it.

Also there is some backstory hidden here and there that I didnt know about until playing it for a while and having Jam3 tell me some. For a good while I thought Endless space was just a catch name for the expansion of the game with fog of war, not the name of a race.

Pax imperia ? Someone knows about those games? Wow, when I was talking about that game, no one knew that ever existed, and it was even demoed on the warcraft3 expension cd disk?

If it got no soul, I can understand why blizzard dropped it.

Was there more than 2 games?

Manach wrote:

Pax imperia ? Someone knows about those games? Wow, when I was talking about that game, no one knew that ever existed, and it was even demoed on the warcraft3 expension cd disk?

If it got no soul, I can understand why blizzard dropped it.

Was there more than 2 games?

Nope, only the original Apple one (which I've not yet played) and the horrid sequel.

http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/...

And yeah, someone knows about these games. This is me we're talking about.

Budo wrote:
Veloxi wrote:

One shouldn't have to play multiplayer in order to find the fun in a game if single player is an option. This game is simply lacking in soul. I have a lot of patience with space games, and even I get a feeling of ennui just thinking about playing it any further. So. Dull.

So Veloxi, which space empire/strategy games DO have soul, in your opinion? Master of Orion 2 is the only one that comes to mind for me ATM.

Well, what comes to MY mind immediately includes:

Distant Worlds
Imperium Galactica Series
Sins of a Solar Empire Series
Reach for the Stars
Spaceward Ho!
Starships Unlimited
Space Empires 1-4
Ascendancy
Stars!

Games that do not have soul:

Galactic Civilization II
Endless Space
Pax Imperia II (I just recalled I never played the first, don't wanna be unfair now)

Just off the top of my head, at least.

Played several games. The two I played to completion both ended with me losing to peaceful victory conditions (one was economic, the other was ... I can't remember).

There are a couple of niggling issues I've had with the game. First, I shouldn't have to do manual combat to retreat (this was mentioned earlier). Second, I miss the victory graphs of Master of Orion 2. At a glance, they'd tell you who was really pulling away from the pack and let you see how much of the score was production, military, economy, etc. Third, the AI races are such c*cks when it comes to trading tech. They always overvalue their own techs even in trades of tech with equal research value. Without the tech limitation imposed by MoO2 (most races can only research 1 of the 2 or 3 techs at each level), the aliens don't feel the need to swap techs, it seems.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Played several games. The two I played to completion both ended with me losing to peaceful victory conditions (one was economic, the other was ... I can't remember).

There are a couple of niggling issues I've had with the game. First, I shouldn't have to do manual combat to retreat (this was mentioned earlier). Second, I miss the victory graphs of Master of Orion 2. At a glance, they'd tell you who was really pulling away from the pack and let you see how much of the score was production, military, economy, etc. Third, the AI races are such c*cks when it comes to trading tech. They always overvalue their own techs even in trades of tech with equal research value. Without the tech limitation imposed by MoO2 (most races can only research 1 of the 2 or 3 techs at each level), the aliens don't feel the need to swap techs, it seems.

Is it possible that they had more research capability than you did? If they can research 20% faster than you than those two equal value techs aren't equal. It's worth five weeks of work for you and only four for them, for example.

Yonder wrote:

Is it possible that they had more research capability than you did? If they can research 20% faster than you than those two equal value techs aren't equal. It's worth five weeks of work for you and only four for them, for example.

I was playing Sohpons, so if anything I was the one with the research bonus. Would this have had an effect? It was the same with every race I traded with.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Yonder wrote:

Is it possible that they had more research capability than you did? If they can research 20% faster than you than those two equal value techs aren't equal. It's worth five weeks of work for you and only four for them, for example.

I was playing Sohpons, so if anything I was the one with the research bonus. Would this have had an effect? It was the same with every race I traded with.

research importance is odd. The amount of research you are outputting matters but also the specific research. There are certain core research items the AI might value more. Many times they will consider military research more potent. In some cases you could trade a lower level research for a slightly higher level one if the first is military and second not.

Also planets and improvements matter. I play an amoeba off shoot and have many times out researched siphons. Planet selection and improvements can make large differences, not to mention what you research and the build. In that eight tree are some nice flat gains to research. Add that to teraforming your planets to give better research scores and you can go far.

UPDATE
BATTLES
- New pre-battle cards selection system with adapted GUI and report panel [G2G vote]
- AI can use retreat cards now (not allowed to pirates however).
- New weight-balance of battle cards for AI use.
- Added a new option in game options to enable or not the manual battles
Going to try this tonight hopefully!

nvm

So how about that "Adaptive Multi-Agent System," eh?

Spoiler:

I was actually pretty disappointed in the AI when I took my first pass as this one, so thoughts on how it's doing with the new expansion would be much appreciated.

Gunner wrote:

So how about that "Adaptive Multi-Agent System," eh?

Spoiler:

I was actually pretty disappointed in the AI when I took my first pass as this one, so thoughts on how it's doing with the new expansion would be much appreciated.

I hope this helps:

http://www.spacegamejunkie.com/previ...

Spoiler:

The AI might actually be worse.

I just started playing this and noticed that the last post in there was over a year ago. Any tips for a noob? Boon, I'm looking at you.

aandnota wrote:

Any tips for a noob?

Play something else.

Complex wrote:
aandnota wrote:

I just started playing this and noticed that the last post in there was over a year ago. Any tips for a noob? Boon, I'm looking at you.

Personally I recommend Amoeba as a starting race. It gives you access to the entire map from the beginning (and later the more traditional races will make you discover the map and explore). Starting out with the map visible allows you to plan your expansions and planets you want to take (ie looking for the resource planets you want and expanding that direction).
An early tip would be population management,if you have a planet that has alot of food production, it will start to max out its population cap relatively quickly, you can use this to move the population from it to the slower growing planets. Like an ocean planet the Amoeba's start with will grow its population faster than the other planets in your starting system. You can colonize these planets and move the population when it reaches the cap to help your smaller planets grow faster.
Another tip is to not colonize every planet you come across. Any planet that isn't a starting planet (like ocean and jungle) will carry a negative to approval (should show if you hover over it). Starting ones like tundra planets are -10 I think to approval, and they get more and more negative. Some planets might come with special buffs that improve it, or special debuffs that make it even lower. The debuffs can be removed with alot of research in the bottom tree (on the right side i think, has a scissors icon). Keeping a happy empire is one of the main things to concentrate one, gives more output and more taxes.

Good, constructive advice! Thanks for your post.

aandnota wrote:

I just started playing this and noticed that the last post in there was over a year ago. Any tips for a noob? Boon, I'm looking at you.

Personally I recommend Amoeba as a starting race. It gives you access to the entire map from the beginning (and later the more traditional races will make you discover the map and explore). Starting out with the map visible allows you to plan your expansions and planets you want to take (ie looking for the resource planets you want and expanding that direction).

An early tip would be population management, if you have a planet that has alot of food production, it will start to max out its population cap relatively quickly, you can use this to move the population from it to the slower growing planets. Like an ocean planet the Amoeba's start with will grow its population faster than the other planets in your starting system. You can colonize these planets and move the population when it reaches the cap to help your smaller planets grow faster.

Another tip is to not colonize every planet you come across. Any planet that isn't a starting planet (like ocean and jungle) will carry a negative to approval (should show if you hover over it). Starting ones like tundra planets are -10 I think to approval, and they get more and more negative. Some planets might come with special buffs that improve it, or special debuffs that make it even lower. The debuffs can be removed with alot of research in the bottom tree (on the right side i think, has a scissors icon). Keeping a happy empire is on of the main things to concentrate one, gives more output and more taxes.

Veloxi wrote:
aandnota wrote:

Any tips for a noob?

Play something else.

LOL so angry.

Yeah, the game has went through ups and downs. At least now you can do the battles without having to do the long animations. Use to be you either did the long animations and chose your battle plans in that, or did auto and hope the AI didn't choose stupid commands.