Palestine Goes For The Full Monty

I'd love to an accurate poll of: What people think about Israel/Palestine? Are they even aware? etc but of people in certain pockets of the world. Not our North American view.

For me it seems like such a over reported situation because of the people involved.

I'm aware because the Canadian media and over spill from the American media makes me aware.

In the grand scheme of things though were talking about a regional situation that doesn't really even involve that many people. Also its pretty doubtful that it would kick off some kind of world war.

I wonder because multiple times while traveling I have met Israelis or been in contact with them. Them explaining the situation to someone with 0 awareness of the situation can be pretty indicative.

If the person wants to try to understand they get completely confused trying to understand it.

If they don't want to understand they pretty much just have a, where? who? so what? attitude as if its just some other geopolitical situation of many they could give a f*ck about.

maverickz wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

But Jews don't believe in Jesus?

I believe what Paleocon is referring to is the biblical idea that the coming of Jesus and the Rapture is accompanied by the destruction of Israel. I'm not a biblical scholar so the details are murky to me.

In addition, before the rapture can happen the Temple on the Mount must be restored, meaning the existing Muslim Holy Site the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed and/or moved first, meaning that the Jews in the area have to have near-total superiority over the uppity Muslims.

jowner wrote:

I'd love to an accurate poll of: What people think about Israel/Palestine? Are they even aware? etc but of people in certain pockets of the world. Not our North American view.

Well, the more extremist religious conservatives in my life (who are sadly fairly numerous) look upon the Palestinians as roughly equivalent to abortion doctors, atheists, and rapists, so... yeah.

Yonder wrote:
maverickz wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

But Jews don't believe in Jesus?

I believe what Paleocon is referring to is the biblical idea that the coming of Jesus and the Rapture is accompanied by the destruction of Israel. I'm not a biblical scholar so the details are murky to me.

In addition, before the rapture can happen the Temple on the Mount must be restored, meaning the existing Muslim Holy Site the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed and/or moved first, meaning that the Jews in the area have to have near-total superiority over the uppity Muslims.

You know what's in the dome right?

Is this guy an Evangelist Christian ?

Niseg wrote:

Is this guy an Evangelist Christian ?

No, if a martian came to earth he wouldn't think the Israel conflict was the biggest problem on earth. He would think it was the same as all the other situations going on.

Thats my point above. Its the biggest problem because the affiliated media tell us it is. For everyone living outside this medias umbrella not so much.

maverickz wrote:
Yonder wrote:
maverickz wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

But Jews don't believe in Jesus?

I believe what Paleocon is referring to is the biblical idea that the coming of Jesus and the Rapture is accompanied by the destruction of Israel. I'm not a biblical scholar so the details are murky to me.

In addition, before the rapture can happen the Temple on the Mount must be restored, meaning the existing Muslim Holy Site the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed and/or moved first, meaning that the Jews in the area have to have near-total superiority over the uppity Muslims.

You know what's in the dome right?

I assume you are referring to the Foundation Stone? That's not the temple, just a piece of it.

Considering that non-Muslims are not allowed to pray at that location, and Hebrew writing isn't allowed there it's hard to envision that piece of rubble as.being a "restored temple".

Yonder wrote:

piece of rubble

There exist many less tangible but no less powerful religious symbols.

maverickz wrote:
Yonder wrote:

piece of rubble

There exist many less tangible but no less powerful religious symbols.

That's not the point, the point is that many evangelical believe Revelations requires the restoration of the Jewish Temple, and the Jewish Temple is unrestored.

Yonder wrote:
maverickz wrote:
Yonder wrote:

piece of rubble

There exist many less tangible but no less powerful religious symbols.

That's not the point, the point is that many evangelical believe Revelations requires the restoration of the Jewish Temple, and the Jewish Temple is unrestored.

I see, that makes sense. I misunderstood, thanks for clarifying.

Edit: oops, I came to post the stuff Yonder posted.

The common "doctrine" in Judaism is that Jews are not allowed on the temple mount until the Massiah comes . There are a bunch of people that are already working on building the 3rd temple. There are also Jews that go the the temple mount to pray (some say it's a provocation - I didn't look into it.) The wailing wall is one of the walls of the temple and the Masque is on the other side.Sometimes Muslims who pray at the masque throw rocks over the wall after prayer. For this reason police sometimes restrict entry to citizen/permanent residents over the age of 40 or 45 .

I'm not sure why some Christians like "the chosen people" that much . I'm not that well versed in Christianity. I know some like us and some hate us (the "killing Jesus" business or something like that) .

Niseg wrote:

I'm not sure why some Christians like "the chosen people" that much . I'm not that well versed in Christianity. I know some like us and some hate us (the "killing Jesus" business or something like that) .

I don't know all of the reasons, but here are a couple common ones: Christianity grew out of Judaism (Christians being Jewish people living under the New Covenant), and Jesus was Jewish.

Edit: Just want to acknowledge that both of those would also be "fightin' words" for some Christians even though they're technically true.

From afar it certainly seems that so long as we divergant beliefs about the location this issue willmust continue and with shifting demographics and increasing technological abilities may be bound to escalate.

I'm curious what the believer response of either side is to the thought experiments on the concept of 'holy land' presented by this section of Scott Adam's God's Debris.

Niseg wrote:

I'm not sure why some Christians like "the chosen people" that much . I'm not that well versed in Christianity.

Some Christians can't get past the idea that Revelations was written about the Romans and Nero in particular, and so they believe that any end of the world scenario will center on Jerusalem. They believe that the Temple must be rebuilt in Jerusalem on it's original site before Jesus can return, so for that they need a powerful Jewish state, and so they back Israel fanatically. Not because they want Jews to be safe and thrive, but because they want them to set in motion the end of the world with a Satan-imprisoning battle on a tell about 25 miles outside of Megiddo. Then we get 1000 years of crazy, then God rains fire from the heavens on the people who remain and throws the bad ones into eternal fire in Gehenna (which was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem, but never mind that...).

Revelations is maybe the craziest part of Christian eschatology (the study of the end of the world, essentially). It's amazing to me that it's even included in the current day Bible.

Don't forget the fever dreams from the book of Daniel! We're down to the feet-of-iron-and-clay part now, and the f*cked-up lions.

Robear wrote:
Niseg wrote:

I'm not sure why some Christians like "the chosen people" that much . I'm not that well versed in Christianity.

Some Christians can't get past the idea that Revelations was written about the Romans and Nero in particular, and so they believe that any end of the world scenario will center on Jerusalem. They believe that the Temple must be rebuilt in Jerusalem on it's original site before Jesus can return, so for that they need a powerful Jewish state, and so they back Israel fanatically. Not because they want Jews to be safe and thrive, but because they want them to set in motion the end of the world with a Satan-imprisoning battle on a tell about 25 miles outside of Megiddo. Then we get 1000 years of crazy, then God rains fire from the heavens on the people who remain and throws the bad ones into eternal fire in Gehenna (which was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem, but never mind that...).

Revelations is maybe the craziest part of Christian eschatology (the study of the end of the world, essentially). It's amazing to me that it's even included in the current day Bible.

I appreciate your stepping in to write about a large chunk of craziness, Robear. It provides a broader representation without my having to think about stuff I looked at and ditched a long time ago.

My father was a Methodist minister, and he flat-out refused to use Revelations in his ministry.

*shudder* Trying to imagine rotationally symmetrical seven-sided lambs just freaks me the heck out.

Robear wrote:

throws the bad ones into eternal fire in Gehenna (which was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem, but never mind that...).

It's really amusing when historical literary references get lost among the years. Reading an annotated Inferno is like reading a really boring history book rather than an interesting trip to hell.

Niseg wrote:

Is this guy an Evangelist Christian ?

No, he's a right-wing extremist who espouses the same political rhetoric as evangelical Christians in spite of his Jewish faith.

This, of course, explains his conspiracy-theory-laden propaganda video here that you linked. Nice try, though.

Hypatian wrote:

*shudder* Trying to imagine rotationally symmetrical seven-sided lambs just freaks me the heck out.

About which axis is it symmetrical?

I hear good things about radial symmetry!
IMAGE(http://www.firelion.org/raven/art/ElderThing.jpg)

Tekeli-li!

Hawt.

Images of the false prophets! There is but one true agent of annihilation and salvation! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Images of the false prophets! There is but one true agent of annihilation and salvation! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

Hmm. Collective madness is one explanation, but I think the entire region is more symptomatic of the influence of Azathoth (the Blind Idiot God).

Paleocon wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Images of the false prophets! There is but one true agent of annihilation and salvation! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

Hmm. Collective madness is one explanation, but I think the entire region is more symptomatic of the influence of Azathoth (the Blind Idiot God).

More like Nyarlathotep (the Crawling Chaos)

Funny you mention that. A relative told me that a few weeks ago there was a showing of The King in Yellow in Jerusalem.