Young Male with Low Testosterone

Testosterone therapy (gels, injections) comes with a list of side effect warnings. Prostate enlargement, increased risk of prostate cancer, blood clotting, etc. Not sure how common these are. Any input is appreciated.

Heretk wrote:

Testosterone therapy (gels, injections) comes with a list of side effect warnings. Prostate enlargement, increased risk of prostate cancer, blood clotting, etc. Not sure how common these are. Any input is appreciated.

You're correct, BUT living with low test and not treating it also has a whole boat load of bad medical side effects including higher risk for cardiovascular disease and diabetes.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ActiveA...

Gumbie wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

So I'm being put on depo-testosterone. How is that related to HCG? Is it better, worse? I'm supposed to have my first shot today and I'm unclear if that's the right way to go.

It's completely different than HCG but I think your problem with the gel is your skin wasn't absorbing it so I think you'll see some good results with the injections. Here's what I know regarding TRT and HCG.

There are two forms of Hypogonadism that are the cause of low test. The first thing a good doctor will do is diagnose which form you have. Most of the time this is done with an MRI of the brain to see any abnormalities of the pituitary gland and also looking at other thyroid levels.

The way a healthy male should function is with their pituitary gland sending LH to their testes and then the testes producing testosterone. Hypogonadism is when this process doesn't work...

1. Primary Hypogonadism

This form is basically where your brain (pituitary gland) sends LH (Luteinizing hormone) to your testes but for whatever reason (injuries, genetics, etc.) your testes do not use the LH to produce test and healthy sperm. If you're trying to have kids this is the form you don't want to have because basically your testes won't work correctly and produce test so since your testes won't make it on it's own you have to basically put it there yourself through exogenous testosterone (Androgel, depo injections). The only problem with this is while most people have great results, once your body sees an external source of testosterone coming it, it will shut down whatever natural production your body was still making. While it's not really a big deal testosterone wise...when your testes shut down so does sperm production.

2. Secondary Hypogonadism

This is the opposite of primary. Your testes are healthy and ready to produce testosterone, but your brain (pituitary gland) isn't sending LH (Luteinizing hormone). This is caused a lot of times by head injuries (concussions) or genetics. With this form of hypogonadism you can treat it with exogenous testosterone (androgel, depo shots) and receive the same results of someone with primary, but with the cost of your fertility. The good thing about secondary is awhile back doctors figured out that HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin), which is produced by pregnant women, can help men. The found out if you inject men with HCG their bodies take it and convert it to LH which then goes to your testes who are waiting for it. This way your basically kickstarting your own body's natural production instead of introducing external test via a gel or shot. Thus you fertility is saved. The bad part is this is a relatively new treatment for this and people aren't really sure about long term side effects. Also HCG can give huge boosts to test (like I had) but that can be bad because when the body produces too much test it takes the excess and turns it into estrogen which introduces a whole new set of problems. In my case even though I got great results my estrogen sky rocketed and now we are lowering my dose to try and find a sweet spot where my test is up but estrogen is in check.

Hope this helped.

Reposting for the new page in case anyone who wanted to know missed it.

Got my first shot today. Wasn't so bad. I think I could do this myself. I walked out of the doctor's office feeling "better" already. Weird.

DSGamer wrote:

Got my first shot today. Wasn't so bad. I think I could do this myself. I walked out of the doctor's office feeling "better" already. Weird.

High five! I don't know what the uptake time is on testosterone, but I can get a cortisone hit and be a whole different person 30 minutes later. Hopefully the shots will work out for you.

Second shot today. Both times I've felt shoulder pain after the shot. The shot is being administered in my hip, so it doesn't have anything to do with the site of the shot. Has anyone else experienced this?

Well, the shoulder pain thing is a regular occurrence now. Every single time I've gotten the shot I've had shoulder pain in my left, right or both shoulders. I'm not sure what this is. Is it muscle spasms? Is it a pinched nerve? Is something going wrong with my joints? I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully they can sort out what to do here. So far this cure is worse than the disease.

DSGamer wrote:

Well, the shoulder pain thing is a regular occurrence now. Every single time I've gotten the shot I've had shoulder pain in my left, right or both shoulders. I'm not sure what this is. Is it muscle spasms? Is it a pinched nerve? Is something going wrong with my joints? I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully they can sort out what to do here. So far this cure is worse than the disease.

I experienced lower back pain the first 3-4 weeks my test went up. After the 4th week it stopped hurting. I have no idea if this is related to your shoulder or not. Did you get in with the good reviews endo? Hopefully the new Dr will get you on the right track.

As far as my personal progress goes...

After my test went out the roof in November (1100+) I initially felt great. A few weeks later I started to slowly go downhill until I felt worse than I did before starting the therapy. I suspected my estradiol was high and confirmed it when my lab results came back with a level of 92. For reference anything above 27 is considered high. The Dr. lowered my dosage and I do feel somewhat better. I will have the new estradiol levels any day now to see if they went down any.

#1 - I did call that recommended doctor. He's booked way way out. But he just brought someone onboard to his clinic. I had a choice of seeing who my wife is seeing for thyroid (who isn't doing much for her), seeing a completely different doctor or seeing this new doctor brought on to that recommended doctor's practice. Ultimately I decided on the last one. Partly because I assume that he'd only work with the best and partly because I assume I can get access to him even if I see her first. That appointment was also able to get much much earlier: tomorrow.

#2 - That's interesting about the low back pain. Mine's been concentrated in my neck and shoulders. It's also been roughly 4 weeks. I wish there was more information out there on this so I knew if this was something that was common and would pass.

DSGamer wrote:

Well, the shoulder pain thing is a regular occurrence now. Every single time I've gotten the shot I've had shoulder pain in my left, right or both shoulders. I'm not sure what this is. Is it muscle spasms? Is it a pinched nerve? Is something going wrong with my joints? I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully they can sort out what to do here. So far this cure is worse than the disease.

How did it go?

Gumbie wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Well, the shoulder pain thing is a regular occurrence now. Every single time I've gotten the shot I've had shoulder pain in my left, right or both shoulders. I'm not sure what this is. Is it muscle spasms? Is it a pinched nerve? Is something going wrong with my joints? I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully they can sort out what to do here. So far this cure is worse than the disease.

How did it go?

Thanks for asking. I was about to post, actually. Her opinion was that checking the numbers while being treated wasn't terribly accurate or useful and that their biggest concern was blood viscosity to make sure I wasn't at too high of a dose. So she recommended I go back to the gel since that was working "ok" and wasn't causing the pain. I did that today and everything is fine. They're doing a workup on root causes (blood tests, etc. to see if I need to get an MRI of my pituitary) and we're proceeding from there.

DSGamer wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Well, the shoulder pain thing is a regular occurrence now. Every single time I've gotten the shot I've had shoulder pain in my left, right or both shoulders. I'm not sure what this is. Is it muscle spasms? Is it a pinched nerve? Is something going wrong with my joints? I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. Hopefully they can sort out what to do here. So far this cure is worse than the disease.

How did it go?

Thanks for asking. I was about to post, actually. Her opinion was that checking the numbers while being treated wasn't terribly accurate or useful and that their biggest concern was blood viscosity to make sure I wasn't at too high of a dose. So she recommended I go back to the gel since that was working "ok" and wasn't causing the pain. I did that today and everything is fine. They're doing a workup on root causes (blood tests, etc. to see if I need to get an MRI of my pituitary) and we're proceeding from there.

That's great. Sounds like you got a good endo. Hopefully the find the root of the problem so they can treat you better.

Well, 2 days off the shot and I feel decidedly worse. Much much more tired. My mind is less clear. And other things are going wrong. The gel doesn't cut it. I'll probably get the shot again soon and maybe see about switching the dose or going to a different kind of shot after that.

Currently on 750ml of HCG injections twice a week. Feeling good I think my estrogen is in check and my test is up, I'll know in a few weeks when I get my latest blood work. Doctor found out my thyroid levels were borderline low, not enough to raise in any red flags for most doctors but he treats thyroid stuff pretty aggressively so he diagnosed me with hypothyroidism and put me on a daily medication. I've been on it for 3 weeks now and I can honestly say I feel a lot better. I'm in a pretty good place mentally and I'm not so tired all the damn time.

DSGamer haven't heard from you in awhile how is everything going?

Gumbie wrote:

DSGamer haven't heard from you in awhile how is everything going?

I mentioned your medication to my doctor and he considers it a fad. Not sure what to do with that. Things are going okay for me. Still taking weekly shots of 100mg. It's effective, but not as effective as I'd like it to be. But I'm sleeping better, my head is more clear and I'm less tired. Otherwise I don't feel much different. My numbers are better, but still only around 612. 146 free. That's much better than earlier, but it doesn't feel much different. PM coming your way as well.

So I have been getting treatment again for nearly three months now and it has really transformed my life. I feel like a male should. I have strength and energy I never had before. The things that came so easily to other men my age now come easily to me. I have put on close to 30 lbs with most of it being muscle. Right now I am doing 200 mg injections weekly with 2.5 mg of anastrazole the day after once a week.

If I lost this again, I'd commit suicide. No doubt about it. Life wouldn't be worth living.

Are the side effects from the injections the same as using a gel?

No clue.

I get pimples on my back and I had heightened estradiol levels until I started the aromatase inhibitor. Other then that, no real side effect. Oh, except for a sore injection site. It is cool, though. Lets me know my ass is still there.

Hey Zane, that's great to hear. You might want to consider nightly washes of the back using isopropyl alcohol on a large cotton pad. This will help both dissolve the sebum cocktail that clogs the pores, as well as killing the bacteria that lead to inflammation and whiteheads.

I see, sir. I'll look into it. Thanks.

RolandofGilead wrote:

Are the side effects from the injections the same as using a gel?

I think injections are supposed to be a little worse on the side effects according to my Dr. I've not hear of aromatase inhibitors being needed as much with the transdermals for instance.

For those of you doing self-injections, make certain you get a needle that is appropriate for your size. If you are not 250+ lbs, get a needle that is an inch long. And make certain that you inject in the best spot possible with the most muscle. If you are like me and have a 1.5 inch needle and inject slightly off to a less muscular area and pierce a nerve, you'll severely regret doing it. The injection itself will be extremely uncomfortable. And then the crippling pain and muscle weakness that ensues over the next few days will serve as an even greater reminder to do it right.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

For those of you doing self-injections, make certain you get a needle that is appropriate for your size. If you are not 250+ lbs, get a needle that is an inch long. And make certain that you inject in the best spot possible with the most muscle. If you are like me and have a 1.5 inch needle and inject slightly off to a less muscular area and pierce a nerve, you'll severely regret doing it. The injection itself will be extremely uncomfortable. And then the crippling pain and muscle weakness that ensues over the next few days will serve as an even greater reminder to do it right.

Thank god all my injections are sub-q. I am going to intramuscular T shots later and am dreading it.

Gumbie wrote:

Thank god all my injections are sub-q. I am going to intramuscular T shots later and am dreading it.

Shouldn't be a problem if you follow those guidelines. But be sure you do. Absolutely.

You'll know if you do because the injection will from being barely noticeable as it penetrates and slides into your muscle to causing an extremely odd, uncomfortable sensation across your leg, particularly at the injection site. It is a mixture of pain and some other feeling unlike anything else.

So I have determined that I prefer having low testosterone to high testosterone. My mood becomes so foul and angry when my testosterone levels soar that I turn into a very nasty person. All the things that make me angry in life become greatly magnified. I'm giving up on injections even if it means having permanently low testosterone.

Is there a middle ground?

Perhaps, but I think I prefer low testosterone ZaneRockfist. This was mainly a head's up to people that taking testosterone and might have similar experiences.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

So I have determined that I prefer having low testosterone to high testosterone. My mood becomes so foul and angry when my testosterone levels soar that I turn into a very nasty person. All the things that make me angry in life become greatly magnified. I'm giving up on injections even if it means having permanently low testosterone.

Were you monitoring your estradiol levels?

So I've been good on the mood end. And I feel like my concentration is better. But otherwise I don't feel like it's had many physiological benefits outside of the obvious ones. No weight loss, no increase in muscle mass. I don't have significantly more energy.

Gumbie wrote:
ZaneRockfist wrote:

So I have determined that I prefer having low testosterone to high testosterone. My mood becomes so foul and angry when my testosterone levels soar that I turn into a very nasty person. All the things that make me angry in life become greatly magnified. I'm giving up on injections even if it means having permanently low testosterone.

Were you monitoring your estradiol levels?

Not monitoring; however, I take anastrazole to counter it. Even so, I am done with taking testosterone. Outside of the anger and depression issues which it magnifies, I really didn't ever feel any difference.