This is Not the Boogle Memorial Dating Advice/Tips Thread, No

hbi2k wrote:

Have you ever read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover? It goes into those same ideas in much more detail. I'd call it a must-read for any guy who ever found himself falling into the "if I do enough nice things for her, surely she'll become horny with gratitude!" trap.

Sounds like I should. I mean, I gave time to a piece of work like The Game, I can give time to a book like that.

I believe I emphasized it before, and someone earlier mentioned it, but the whole confidence is true of both males and females. Men look for confidence in other men, and women look for confidence even in platonic men. All people get sick of the person that constantly feels down and depressed and belittles themselves. A confident person commands attention, respect and even loyalty. A good leader will certainly be confident.

But confidence can often be confused with conceit. In fact, I feel like The Social Network portrays it perfectly in Justin Timberlake's character. The man is suave and charismatic, and all because he speaks as if every word coming from his mouth is valuable. In addition, he manages to also seem considerate of others even though what he's really feeding off is their attention. Andrew Garfield wasn't fooled, but Zuckerburg and Crazy Asian Girlfriend were.

I know referencing a movie isn't the same as reality, but a lot of this stuff has a basis in reality. Turns out Justin Timberlake's character was an asshole, but it didn't become apparent until later down the line to a number of the characters.

This is how it often is. We may become friends with people we think are awesome, but over time we suddenly realize they're an asshole. Why should we fault women for making the same mistake with people they end up developing feelings for? Or how about we take that axiom of "don't stick it in the crazy" and ponder where it comes from.

Grubber788 wrote:
LarryC wrote:

I've never thought of Leonard as a nice guy. He's kind of an asshole. They all are.

Kuthrapali (sp?) seems like he's ok. Just insecure. And pulled between cultures.

I like Raj the most, truth told. That and the guy who runs the comic book store. In truth, while the show makes me laugh, it also makes me angry. Considering my friends, I'm actually the exception to the rule of nerds, which is most of them are just regular fellows that happen to have nerdy interests.

Maybe I'm just good at making functional friends.

TBBT is still nerdface, but we enjoy it anyway.

ccesarano wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

Have you ever read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover? It goes into those same ideas in much more detail. I'd call it a must-read for any guy who ever found himself falling into the "if I do enough nice things for her, surely she'll become horny with gratitude!" trap.

Sounds like I should. I mean, I gave time to a piece of work like The Game, I can give time to a book like that.

It's more of a general self-help book than one about dating or relationship advice specifically, and it sounds like you've pretty well learned most of the lessons it has to teach through observation and introspection, but it might be interesting to read some ideas that you obviously already agree with codified and elaborated upon. I know it really helped explain some of my own past behaviors to me.

Ah, I wasn't aware it was a self-help book. Though technically so is The Game, which seems really...wrong to me.

I can't tell if I'm just more aware of what I want or my tastes are narrowing as I get older. Maybe both?

I have a friend and we'd take turns being infatuated or disinterested in each other. Although she usually had the upper hand, since my disinterest was a product of her flaking on/ignoring me. Recently she had kind of a drug-induced spirit journey, and I don't understand half of what she talks about anymore.

I think this is the first time my declining interest is substance based. I don't judge her, she's happy, and I'm happy that she's happy, I just can't relate.

I think that as you get older you do come to know your own mind and desires more. Those exciting people we get infatuated with begin to appear childish and prone to creating their own drama.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

I think that as you get older you do come to know your own mind and desires more. Those exciting people we get infatuated with begin to appear childish and prone to creating their own drama.

Or even simply that people grow up and go separate ways. From 2nd to 7th grade my best friend was also my only friend. Then we moved, and while we kept in touch during high school we were already heading separate directions. Barely communicated during College, and whenever I see him it's good times but it also feels a bit awkward. We're very different people with very different views of the world.

I used to feel bad about it, but I've grown to accept it now too. We'll always have those childhood memories of making our own clay Pac-Man playsets (in the style of Mighty Max), watching Godzilla movies, his introducing me to Aliens and a few other R-Rated flicks, and hours spent playing games like Toejam & Earl. But as we became adults our paths split, and now we're just different people.

That's life.

So this woman went on a different path than you, and now you have experienced enough different things to create different world views and thus there is a natural rift. I say there's no problem with that.

I'm not surprised or traumatized that I've grown apart from people, it's just a process that seems to have multiplied and accelerated in recent years.

Okay so I was gonna post in the Frarkin Froghohs thread but I decided this thread might be better. Actually it went from considerations of a geek confession to a frarkin frogohs to here.

Because f*ck all that advice about how I should be when it comes to varied interests. Fuuuuuuck them. f*ck it! I like stuff. I like things. I like things that get me to do stuff. But f*ck the idea that having a passion for video games and movies and all that other dumb bullsh*t I've been told I should be ashamed of is bad to have. I mean I know folks here didn't say that, folks here just advise having a variety of different interests, but you know what? I like bowling. I like roller blading. I like hockey.

But I don't love them. I will never LOVE them. I will never be able to carry an entire f*cking conversation on them because they are things I merely like to do.

But I f*cking love video games. I f*cking love the design of video games. I mean do you realize just how f*cking genius the original Super Mario Bros. is? Did you ever sit down and realize that a handful of programmers in the 80's developed a physics engine on a God damned NES? Momentum is what Mario is all about, and this is why it continues to be so awesome. Mario gains momentum, and how far he jumps and how slippery he feels is based on that momentum. This is what opens up the later levels to such tricky jumps that you can't get in most other platformers. No one made a physics engine like Nintendo did, and it was so spot on that it has barely needed to be adjusted in over twenty f*cking years. This is nothing to say of sound cues or slowly introducing new elements before turning them into a combination of challenges.

So shove it up your ass PC gaming master race. Console game design is inherited from usability and elegance. PC games are for f*ckers that love spreadsheets and databases, and I'll tell you what Oracle is one of the worst classes I took in College.

Cough. Ahem. Tangent.

But there you go. I f*cking love video games. They are fascinating. They are entertainment, and yet usability matters. It's such a weird world where user interface is just as important as emotional engagement. It's so unique!

But for some reason I feel like I should be ashamed of this, that I must hide this from a woman in order to be loved. It doesn't matter that I know chicks that love the video games (though all of them are taken, naturally). i've been told by everyone that women don't want to talk about video games so I shouldn't do that. I gotta have a variety of interests! I gotta be multi-dimensional! I have to love me!

Well f*ck all that, because all of that crap has been preventing me from liking myself. That and emotional baggage and daddy issues.

But I love video games. I love discussing and analyzing video games. So I'm not going to worry about hiding myself so that a girl can hopefully find me attractive. Bullsh*t. A woman needs to be good enough for me, dammit. And that means a woman that is okay with the fact that I loooooooove video games.

f*cking love 'em.

And that is my geek confession...that relates to dating...and stuff.

Now to actually work on the whole loving myself part and getting over two decades plus of father issues and self loathing.

Shalalm baskur.

Self-loathing? Father issues? Yeah. I seriously can't recommend No More Mr. Nice Guy to you enough.

Amusingly enough considering our talk about The Big Bang Theory, I literally saw an online dating profile the other day in which the woman referenced that show and said she wanted to meet her Leonard. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Update on my personal sitch: I'm just starting to dip my toes back into the dating pool. Got two first dates scheduled within the next week. I'm not looking for much at this stage, just to meet some new people and get back into the habit of dating.

As much as I was ever in the habit, that is. The last time I was in the dating market I kinda sucked at it. Actually, having two dates in a week means I'm already doing better than last time, so that's something.

I'd like to drop in and first tell ccesarano that he's dumb for not liking PC games.

Secondly, I've been single for over six months now and I'm loving it. I haven't been single this long since 2007. It helps that I work 60 hours a week so finding time for dating amid my work, working out and sleep is difficult, but I don't sit up at night begrudging fate for there not being a lady in my life.

Also, my ex-girlfriend and I are back to having a relatively normal friend relationship again. I'm happy about that because my first two girlfriends kind of suck.

ccesarano:

I think it has to do with what you think a conversation is. You see, when you're looking to unload, then the conversation is about you and your interests. Most people want to do that - talk about themselves and their interests, you see. The problem is that this only works well when those two people have a strong interest in common.

In order to facilitate easy meets and interesting conversations (at least to one party), you have to be able to hold your end of a conversation on a variety of topics. You don't need to love it, or to know it in depth. In fact, it's probably better if you're not a master of the topic. But you need to show that you know enough about it so that the other person doesn't feel like they're talking to a wall. In this sense, your part in the conversation is not unloading, but receiving.

There's nothing wrong with talking about video games, but have you ever had a person talk your ear off about a topic you found mind-numbingly boring? (Like, say, the history and significance of WW2 motorcyle engines, maybe?) It's fairly awful. When you talk your mouth off about anything (including video games) to a person who doesn't really find them as fascinating, you're being That Guy.

It's not bad to love games, and it's human to want to talk about them. But if all you want to do is talk about video games, you're going to find it difficult to mingle socially with a wide variety of people; let alone construct a mutually enjoyable conversation alone with just one person, whose interests you don't really know.

Also, LarryC is right. It's one of my biggest problems with Geekdom as a whole. Being a good conversationalist is a lost art in many ways, particularly among those with very specific and passionate interests. The trick, I think, is to force yourself to be interested in topics outside of what you love. I say "force" because sometimes it can be difficult to generate interest in something that on the surface appears boring to some people, like sports, business news, politics or pop music. Eventually though, you will find depth in the topic you are trying to become better acquainted with. The bonus is that you may find those other sources of interest to shine light on your primary passion: video games.

Interestingly, this bit of dating advice is very similar to advice I give my students on the weekends about SATs. If you have a broad set of interests, you will perform better on the critical reading section of the SATs because you will be more engaged with the material. Conversations are similar.

ccesarano wrote:

So shove it up your ass PC gaming master race. Console game design is inherited from usability and elegance. PC games are for f*ckers that love spreadsheets and databases...

I'll avoid explaining how awesome PC gaming both today and in the past has been from a design standpoint, because that's not the point of your post.

Then I tried writing a proper response here, but it all fell flat next to LarryC's beautiful explanation.

So I'll just give this short example:
I once went on a date with a girl who only wanted to talk about kayaking and her rabbits. At the time, I only wanted to talk about games. It was awkward as hell! Now we probably wouldn't have worked out anyways, but maybe I could have had a nice time and learned something new if either of us had knowledge about the other's topic.

As for my own stuff, Ophelia and I are still getting along swimmingly. It's been just over two months, and what started as her saying "I'm busy with school and might not have much time for you" has become seeing each other about 4 days a week and Skyping the other 3. It's stupid how well we're getting along, and we've already discussed moving to Vancouver and living together in about 5 months.

@unntrlaffinity - Did you end up going for dance lessons? How did that go?

While I agree with the points about not dominating the conversation, I think the larger issue for ccesarano is that he feels like he needs to be ashamed of and hide the topic he's extremely passionate about.

I haven't been on any dates with the man, so I can't know if he's making the mistake of dominating the conversation. But, at the same time, if she doesn't have any interest in or willingness to learn about the thing he's super passionate about, they are unlikely to work (now the road has to go both ways, and he has to be willing to learn about her interests).

What I took away from your post was a self-affirmation. You love video games, and you don't want to hide that from women of interest. You don't want to feel ashamed of your passion, and you shouldn't be. Any woman who is going to say, "You're into video games? No, thanks!" Is not worth spending time on. Because video games are an important part of your identity. I think most women would appreciate you having a passion for something rather than being ambivalent about everything.

As long as you have other interests and other topics you're capable of talking about, having your biggest passion be video games is a non-issue. It certainly doesn't help you in any way to pretend that you don't like video games, or that you're passionate in some random thing you only mildly like. That is going to show, and even if it doesn't show on a first date, it will become obvious by the end of the first month of dating that your actual interests are different than what you initially indicated, and then you look like (and are) a jerk.

If you want to be Barney Stinson and are looking to get women to bed, you can cut corners and be someone else. If you're looking for a meaningful relationship, you can't hide who you are. It may mean more rejection, but it will be worth it, in the end.

I'm about 4 months into a new relationship and it's reminded me why I much prefer being in a relationship than being single.

It's just nice to have someone else around. My new gf is just getting used to being in a serious relationship, so thats made things a bit tricky this time around, but we are getting there.

Granted, parts of it are frustrating as I tend to read into things WAAAAY too much, but that tends to be only when I'm generally tired.

There's definitely good and bad about being in a relationship vs single. When I was single, I had all the time I wanted to myself. I had enough options for going out and seeing people that I could fill all my time with it, but if I wanted to spend a week vegging with movies or games, I could and not feel guilty. With a significant other, I have fewer options for consequence-free alone time, but the tradeoff is having someone to do everything with whose company doesn't generally cut into my introvert "social energy reserves."

I still firmly believe that it's really important to be equally comfortable and happy in either situation. If you can't be comfortable and happy in the land of single-hood, you'll be approaching dating from a place of needing to find someone in order to make yourself happy, which just leads to dysfunctional relationships.

Yeah, I stopped dating for a number of reasons, the biggest one of which is because I'm miserable being alone. Which, ironically, means I shouldn't get into a relationship because I'm too emotionally needy as a result. But I don't want to be alone, and can't figure out how to truly be happy with being single.

It's a vicious cycle with no way out that I can see.

A couple of bad relationships will cure you of the desperate need to be with someone.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

A couple of bad relationships will cure you of the desperate need to be with someone. :)

Nah. I've had two long-ish relationships. One went pretty spectacularly bad from rather early on. The other was overall what I'd consider a rather good relationship but ended pretty unhappily.

I suspect that a couple of bad relationships wouldn't cure me of that need for companionship, but they would make me even more bitter and disgruntled.

Chaz wrote:

With a significant other, I have fewer options for consequence-free alone time, but the tradeoff is having someone to do.

FTFY.

kaostheory wrote:

I haven't been on any dates with the man, so I can't know if he's making the mistake of dominating the conversation. But, at the same time, if she doesn't have any interest in or willingness to learn about the thing he's super passionate about, they are unlikely to work (now the road has to go both ways, and he has to be willing to learn about her interests).

Boom, headshot.

While I was being a smacked ass and not doing a good job of getting over my ex-girlfriend, I started to feel irritated, and eventually resentful, that I spent so much time asking her questions about her interests and spending time trying all these new things she loved but I wasn't familiar with. In fact, it is because of her that I'm interested in the Les Miserables film coming out whereas previously I would have written it off because it was a musical. I know that's not a big stretch since musicals aren't too far apart from my love of entertainment in general, but it is one of the biggest take-aways I had from that relationship.

The real issue was I was treating the fact that she put no effort into learning about my passions as if it was a problem that arose through dating. We weren't dating. We had split up. I wasn't over her, and I was doing a bad job of getting over her.

But since then I've tried to make an effort to show that sort of courtesy to everyone I know. It's hard, and a lot of times it just doesn't work. Sometimes my eyes glaze over just as hers might have. That's life. As much as I try to engage with my friend who loves cars and to learn from him, there are moments where my mind wanders and next thing I know I missed half of his story. But I figure this is just part of life, and while most of what he says is lost and forgotten over time, I occasionally manage to grasp bits and pieces.

I think there are three factors that can push someone outside of a comfort zone and into trying to learn about other's thoughts.

1) A genuine curiosity and/or desire. This could be your more adventurous person that is willing to try anything once and has a very, very large comfort zone (assuming they have anything fitting that description), or just a simple moment of "Y'know, I've heard of that but never tried it. Tell me more."

2) A desire to get laid. Pretty self-explanatory, as the desire to get laid could be catalyst to a lot of behaviors.

3) Genuine love where sex is not an issue. I sat down with my niece to watch some mermaid show on Netflix, and while I didn't really care for it, I watched it with her anyway because she loves it. I got to learn about something she likes, and as far as that sort of show goes it's actually of a decent quality. I imagine this is the sort of love that will help keep a couple together most strongly.

You more experienced fellows can go ahead and correct me on any of the above points.

As for what I can talk about, trust me, even though I've come to decide I love how passionate I am for games and am sick of feeling ashamed it is such a big part of me, I'm not going to just discuss video games on a first date. Not unless she really wants to know or really likes video games as well.

My ability to converse really seems to depend on my mood and the sort of person I'm meeting, though. Sometimes I'm just feeling particularly introverted and all I can think to talk about are games because that's my fallback. But other times I'm feeling really social, saying hello to strangers and manage to get into conversations about where I went to school (see: two girls I met while drunk at a delightful little bar in Philly and didn't think to give my number to. I don't think video games were ever mentioned).

And considering some of our conversations in this thread, Hell even on this forum, I think it's perfectly fine to have moments where you don't feel particularly social. That's just life. In the summer I didn't want to play video games a lot, and wanted to focus my energy elsewhere. Right now I don't feel like going out much and am spending more time playing video games. I'm happy either way.

Farscry wrote:

Yeah, I stopped dating for a number of reasons, the biggest one of which is because I'm miserable being alone. Which, ironically, means I shouldn't get into a relationship because I'm too emotionally needy as a result. But I don't want to be alone, and can't figure out how to truly be happy with being single.

It's a vicious cycle with no way out that I can see.

Find ways to occupy your time and find people to do it with.

I know this might sound silly, but when you get right down to it the only time I actually feel "lonely" is when it's late at night, I'm too tired to want to play video games or write or draw, and yet it's too early to go to bed. I don't know how things are for you, but I tend to not even think about the fact that I'm single as long as I'm occupied (though I'm certainly looking when I'm out of the house and seeing attractive women all around).

That's the best advice I can think to give, at least.

hbi2k wrote:
Chaz wrote:

With a significant other, I have fewer options for consequence-free alone time, but the tradeoff is having someone to do.

FTFY.

"Everything" totally includes that. Plus movies and video games.

Farscry:

To be perfectly honest, I don't like being alone either. I've never liked being alone. Having said that, I don't seek companionship purely through the device of a sexual relationship. I like hanging out with the guys well enough that I can get my social needs met through friends and friend networks, or family. The more friends you have, the more likely it is that any single one will be interested in going out for a night if you feel like passing the time with other people.

ccesarano:

Speaking frankly, I think you have a pretty huge issue around games and gaming and that your environment isn't making it any easier to get over it. I feel for your troubles. I have no problems whatsoever telling people about my hobbies, but that's because my environment doesn't make such a huge issue over it. I'm not sure I'd be that comfortable if I get a lot of negative feedback every time I talk about it.

I get where you're coming from as far as your eyes glazing over and such. I have a friend who's really into World War 2, and he often goes on and on about about various battles and units and technology and such during the war. Most of the time, it's kind of like the History Channel, but sometimes he really goes over the edge and I can't help but glaze over. It's not polite, but then again, it's kind of commonplace when you're getting deep into various topics and get away from yourself.

If you're comfortable with it, I don't think it's bad to get into the subject of gaming on a first date but it's important to not go headlong into it unless the girl's a pretty hardcore gamer herself. My wife's not that much of a gamer so I can't really go that deep into it and expect her to retain details, even though we've been married a long time.

I think it's a good idea to have a repertoire of easy and general interest anecdotes in hand for casual conversation just so you're not a total bore even when you're feeling completely introverted and uninterested in talking with anyone. At least it's handy to have enough that you can get to your cave.

If someone can't respect your choices in leisure activity, even if they have no interest in that activity themselves, then that's a red flag right there.

I speak from experience. I had an ex girlfriend who would endlessly ridicule my taste in music. It got to the point where it felt mean, disrespectful and condescending (not to mention hypocritical given that the girl in question didn't exactly have an eclectic taste in music herself), and it *should* have been a red flag for me.

So I say, wear your passion for gaming on your sleeve, and if someone thinks less of you for it, then that is probably someone that you should think twice about dating. Use it as a filter.

Also I'll chalk up ccesarano's foolishness about PC games due to young age, PC Gaming Master Race Forever

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/ky32w.jpg)

Farscry wrote:

Yeah, I stopped dating for a number of reasons, the biggest one of which is because I'm miserable being alone. Which, ironically, means I shouldn't get into a relationship because I'm too emotionally needy as a result. But I don't want to be alone, and can't figure out how to truly be happy with being single.

It's a vicious cycle with no way out that I can see.

It's good to figure out how to be happy being single first...

Don't force yourself to be social, it should come naturally. Eventually you'll want to go out, meet new people, the only thing you have to do is recognize the difference between forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, and not doing it because you are afraid. And if you don't want to go out, you figure out how to be happy on your own.

Sorry, I'd like to help more but all my crappy advice boils down to the clichéd "Learn to be happy with yourself, and then you'll be ready to find someone to share the happiness".

Improve yourself (for yourself, not for other people), learn what things fulfill you, etc. You're a smart guy, you can figure out how to make yourself happy : )

That picture is amazing. Where is it from?

So I was 24 the last time I did the whole dating thing, granted it yielded a fantastic 4 year relationship but I'm single and I hit 30 this month so it's been a while. Between the time span and the change in expectations that come with age I suspect I'm going to be a bit lost here. On the plus side I don't feel I need someone, I do however think I would like a companion to share this journey with, I want to fall in love again.

My first problem is where the heck do single 30ish year olds hang out? I've been hitting up as many local meetups on meetup.com as I can in hopes of finding someone the shared interest route but no luck on that path yet.

There's always internet dating I suppose, that's how I found the last one, though I'd have to relearn how to make a decent profile and I prefer the offline route when it's viable.

I'm confident I still know how to be a decent date and good partner once things get to those stages, just having trouble finding single age appropriate people to even test the waters with.

Thoughts?

Online dating would be my first thought. I don't know which sites are the best though.