NCAA Football 2012 Season Catch-All

firesloth, you have independently arrived at the consensus I've heard, which is that there's only one interesting BCS match-up other than the championship game.

After that, the next most interesting bowl is Texas A&M v Oklahoma.

Word around Knoxville is that something will be announced Wednesday. Charlie Strong is the leading candidate with Mike Gundy close behind. The plus with Strong is if he is hired he's expected to bring a monster recruiting class with him.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

firesloth, you have independently arrived at the consensus I've heard, which is that there's only one interesting BCS match-up other than the championship game.

After that, the next most interesting bowl is Texas A&M v Oklahoma.

For the second year in a row the Cotton Bowl has a better matchup than at least one BCS Bowl. The game is played at the best venue in the nation and I'm sure Jerry Jones is thrilled.

Just keep Sumlin away from the volleyball team and Harley's.

warhawk, I'm hearing Gundy to Arkansas is a done deal...have you heard anything?

Gumbie wrote:

warhawk, I'm hearing Gundy to Arkansas is a done deal...have you heard anything?

Clay Travis is hearing it is not Gundy. No word on who it is.

Big rumor right now is Kirby Smart finally leaves Bama to become HC at Auburn.

I wonder if Arkansas should have waited until after Tennessee makes its hire? The rumors suggest that Arky has been turned down by numerous candidates. I would argue that Arkansas is a better job at the moment than Auburn. Long term, other way around. Tennessee definitely best job opening in the SEC right now.

So I'm wondering if any of Arky's would-be hires are hoping for UT instead. Gundy was mentioned in both searches, for example.

Who all has received an extension/raise as a result of this search so far? I believe I've heard Les Miles (LSU), James Franklin (Vandy), and Art Briles (Baylor).

Yahoo sports is reporting Bret Bielema (Wisconsin) will be the new Arky coach. If it's true that's a damn good hire.

Saw that. Also saw Malzahn (sp?) to Auburn, which is obviously different than Smart to Auburn.

Some suggesting Gundy is just angling for a raise, like others have gotten. What happens if the jobs fill up first? OSU has successfully called his bluff?

Imho you need to pay your coach enough to keep him happy. You want the guy you want, and you want him fully engaged in coaching and recruiting, not thinking about his next step.

Bielema seems like a great hire not just for his winning record, but also for his youth - you can keep him a long time if it works. Same with Gundy.

Same with Sumlin, and I hope to FSM we're going to give him a big raise soon. We could almost literally double his pay and it would be fair. I don't remember the exact number, but I think he makes in the low twos. Rumor is Bielema just got four.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Bielema seems like a great hire not just for his winning record, but also for his youth - you can keep him a long time if it works.

I bet that's what Barry Alvarez was thinking. I wonder what wasn't working here?

Hurray, I don't have to see Butt Bielema's stupid face anymore. Well, at least until Iowa sh*tcans Ferentz and he takes that job.

Phishposer wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

Bielema seems like a great hire not just for his winning record, but also for his youth - you can keep him a long time if it works.

I bet that's what Barry Alvarez was thinking. I wonder what wasn't working here?

Seems like he's had y'all winning. I'm assuming his salary was less than $4MM?

In general, SEC schools pay the most in the country. And it's a lot easier to negotiate a brand new contract than renegotiate an existing one.

Clay Travis just said (42 seconds ago) that it looks like Charlie Strong to Tennessee!

Please FSM, let this be true, and please also protect him from all of the vicious Tennessee/SEC/everywhere but Kentucky racists.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Clay Travis just said (42 seconds ago) that it looks like Charlie Strong to Tennessee!

Please FSM, let this be true, and please also protect him from all of the vicious Tennessee/SEC/everywhere but Kentucky racists.

Man, that's going in a totally different direction than Dooley. Think Strong will wear the orange pants?

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Clay Travis just said (42 seconds ago) that it looks like Charlie Strong to Tennessee!

Please FSM, let this be true, and please also protect him from all of the vicious Tennessee/SEC/everywhere but Kentucky racists.

You got me. I laughed out loud at work.

I had heard Petersen (which is a long shot for any school), Gundy, Art Briles and hell even Gruden was back in the mix according to some. But Bret Bielema? I don't think anyone saw that coming. We'll see what he can build. It's not going to be easy to turn around a team build for offense quickly. He'll have to recruit the hell out of Texas if he wants to play defense. To do it better than Alabama/LSU is going to be extremely difficult.

In other news, Auburn hired Gus Malzhan. He wrote the book on hurry up no huddle, which Saban despises, and he's a great recruiter. Solid hire for sure. If Tennessee can get Strong you're looking at an even tougher SEC than we have now.

I'm excited to have a coach. This is a great hire. Time to look toward the future after what been an embarrassing and depressing season. My anxiety levels should drop back to normal soon.

I'd like to see Te'o win the Heisman, as much as I loath ND. I'd like to see the trophy be something other than the "Best QB or failing that Best RB and failing that who knows" award.

That said, I think Johnny Football will get it, and deserves it. Collin, hope you enjoyed the trip to NYC.

In 2006 when Darren McFadden lost to Troy Smith. ESPN said "A sophmore can't win the Heisman" over and over again until it became reality. Felt like a screw job. I hope Manzeil wins it, not only for that reason, but because he probably is the best player in the country. Having him on your team is good for two or three more wins.

As I've said before, the year to argue about defenders winning the Heisman is when we have a candidate who is an historically great defender. Teo, while a good player and apparently great person, has not done historically great things - other than getting a bunch of interceptions at linebacker.

Johnny Football has put up historical numbers, while being fun as hell to watch, and making some seriously amazing plays. That's a Heisman winner, imho.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

As I've said before, the year to argue about defenders winning the Heisman is when we have a candidate who is an historically great defender. Teo, while a good player and apparently great person, has not done historically great things - other than getting a bunch of interceptions at linebacker.

Johnny Football has put up historical numbers, while being fun as hell to watch, and making some seriously amazing plays. That's a Heisman winner, imho.

The bar for me is also the value of that player. I think you put Johnny Football on any other 1 loss team in the SEC and they go undefeated. I don't know how much Teo impacts the game in comparison.

Numbers aren't everything. To me it's the impact on the game. If I could be convinced (and admittedly I haven't watched Notre Dame much) that Teo impacts a game more than Manziel I'd easily vote for Teo. Just like I'd be willing to consider a dominant O-Lineman. The problem is always going to be that it's easier to quantify what a QB or RB does and they have the ball in their hands much more often than anyone else.

According to their website, the "Heisman Memorial Trophy will be awarded to an individual designated as the outstanding college football player in the United States."

Stats aren't mentioned.

DSGamer wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

As I've said before, the year to argue about defenders winning the Heisman is when we have a candidate who is an historically great defender. Teo, while a good player and apparently great person, has not done historically great things - other than getting a bunch of interceptions at linebacker.

Johnny Football has put up historical numbers, while being fun as hell to watch, and making some seriously amazing plays. That's a Heisman winner, imho.

The bar for me is also the value of that player. I think you put Johnny Football on any other 1 loss team in the SEC and they go undefeated. I don't know how much Teo impacts the game in comparison.

And there's the thing. People who don't watch the team regularly can't really say how he impacts the game and his team. There aren't always stats for defenders in the same way as there are for QBs. You can certainly judge the team's defense and its points allowed per game stat (of order 10 points), but you're looking for an indicator of an individual's impact.

Fedaykin, what I think you're saying is that Teo hasn't put up historically great numbers. It's harder to say a LB like Teo hasn't done "historically great things" (especially if you haven't watched all his games...or even me, since I'm not a coach watching the all-22 footage). You're trying to quantify a player's greatness.

However, numbers aren't everything. Period.

I'd agree with you that Manziel has been "fun as hell to watch and made some seriously great plays." As a fan of defensive football, I find Teo fun as hell to watch as a LB that made some seriously great plays...but I'm a fan, and you're a fan. We're both biased. (By the way, the vast majority of those INTs were not throws that hit him in the breadbasket, they were fingertip catches that he made because he was watching the play, reading where the ball was headed.)

It is clear that it is incredibly difficult for people to convince themselves that a defender or an O-lineman is the "best player" in college football. (Or, hell, what about Nick Fairley from Auburn a few years back?)

I find it very hard to believe that there hasn't ever been an O-lineman or a safety or a linebacker that was as good a football player as the quarterback or running back selected in a given year.

(For the record, two defensive ends – one of whom played TE as well – and one CB who also returned punts have received the Heisman. Only one of those came after 1950.)

firesloth - Fair enough, and I'm sure we'll both keep our opinions regardless of what is said.
EDIT: I was responding to your longer post, two messages up. But fair enough to either. Stats are still good.

I don't think I've posted this already, forgive me if I have - this is my devil's advocate argument for why fewer defenders get the Heisman or MVP (and I'm pulling for JJ Watt for MVP, so I'm all for great defenders!):

In high school, the best athletes tend to get put at QB and RB, because that's where they touch the ball the most and therefore affect the game the most. Tons and tons of high school QBs and RBs play different positions at the next level. You also put some of your most athletic guys at WR, for similar reasons. Collectively, we refer to these as "skill positions".

So there's a natural sorting of the best players to these few offensive positions during the formative years of their football careers. Many of these play different positions in college, but the best of them (the best athletes/players) remain skill position players. Now you've got just the best of the best playing the skill positions at the college level.

Again, all that said, JJ Watt for MVP, and Von Miller should have won the Heisman, did win the Butkus.

While I'm at it, Randy Bullock won the Groza, and should have won the Heisman. His position is even more overlooked than Teo's!

Again, all that said, JJ Watt for MVP, and Von Miller should have won the Heisman, did win the Butkus.

While I'm at it, Randy Bullock won the Groza, and should have won the Heisman. His position is even more overlooked than Teo's!

Rad!

Look, I'm not necessarily of the opinion that Manziel shouldn't win. However, if you look at the coverage of Teo as a Heisman candidate, which has been discussed since about week 3, it's always with him in about second or third place to a QB. That QB changed several times throughout the season (remember how Geno Smith had the thing locked up in early October?). Teo was always in that discussion, and always given no chance because he played LB. He was always in second or third place. Week after week. So, why is that?

One can ask about his impact. The admittedly biased ND players on defense would readily trumpet his impact since even last spring on their unit. If the #1 or #2 defensive unit in the country is in that position because of the influence and leadership of a player (impossible to quantify), there's an argument in favor of that defender being the "outstanding player" in the country. There's an argument, but not one that can be concretely defended.

Manziel had at least one dog of a game (LSU), but he certainly stepped in the biggest game (Alabama) and many others. At the same time, Teo stepped up against Stanford and Oklahoma, arguably the biggest games for ND this year, as well as every other one in which he played.

The Heisman is asking us to compare these two players when there is no point of comparison (because their positions are so different). I'm okay with that...as long as we all realize that. Its meaning is just not what it says it is.

Oh, and while I have heard and don't immediately dismiss the argument about when players get slotted into their positions, I'd like for you to explain this to JJ Watt, Ray Lewis, and Von Miller. They might have a few things to say about that...

Charles Woodson got a lot of help winning by doing punt returns.

Maybe if Teo had returned some INTs for TDs that would have pushed him over the top.

A Notre Dame/A&M bowl game would be pretty epic and maybe more interesting than the National Championship Game. And that's saying a lot, because I think this NCG will probably set records for viewership.

Not too much happening on the coaching front for Cal. Now that the dust has sort of cleared it looks like Tennessee, Cal, and now Wisconsin are the 3 really major openings remaining. Hazell from Kent State is headed to Purdue so cross his name off the Cal list... the news is that Diaco would consider BC before Cal and Gary Anderson from Utah State is staying put. Cal just interviewed Mike McIntyre from San Jose State. Sonny Dykes seems to still be the most publicly known front runner. Not so sure how excited I am about that.

However, given how out of left field the Arkansas hire was it just shows that what we read isn't the only thing that's going on out there. Hey.. Chris Peterson hasn't said no yet and until then or until someone is hired we keep dreaming.

Carlbear95 wrote:

However, given how out of left field the Arkansas hire was it just shows that what we read isn't the only thing that's going on out there. Hey.. Chris Peterson hasn't said no yet and until then or until someone is hired we keep dreaming.

Can't stress the bold enough. About 6pm yesterday Charlie Strong was Tenn's "leading candidate." By 11pm, Yahoo! had already reported he was staying at Louisville. This morning, reports are Tenn offered the job to Gundy. Then by lunchtime, apparently Gundy turned them down. And all the reports out of Louisville this morning say they are working on a renegotiation and/or extension with Charlie Strong's contract.

So I guess Tenn is back to maybe Larry Fedora from UNC? Or maybe Gruden again, since he was such a "lock" right?

Fedaykin98 wrote:

As I've said before, the year to argue about defenders winning the Heisman is when we have a candidate who is an historically great defender. Teo, while a good player and apparently great person, has not done historically great things - other than getting a bunch of interceptions at linebacker.

Johnny Football has put up historical numbers, while being fun as hell to watch, and making some seriously amazing plays. That's a Heisman winner, imho.

Just want to check, you mean historical for A&M right?

Sheesh karma, everything in the SEC is historical, man. Don't you know?

Stele wrote:

Or maybe Gruden again, since he was such a "lock" right? :lol:

Keep laughing, it's not over yet...:)