Guild Wars 2 Catch All

karmajay wrote:

I want a lot of them in my next MMO.

Interesting. I was thinking the same thing - but that part about "next MMO" is what really sets the tone here. There's really never going to be a MMO to end all MMOs, is there? It's fascinating, from a design standpoint. Richard Garriott wasn't the first person to conceptualize the MMO, but he was the first person to capitalize financially from it. So let's call him the "father" of MMOs, for arguments sake. How many "generations" have been removed from the original Ultima Online? In essence, that game started the whole ball rolling, showed that it could be profitable. In a weird way, MMOs have taken on a life of their own - each MMO breeding siblings (imitators), eventually merging with other MMOs to breed children. They even have Asian and European cousins now! It's like the idea of a meme, but much larger.

Sorry - I was just rambling, feel free to ignore.

Scratched wrote:

Something I'm wondering, random thought rather than going chicken-little. Does anyone thing another company will out-GW2 arenanet?

I'm thinking along the lines that for all the WoW imitators, or companies pushing out 'old' model MMOs with the aim of being the WoW-killer, it never happened because they never really got the fundamentals there. With GW2 in it's current state I think Arenanet have the spark of something great, but they need to nurture it well for it to be awesome, there's ways they can go both positive and negative.

I wonder if another company could come along and eat their lunch before they get critical mass (*). I'm not really seeing anything on the horizon, no real "GW2 clone", but I wonder if any companies would copy a few little bits here and there and end up doing it better overall.

(* not that they need a constant army of players, I'm sure the game is sustainable without a ton of players)

Personally, I hope GW 2 kicks off a revolution in MMOs because the genre needs it. This weekend I took a look at the "top MMOs of 2013." Most of them seem to be Lineage clones or complete eye candy (I tried Raiderz at PAX and while the graphics were amazing I wasn't impressed). Elder Scrolls Online might be interesting but so far it looks like it has similar combat to WOW. And then there's the Everquest sequel.

http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/524...

If GW2 evolves from this point as much as WoW has, GW2 could be the next MMO you play. Just as WoW was to many people each time the game was overhauled/updated/expanded.

The combat for ESO looks nothing like WoW

Oh and that 2013 list looks a lot like Lineage because almost half that list has folks from the different Lineage teams.

Still Archeage is definitely worth keeping an eye on. It's structured much like old school UO, but not quite as harsh which may appeal to more folks.

BadMojo wrote:

If GW2 evolves from this point as much as WoW has, GW2 could be the next MMO you play. Just as WoW was to many people each time the game was overhauled/updated/expanded.

It has to do a LOT more to get to that point. It'll definitely keep alive with folks buying expansions like they did the first GW, but GW2 does start getting a bit on the boring side without a massive group to play with so you can mix things up with WvW and raids.

ranalin wrote:
BadMojo wrote:

If GW2 evolves from this point as much as WoW has, GW2 could be the next MMO you play. Just as WoW was to many people each time the game was overhauled/updated/expanded.

It has to do a LOT more to get to that point. It'll definitely keep alive with folks buying expansions like they did the first GW, but GW2 does start getting a bit on the boring side without a massive group to play with so you can mix things up with WvW and raids.

That's along the lines I'm thinking. No one is going to hand Arenanet world domination on a plate, they've got to earn it, and there's lots to do yet. I'm thinking about things like the WvW borderland orb going missing, I can appreciate it's probably not an easy fix, but it's been a month now with no news. WvW wasone of their big selling points is a bit lame and boring without it.

I guess I'm not seeing signs of long term greatness yet, based on recent history and the current state of the game. There's opportunity for AN to take it all, but there's also the opportunity to lose it.

ESO is going to go down in flames. The good thing about it is that it will be the final death knell of traditional mmos.

ranalin wrote:
BadMojo wrote:

If GW2 evolves from this point as much as WoW has, GW2 could be the next MMO you play. Just as WoW was to many people each time the game was overhauled/updated/expanded.

It has to do a LOT more to get to that point. It'll definitely keep alive with folks buying expansions like they did the first GW, but GW2 does start getting a bit on the boring side without a massive group to play with so you can mix things up with WvW and raids.

The upcoming 10 man raid/dungeons should help in that regard.

Right now GW2 is still perfect for me and my father of an 8 month old lifestyle.

Cobble wrote:

ESO is going to go down in flames. The good thing about it is that it will be the final death knell of traditional mmos.

?? seriously WTF do people keep saying this?

Anyone who thinks anything coming out in the next year is death knell of anything is just blind and is hopped up on crazy juice.

Scratched wrote:

I'm thinking about things like the WvW borderland orb going missing, I can appreciate it's probably not an easy fix, but it's been a month now with no news. WvW wasone of their big selling points is a bit lame and boring without it.

WvW is fine without the orb - it'll be better with a fixed version, but it's not broken right now. Honestly, WvW is only lame if you're trying to play it without being part of a group/guild that has some organization around how they approach it. There aren't many of those on Northern Shiverpeaks (GWJ's home server) right now, but there are a couple of guilds who are trying to bring some sense of community and organization to the server.

What does hurt WvW - far more than the missing orb - is free server transfers that still have very little restrictions around them. (once per week?) That policy allows entire guilds to swap servers.... which KILLED Northern Shiverpeaks about a month ago when an entire alliance of guilds hopped servers to get more favorable match-ups.

Badferret wrote:

The upcoming 10 man raid/dungeons should help in that regard.

Wait, what?

Scratched wrote:
Badferret wrote:

The upcoming 10 man raid/dungeons should help in that regard.

Wait, what?

Ugh

ranalin wrote:
Cobble wrote:

ESO is going to go down in flames. The good thing about it is that it will be the final death knell of traditional mmos.

?? seriously WTF do people keep saying this?

Anyone who thinks anything coming out in the next year is death knell of anything is just blind and is hopped up on crazy juice.

Have you even seen any of the coverage?? It looks like a steamy hot pile of mediocrity. Any previewers who have seen it have said the same. Most elder scrolls fans (which I am) don't want it to exist. Mmo fans seems to be desiring newness not reskinned sameness.

And that's enough from me on this thread derail.

Cobble wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Cobble wrote:

ESO is going to go down in flames. The good thing about it is that it will be the final death knell of traditional mmos.

?? seriously WTF do people keep saying this?

Anyone who thinks anything coming out in the next year is death knell of anything is just blind and is hopped up on crazy juice.

Have you even seen any of the coverage?? It looks like a steamy hot pile of mediocrity. Any previewers who have seen it have said the same. Most elder scrolls fans (which I am) don't want it to exist. Mmo fans seems to be desiring newness not reskinned sameness.

And that's enough from me on this thread derail.

I have seen the coverage and disagree.

I could have sworn I saw one of the Devs post about future 10 man dungeons but can't find it now.

Still, I think it is inevitable and not a big deal as long as the rewards continue to be cosmetic.

I am a fan of cosmetic rewards as well. On that note, I saw my first Sunrise today in Lion's Arch. That is a REALLY cool looking sword.

Scratched wrote:

I'm thinking about things like the WvW borderland orb going missing, I can appreciate it's probably not an easy fix, but it's been a month now with no news. WvW wasone of their big selling points is a bit lame and boring without it.

I think you might be in the minority in preferring WvW with the orbs, based on in-game chatter and forum threads everyone else is very happy to see them gone. The matches since have been of a much better quality, frustration towards hacking is down and the playing field is a lot more level now.

Granted some of that is due to the rankings stabilizing, but even so.. it was not a good mechanic and WvW is much more exciting now that everyone has a fighting chance.

By itself the orbs aren't that big a deal, a bonus for whoever had it. There were really two problems with it before it was removed.

Firstly, it was a hacking magnet, hackers would teleport in and steal the orb, teleport right back to base to capture it, leading to some servers giving it back without a defence because of the hacker who happened to be on their server, leaving the fort undefended so they could right the wrong. I think teleporting still goes on as AN haven't fixed the underlying issue (trusting the client probably).

Secondly, it gave a bonus to hp and stats (for reference, the outmanned bonus gives you an xp/karma/magic find bonus), and instead of a method for the underdog server(s) to pick up something on the borderland servers to help them grab stonemist, it led to a 'rich get richer' scenario where once it was secured by a server it becomes harder to liberate it. Really, the orb/outmanned bonuses need to be swapped at least, or one of them replaced.

Yes, technically in a points accumulation game the orbs don't strictly matter as it's mostly about the captureable points, but they gave purpose to the borderlands, focused efforts and required strategy.

ranalin wrote:
Cobble wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Cobble wrote:

ESO is going to go down in flames. The good thing about it is that it will be the final death knell of traditional mmos.

?? seriously WTF do people keep saying this?

Anyone who thinks anything coming out in the next year is death knell of anything is just blind and is hopped up on crazy juice.

Have you even seen any of the coverage?? It looks like a steamy hot pile of mediocrity. Any previewers who have seen it have said the same. Most elder scrolls fans (which I am) don't want it to exist. Mmo fans seems to be desiring newness not reskinned sameness.

And that's enough from me on this thread derail.

I have seen the coverage and disagree.

I have seen the coverage and agree. (With Cobble, I mean. At least about ESO. It's not going to be the death knell of anything, just another in the long line of failed WOW clones.)

For once I would like to see a new MMO without people shouting about WoW or how the game is TEH FAIL. A handful of screenshots and a few minutes of footage of a game in early alpha and people are already calling it DOA.

The day people stop commenting on whatever information a company releases is the same day I win the lottery, or something.

I'm just tired of how much like petulant children gamers tend to be towards new properties in the MMO space. (I mean this in the nicest possible way, of course. ) Frankly, I'm excited when a new MMO comes out, it's a new place to explore and exorcise compulsive habits.
If a new MMO turns out crap, then so be it, but at least I wait till I've actually played it before I've made up my mind.

Lets put it all to rest and get back to Gw2. A game we all love ( and the point of the thread after all)

Cobble wrote:

Lets put it all to rest and get back to Gw2. A game we all love ( and the point of the thread after all)

actually it was brought up as a potential contrast to GW2. It's just hard to do with everyone throwing out false information about ESO.

ranalin wrote:
Cobble wrote:

Lets put it all to rest and get back to Gw2. A game we all love ( and the point of the thread after all)

actually it was brought up as a potential contrast to GW2. It's just hard to do with everyone throwing out false information about ESO.

Cmon man. Let it go. There was no false information just different opinions.

Anyways I heard some LA map chatter earlier that some sort of autoinstance queue is being worked on. While I have always been iffy on those I think in this case a cross server finder would be a godsend. There are just so many configurations of instances that people are looking for, with all the fractal levels an dungeon paths.

That would be fantastic. The game has so many options, it's hard for the usual forcing of players into templated boxes. But players try anyway. And because there are so many options, there's far too many templates for just one world to handle.

I'm curious why Anet has previously said "no" to Look For Dungeon. This game cries for it. And it's not as though there's some rigid requirement to stick to just your own world since so many other aspects of the game are cross server.

As to the upcoming MMOs, what's the protocol for breaking off into a new thread? I'm new here

One thing I think would help greatly with LFG and be a nice quality of life improvement is to drop/remove the cost of going to a waypoint. Although it's a cash sink I can't help thinking that for getting a group together, it almost forces people to the big hub, LA, to stand a decent chance of finding enough people rather than gathering outside whatever dungeon you want to do.

That's the only non-LFG-tool way I can see of improving it, and even then it's not really flawless or perfect as I'm sure people will still be flying around looking for people everywhere, and it doesn't really cover people who would want to do a range of dungeons.

Really, not making a LFG-tool seems like ignoring the current state of play of gaming. Even a 'primitive' party gathering tool as GW1 had, which was just a notice board (good for trade too) is better than nothing. People expect some form of matchmaking in their games now.

One thing I think would help greatly with LFG and be a nice quality of life improvement is to drop/remove the cost of going to a waypoint.

This is my #1 desired change as well. GW1 made it so that there was never any penalty for bringing a spreadout group together, which was fantastic, but I really dislike having to actually hesitate when I need to spend silver to travel to meet up with friends.

Pffft. Poor people.

Travel costs gave me pause for the first 20 levels or so, but it's easy enough to make money that I don't think they're really an issue.

I am the 1%!!!

Travel costs are negligible except, as Ruhk points out, for the first 20 or so levels when a silver or two is actually meaningful. I think the highest cost I've ever paid is 3s50c for teleporting the entire way across the world - that's peanuts for any mid-level character with enough of the world unlocked to go that far.

The game makes money-making so simple as you level up.... just vendor the extra gear you get as you're questing and you should never have a money problem.