NHL 2012-2013: Tentative deal early Sunday January 6

Ranger Rick wrote:
jowner wrote:

Sure your die hards in the southern markets will come back but with the casual fans its 1 step forward 2 steps back.

I can't speak for the other southern markets, but I can say I have reasonably high hopes about hockey long-term in Carolina. The ownership has come in from the beginning knowing they would not see immediate results, and they have been building up youth hockey in the area in a major way, to the point of not having enough ice time for leagues in some cases.

We are just hitting the point where kids who got started in the area are draft-eligible, and while we won't be competing with Canada anytime soon, it's clear we have a market that will have more than just a few first-generation diehards (and "Yankees" moving here from Boston, Philly, and NYC) interested in the sport.

It will take 20 more years to really be visible, but (fingers crossed) it seems to be working.

Not to say the lockout won't hurt, it'll set us back harder than many, but I see a lot of limping together of southern markets when they all have their own dynamics. I've heard Nashville has done similarly well investing in youth hockey as well.

Karmanos, despite moving the Whalers and the NHL losing their awesome jerseys and logo, has done an exceptional job with the Hurricanes. He's shown a lot of patience and has always brought in the right people. Invested heavily in the local area and has done his damndest to grow hockey. I want the Hurricanes to succeed because it seems like everyone involved is passionate about the sport.

Vector wrote:
Vrikk wrote:

And I say Bettman has been detriment more than some people do. The '05 lockout didn't help because the popularity of the sport has yet to recover.

It has? A lot of the reports I've read have stated the NHL has having their highest ratings ever.

Vrikk wrote:

It's never been as popular as the MLB, NFL, or NBA, and I know Ovie, Sid the Kid, and others have helped in the past 6 years, but it's still not the same.

And it never will be. The most NHL can compete with is the NBA for the "3rd" slot. Hockey also has a unique problem in that it's an expensive winter sport as opposed to cheap other sports that kids can get in to. The NHL will always be popular and profitable in the same way that the MLB is because of an outside country providing a large amount of fans (roughly 30 million).

Competing for 3rd is a pretty long stretch also.

As Canadians we always forget that College sports in the States is massive. The NHL would be lucky to compete against Basketball.... College Basketball.

jowner wrote:
Vector wrote:
Vrikk wrote:

And I say Bettman has been detriment more than some people do. The '05 lockout didn't help because the popularity of the sport has yet to recover.

It has? A lot of the reports I've read have stated the NHL has having their highest ratings ever.

Vrikk wrote:

It's never been as popular as the MLB, NFL, or NBA, and I know Ovie, Sid the Kid, and others have helped in the past 6 years, but it's still not the same.

And it never will be. The most NHL can compete with is the NBA for the "3rd" slot. Hockey also has a unique problem in that it's an expensive winter sport as opposed to cheap other sports that kids can get in to. The NHL will always be popular and profitable in the same way that the MLB is because of an outside country providing a large amount of fans (roughly 30 million).

Competing for 3rd is a pretty long stretch also.

As Canadians we always forget that College sports in the States is massive. The NHL would be lucky to compete against Basketball.... College Basketball.

I meant 3rd just among the professional sports. It's happened before so it is conceivable. American college sports are a whole different beast.

NASCAR is more a regional "sport", but I believe it's much more popular than hockey.

MaxShrek wrote:

NASCAR is more a regional "sport", but I believe it's much more popular than hockey.

Massively more popular than the NHL. Poker draws (or drew) higher ratings as well.

Gimpy_Butzke wrote:

I've only been a hockey fan for about two years. My start with the game came from seeing Kopitar and Quick playing extremely well to earn the Kings a win. Seeing them struggle despite having some very obvious talent was very interesting. Last season was extremely entertaining for me once the Kings started winning after the change to a new coach. I didn't expect the Kings to win last year, but their victory last season got me quite excited to see if they would continue their momentum into the 2012-13.

It is a real shame that all these athletes have to struggle so much to feel like they're not getting screwed by the league or the team owners.

jowner wrote:

The shocking thing is how its not even 4th. The only people who even know the NHL is locked out is NHL fans.

That also disappoints me. I think hockey is a far more interesting sport that takes drastically more skill and athleticism when you compare it to the popular US sports. In my opinion hockey deserves to have ratings similar to the other major US sports.

2 YEARS!!!??! You missed out on so much heartbreak and disappointment.... Like all the other work stoppages.... Oh and the Kings sucking too.... just kidding. Go Kings go!

I imagine that the Kings had to have sucked because they still didn't win a cup with Gretzky.

Hockey will never be popular in the US and the NHL and its players seem to be fine with that.

Gimpy_Butzke wrote:

I imagine that the Kings had to have sucked because they still didn't win a cup with Gretzky.

The worst part of not winning during the Gretzky era when they were so close was the sucking the years after. I fell out of hockey slightly back then between the terrible team and the work stoppages of the mid 90s. I came back 100% in the late 90s. I missed hockey in 2005 but the Kings were bad back then so it was okay.

Now it is different. I want to see if this team can dominate like they did in the playoffs.

PS - My daughter turned on game 6 I have saved on my DVR yesterday morning.

Gimpy_Butzke wrote:

I imagine that the Kings had to have sucked because they still didn't win a cup with Gretzky.

Watch the ESPN 30-for-30 "The Trade" documentary. When Gretzsky is asked about how many Cups he won with the Kings after the Oilers, you can see the pain in his eyes because he realizes how much more he could have won if he didn't leave Edmonton. He even said "We could have won 4 more".

They are very close. All you are hearing in the media is posturing for that last part.

They agree with 50-50 with making the contracts whole.

So what is going on now?

They are arguing who is paying for this year loss of revenue and future contract issues.

Players hate the 5 years 5% rule. They think they are punishing the players for cap circumventing moves by the GMs.

The owners will give in on this then they will talk about how to split this years revenue. I predict they will start training camp the week after Thanksgiving.

goman wrote:

They are very close. All you are hearing in the media is posturing for that last part.

They agree with 50-50 with making the contracts whole.

So what is going on now?

They are arguing who is paying for this year loss of revenue and future contract issues.

Players hate the 5 years 5% rule. They think they are punishing the players for cap circumventing moves by the GMs.

The owners will give in on this then they will talk about how to split this years revenue. I predict they will start training camp the week after Thanksgiving.

I have a much more pessimistic view at this point. One where they are close to making the deal but neither side at this point is willing to budge, and the idiot players will follow Donal Fehr right off the edge of the cliff and waste a year or more of their careers to prove a point, which they will ultimately fail to do, and really screw those players near the end of their careers.

Yeah. I'm banking on no season.

I'll just keep playing NHL 13. There's only so many breakaways of Stamkos, Ovie, and Sid the Kid I can face, right?

Even if there is a season this year, I won't be watching. Screw 'em all.

I'm really frustrated with the lockout and with how close they are in reality but are so incredibly hard-nosed in the negotiations. But the minute there's NHL hockey again you can bet I'm watching as much as I can.

At most, my retaliation for this stupidity will be not buying tickets to see a game live this year.

I don't blame the players at all for getting Fehr in response to the league having Bettman negotiating. If there was an arms race for tough negotiators, that was just the players leveling the playing field by getting a nuke of their own. I do think its ridiculous that both sides waited all summer before even starting to talk though. Bettman had to have planned to lockout this season (aka, the nuclear option) from the start. He's too smart to not know that was going to happen.

Yeah, I've never seen the reason to get upset over work stoppages. If I like a sport, and they play, I watch. If they don't, I watch or do something else. I didn't bail on baseball or football, either.

I'm bummed, as I think the Blues are on the verge of some real awesomeness, and this does nothing but jack that up. But when they come back, I'm going to be right there watching and rooting for them to win.

Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, I've never seen the reason to get upset over work stoppages. If I like a sport, and they play, I watch. If they don't, I watch or do something else. I didn't bail on baseball or football, either.

For Canadians, hockey is a part of our national identity. As a country we've always struggled to differentiate ourselves from the USA and hockey is something we all can point to. Unfortunately, the NHL represents hockey in most places in Canada. It kind of feels like the NHL and NHLPA are treating the country like a battered housewife. They know that Canadians will always return. We have to.

This may not be the AHL thread, but with the NHL being locked out I got to see Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jordan Eberle, Taylor Hall and Justin Schultz come to town and only paid $15 dollars to watch the game. I only had to drive for 5 minutes (not 45min), claimed my free pop for being DD and had my daughter get pictured on the jumbotron was pretty awesome. Oh and after we were on the jumbotron our row all got free lemonade. With the NHL locked out our city might not take a big hit on lost revenue this year, which means taxes might not go up.

As horrible as it sounds I don't mind the lock out right now...

*edit* I do however feel bad for the people who are financially hurt by the lockout. Stadium workers, etc.

I have no problem with this being a hockey catch-all. I want to go watch a game in the Asian league and I'll probably write something up about it.

Vector wrote:

I have no problem with this being a hockey catch-all.

Agreed. Otherwise it would just be a thread of, "They're talking!" "They're not talking." ad nauseum.

My next venture is to see the CT Whale take on Albany Devils on Dec. 9. Going to try to get Jeff Beukeboom to sign my Beukeboom jersey.

Vector wrote:

I have no problem with this being a hockey catch-all. I want to go watch a game in the Asian league and I'll probably write something up about it.

Wow. I expected a tirade of comments directed at my blasphemous thoughts (all in good humour).

I now suspect the Japanese have roboticized you...

I look forward to the Asian league 100 page report.

Oddly enough, you could shorten that to "They're all stupid" and get the point across as easily.

As for the lockout, at first I was mad. Then, I was sad. Now I'm apathetic, and it might be a few years before I watch hockey again; it happened the last time there was a lockout.

@wyshynski Today in unfortunate timing of published #hockey headlines ... http://twitpic.com/bdpm3i

IMAGE(http://twitpic.com/show/full/bdpm3i.jpg)

One of my favorite hockey writers has written about Taiwanese hockey and I found it more interesting than the day-to-day stuff when the NHL wasn't locked out. I guess what I'm saying is more hockey reports please.

On the subject of the lockout, this piece by another favorite writer of mine is a must read in my opinion: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201... . Amazing what a little digging into public records will get someone when they're willing to put in a little bit of time rather than parrot what their sources tell them.

It's been fun watching some Russian games on the NHL Network lately. Even if I know none of the people. Or the language.

Nothing concrete new but they are still talking atleast.... Besides Bettmans best efforts to take a 2 week break. Cause you know when the clock is ticking on the whole season getting canned a two week vacation is the brightest idea.

They need to lock themselves in a room and grind this out. No one is allowed to leave and the most stubborn side wins! There it’s over. 2 week break?

What a joker.

jowner wrote:

Nothing concrete new but they are still talking atleast.... Besides Bettmans best efforts to take a 2 week break. Cause you know when the clock is ticking on the whole season getting canned a two week vacation is the brightest idea.

They need to lock themselves in a room and grind this out. No one is allowed to leave and the most stubborn side wins! There it’s over. 2 week break?

What a joker.

I wonder if the "two week break option" was a ploy by Bettman to get the NHLPA to bend. Negotiations were going nowhere, talks break off, Bettman offers the 2 week break. It makes it seem like the owners are OK with slowing things down and losing more games. It put pressure on the players to come back with concessions, or face even more paychecks lost with no progress made.

It was mentioned that the players seemed to be under pressure now to get a deal done. It also riled up some of the players, who shot off their mouths and now look like asses for making personal attacks. That might have been a pretty shrewd move by Bettman and the owners.

Again, all are assholes. Bettinan is the biggest asshole but that's his job.

I'm not sure the 2 week break was even real. There is a lot of misinformation out there from both sides. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are liars. I agree with the players perspective slightly more than the NHL but, really, I am finding it very hard to be excited for more NHL hockey.

As a fan, I don't care about revenue. I don't care about profits. I don't care about escrow or salary caps. Percentages are meaningless. All I care about is watching my team win. Anything else is a meaningless distraction and lessens my enjoyment.

Vector wrote:

I am finding it very hard to be excited for more NHL hockey.

As a fan, I don't care about revenue. I don't care about profits. I don't care about escrow or salary caps. Percentages are meaningless. All I care about is watching my team win. Anything else is a meaningless distraction and lessens my enjoyment.

+1. This is also one of the reasons why I'm finding racing way more enjoyable to watch: I don't know anything about the business side—and I'm definitely not trying to find out more (it helps that there's no mainstream coverage, so I'm not going to get sucked into reading opinion columns in the paper on my lunch break or anything). I've no doubt some of those bodies are slimier than the NHL (F1), but some are probably too small-fry to even have the chance to be gross (CRC).

Heck, I don't even have favourite teams or drivers in the series I've just started watching. It's nothing but enjoying pure athletic performances across the board, which is all spectator sports should really be for their fans.

Talks done for Wednesday, nothing good came of it. NHL seems to be going kaput.