The IDF starterd opreation "Pillar of Cloud" in Gaza (ended Nov 21 2012 23:00 GMT+2)

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Ahmed Jabari , Head of the Hamas military branch , was just killed by the IDF. As far as I understood a new military operation is in progress.

I'm hearing channel 2 news live through a stream and they say the operation is called "Pillar of Cloud " in Gaza. Rumors I've read talk about a shut down of open markets and education facilities in the south . The also talk about explosions in Gaza . There was a ceasefire which Egypt mediated that didn't work too because one of the militant groups in Gaza didn't stop shooting.

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .
Missile range map(idf Facebook click to enlarge):

IMAGE(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230179_488608664495342_1221980957_n.jpg)

Events which lead to the military operation :
- a bomb on the border 2 IDF soldier got hurt (light-moderate)
- Cornet missile hit a military jeep but went through instead of explosding - 4 soldiers were wounded . The two that got seriously wounded lost their eye sight.
- 100+ rocket launched at civilian population areas in Israel

update day 1:

- Fajr 5 rocket bunkers bombed - those can reach Tel Aviv with 75km range and carry a 150kg warhead
- the IDF is preparing land forces to enter Gaza
-"Homefront" reservists were called on immediate duty (order ~8 - enlistment for war). The news claim no combat reservist were called on duty ( I bet that information is classified).
Update day 2:
Morning :
- 3 Israeli civilians dead when grad rocket hit a building in Kiryat Malachi .
Noon:
- A Syrians mortal shell hit a military base in the northern border causing very light wounds to a soldier (yesterday the IDF shot back as response to a similar incident )
- According to a local news forum(rotter) there is a rocket launch every 10 minutes or less. According to their reports the first ring is getting hit by most of the rockets.
- 3 IDF soldiers were lightly-moderately wounded by a mortar shell
Afternoon:
- Channel 2 news : 160 rockets launched and almost 100 were successfully intercepted by Iron Dome .
- Siren in Rishon Le-Zion (north of where I live) - currently none know if it's a real or a false alarm but a women who lives there heard the blast .
Evening
- 2 rockets shots at Tel-Aviv. None landed on the ground. I think someone slipped they were intercepted - I think there is one iron dome system there.
update Day 3:
-Egyptian prime minister visits Gaza but gives a very careful speech so the USA doesn't get angry.
- I think the current figure is around 400 rockets launched with about 130+ intercepted. They are talking about 88% interception by iron dome.
- 7km line are still getting hit the hardest but there were hits on Ashkelon and Ashadod
- Ehud Barak the Minister of defense asks for 30000 reservists yesterday and the Chief of Staff calls 16000 reservist sending them "Order 8"s .
- Rafael delivers a 5th iron dome system is IDF a few month early . It was scheduled to be delivered next year.
Evening
- Rocket hit Tel Aviv - no casualties
- Rocket hit near Jerusalem
- looks like the reserves are being called (saw one of my neighbors in uniform )

update day 4-5

- A Bunch of rockets some hit buildings but most people obey the instructions which prevented serious injury or death
- The government approved calling up 75000 reserve soldiers
- Iron dome Battery #5 goes active in Tel Aviv and an hour later intercept a rocket.
- A Fajr 5 rocket was intercepted over the Tel Aviv area on Sunday a piece shrapnel hit a car which went up in flames (none got hurt).
- A rocket hit a car near Ofakim, 2 seriously wounded 1 moderately 2 lightly wounded.
- The IDF is escalating its strikes causing more civilian casualties while killing prominent members of Hamas which is known to use the civilian population as human shields.
- There have been large rocket barrages on cities which limited the effectiveness of Iron Dome in the last 15 rocket barrage on Be'er Sheva 3 rockets hit urban areas while the rest were intercepted.
update day 6
- The radio said there is 40% decrease in the number missiles fired
- There is a negotiation for a Cease fire but both sides have preconditions which make it hard to go into effect.
- The IDF started attacking secondary targets like smuggling tunnels
- The news said there are plenty of missiles left for iron dome and each of them cost 50000$ . They also mentioned the system has 3 batteries of 20 missiles each . I've heard they are rushing a 6th system.
update day 6-7
- Last night a Fajr 5 hit a building in Rishon Le-Zion luckily only one person was lightly wounded
- A rocket hit a soldier and killed him. A Bedouin civilian also died from a rocket (they don't have shelters or alarms)
- There was a talk of a cease fire and there was increased fire from both sides .Currently there is no ceasefire agreement.
- There is very little chance of a ground offensive but The IDF was ordered to continue to transform Gaza into a parking lot .
- The residents of north of the Gaza strip was instructed by the IDF to leave their homes. Following that the IDF started using tanks and artillery.
Noon
-Bus blew up in Tel-Aviv 17 wounded 2 seriously-moderately 3 moderately they rest sustained light wounds. The worst injury was sustained by s a woman with multiple fracture and dislocated shoulder(Israel channel 10 news).

day 8~ It's over!
- Cease fire that was probably pushed by Obama with someone of promise (the US citizens are going to regret this ). as of 23:00 Monday mutual exchange of fire stopped.
- According to ynet 56 (rotter) dead ,500 wounded on the Israeli side . On the Palestinian side 163 dead and about 1200 wounded. 1500 rockets were launched , 421 were intercepted and 58 hit urban areas (88% interception not accounting to the fact not all areas were covered). On the Palestinian side about 1500 rockets were hit.
- As far as I understood the damage to Gaza is extensive. This operation had almost 10 times the air strikes compared to Cast Lead. I've heard on the news the situation in Gaza is so bad that it was hard for the people to buy food ( stores closed and prices were also raised) .
- In this operation the civilian population of Gaza was alert to IDF warnings which explain the relatively low number of civilian casualties compared to cast lead. One of the reasons that might have caused Cast Lead to be deadly was because Anat Kam stole the operational plans and the military compensated by using more fire power .
- Part of the agreement makes the Egyptians more responsible to what's going on in Gaza

Ah, and this is where the IDF tries to look tough by beating up on people in chains.

Let me guess, something bad is happening on the political front?

Stay safe, Niseg.

SSDD. Neither side has the ability to show any real restraint. The rest of us will half pay attention as the big kid who should know better keeps picking on his little brother, then wonders why the little one refuses to fight "fair".

Nevin73 wrote:

Stay safe, Niseg.

+1

Malor wrote:

Let me guess, something bad is happening on the political front?

Netanyahu faces elections in two months, his poll numbers are in the toilet, and he needs to look like a tough guy to keep his job.

Nevin73 wrote:

Stay safe, Niseg.

This first.

And second... dammit Israel, you can do better than this. Here's hoping that maybe this time it's handled well at the least.

Niseg wrote:

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .

I cannot even fathom what it has to be like to live a life where you are aware of "rocket rings" in relation to your house.

Bloo Driver wrote:
Niseg wrote:

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .

I cannot even fathom what it has to be like to live a life where you are aware of "rocket rings" in relation to your house.

QFT. Every once in a while when this area of the world gets hotter than usual I wonder what it would be like if Canada started selling rocket systems to Native Americans in the US on reservations and they started to take back their land through asymmetric warfare and terrorism. It truly is unfathomable.

Stay safe, Niseg.

Mixolyde wrote:
Bloo Driver wrote:
Niseg wrote:

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .

I cannot even fathom what it has to be like to live a life where you are aware of "rocket rings" in relation to your house.

QFT. Every once in a while when this area of the world gets hotter than usual I wonder what it would be like if Canada started selling rocket systems to Native Americans in the US on reservations and they started to take back their land through asymmetric warfare and terrorism. It truly is unfathomable.

Stay safe, Niseg.

Hey, this gives me an idea......

Spoiler:

IT IS A JOKE

Keep ya head down out there.

Mixolyde wrote:
Bloo Driver wrote:
Niseg wrote:

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .

I cannot even fathom what it has to be like to live a life where you are aware of "rocket rings" in relation to your house.

QFT. Every once in a while when this area of the world gets hotter than usual I wonder what it would be like if Canada started selling rocket systems to Native Americans in the US on reservations and they started to take back their land through asymmetric warfare and terrorism. It truly is unfathomable.

On an interesting side note. For thosee of you Canadians that remember the Oka crisis, when I was taking my artillery Forward Operating Officer's course, one of our instructors was the commander of the artillery batteries assigned there. They had every building, intersection and important landmark located on their GPS units and targeted with angle, elevation and charge required to hit it.

15 seconds doesn't actually sound like enough time to get into a bomb shelter.

Thanks everyone but I'm fine I'm practically in the 50km ring . If I understand correctly Tamron is even "safer" because he lives north of me in Rishon Letzion.

Those are the rings from the "Pikud ha Oref site". I painted an arrow to point where I live (color doesn't mean anything) and Tamron lives in the black dot above me .
IMAGE(http://niseg.moshela.com/rocket_rings.png)
Each color tells how long a person who lives in that area how much time they have to get into a bomb shelter . The people in Sderot and in the light green have 15 seconds. Ashkelon is in the cyan area and they have 30 seconds . Ashdod is in purple and they have 45 seconds (some of my co-workers live there). The last zone is Be'er Sheva with 1 minute.

I'm close to the edge of rocket range but they have yet to hit here.

The current rocket count is about 55 according to Ynet and 17 were intercepted by iron dome. On TV they said none was physically hurt and said there was minor damage. It's kind of difficult for Hamas to launch at the moment despite their motivation and "successes" ( most rockets hit open areas) . There are more planes in the sky than usual and the IDF can pinpoint launch site using Iron dome radar.

Yeah, I guess my point was that you're opening statement of "I'm fine" doesn't really equate to everything else you just explained. Not by my personal standard, I guess. I'm definitely glad that you're relatively better off than some folks, but it's personal accounts like this that really do bring the fact to the fore that our worlds are very different. I'm sorry to hear things are going sideways again.

Is this just a common state of affairs for everyone to be this aware of possible rocket attacks at any given time?

Farscry wrote:

15 seconds doesn't actually sound like enough time to get into a bomb shelter. :(

This is why they stay in and don't get out especially the children. I think the true figure in Sderot the have more like 8 seconds . Some people in the green/cyan like in Netivot don't have bomb shelters so they trust god to protect them and it's working ok so far.

This whole mess started after a bomb that hurt two soldiers, an RPG that hurt 4 soldiers (2 turned blind) and about 100 rockets and mortars on civilian population areas.

Bloo Driver wrote:

Is this just a common state of affairs for everyone to be this aware of possible rocket attacks at any given time?

People who live in range kind of get "used to it". It still cause a whole lot of psychological problems for them and their children like Post traumatic stress syndrome. I think they talked about this on the radio this morning (before the IDF "over-reacted"). Some like Ashdod, Ashkelon and Be'er Sheva have Iron dome systems so they are relatively safe. They still have to get into a shelter or a reinforced room when the siren sounds but Iron dome selectively intercepts with 80+% success rate. I think they are improving the hit rate all the time so there is almost no chance for rockets to hit a house and when they do people manage to survive somehow especially if they are in a reinforced room or bomb shelter.

It's generally a very bad idea to be outside when the rocket fall from the sky. quiet a few people lost their lives that way.

See, Niseg, you're saying things about safety and all I can think I would be in that shelter from moment one where ranges was discussed. Probably in the fetal position with soiled pants. Glad you're doing ok though and we all demand you stay safe.

Niseg wrote:

The current rocket count is about 55 according to Ynet and 17 were intercepted by iron dome. On TV they said none was physically hurt and said there was minor damage. It's kind of difficult for Hamas to launch at the moment despite their motivation and "successes" ( most rockets hit open areas) . There are more planes in the sky than usual and the IDF can pinpoint launch site using Iron dome radar.

I've bolded a couple of things in Niseg's post there because I am honestly confused. On the one hand, there's all this talk of bomb shelters and only having 8 seconds to respond, and then on the flip side, "no-one was physically hurt" and "most rockets hit open areas".

So I'm confused as to whether this is a valid threat or security theater (or more likely, both). How many people have been killed or injured in the past year by rocket attacks?

For instance, Wikipedia notes that in January of 2011...

Wikipedia[/url]]According to the Israel Security Agency's monthly summary, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip launched 17 rockets and 26 mortar shells were towards Israel in 25 separate attacks.

...of which all but 2 of which resulted in no injuries, and those two attacks injured 4 people in total.

Israel has a population of nearly 8 million. It had 384 deaths last year from traffic accidents. From what I see on Wikipedia, the deaths due to rocket attacks look to be substantially lower. Which leads me to suspect that this is far more about psy-ops than actual attacks, and that applies to both sides, Israel and Palestinian.

Looking at the BBC Website during my break, I saw that it's being reported that the leader of Hamas is dead. Interestingly, they are referring to his death as an assassination.

Demosthenes wrote:

Looking at the BBC Website during my break, I saw that it's being reported that the leader of Hamas is dead. Interestingly, they are referring to his death as an assassination.

Just like Osama.

Holy sh*t, this is really going to get ugly.

Israel Kills Hamas Leader, Instantly Posts It to YouTube

Warning: article contains embedded Youtube video of aerial footage of the strike that killed al-Jabari.

I found this particularly chilling:

Of course, the official Israeli obituary of Jabari leaves out a few rather meaningful items, like the fact that he was Israeli’s de facto partner and ally over the last several years. After Cast Lead, Israel and Hamas made a deal: the Islamic group would keep Gaza’s array of militant movements in check, and Israel would keep the aid trucks and the cash flowing. The man responsible for keeping the peace: Ahmed al-Jabari.

It worked for a while. But in recent weeks, the rockets began flying again, and Jerusalem became displeased with its “subcontractor,” as the ace Israel military observer Aluf Benn puts it. Jabari was openly warned to step it up, and then executed when he did not.

"The message was simple and clear: You failed – you’re dead. Or, as Defense Minister Ehud Barak likes to say, 'In the Middle East there is no second chance for the weak.'"

I know I sound like a broken record, but I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why we are obligated to adopt Israel's problems and accept their enemies as our own.

Podunk wrote:

Holy sh*t, this is really going to get ugly.

Israel Kills Hamas Leader, Instantly Posts It to YouTube

You stay classy, Israel.

Bloo Driver wrote:
Niseg wrote:

At least I live 2km (1.2miles) out of rocket range. They are talking about longer range rockets being launched but as far as I know the next rocket ring is 75km range (current one is about 40km) .

I cannot even fathom what it has to be like to live a life where you are aware of "rocket rings" in relation to your house.

It's kind of like living under a Red Terror Alert Level, except that there's actually a chance you're in danger.

Stay safe, Niseg.

Paleocon wrote:

I know I sound like a broken record, but I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why we are obligated to adopt Israel's problems and accept their enemies as our own.

Because having Jews there waiting for Jews is preferable to having Muslims there in the yes of fundamentalists? Because the second coming can't happen unless Israel is "whole".

Paleocon wrote:

I know I sound like a broken record, but I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why we are obligated to adopt Israel's problems and accept their enemies as our own.

You're not a broken record. America would be served best by cutting all ties with Israel and letting them figure out how to conduct their internal affairs without kowtowing to their religious crazies and conduct their foreign policy without hiding behind Uncle Sam.

If they want to be racist f*cks like a recent survey of Israelis says they do, let them. Let them be the next South Africa and get cut off from the rest of the developed world for a couple of decades.

DSGamer wrote:

Because having Jews there waiting for Jews is preferable to having Muslims there in the yes of fundamentalists? Because the second coming can't happen unless Israel is "whole".

If I knew rebuilding the temple wouldn't trigger a regional war, I would be completely behind it if only to be able to question every fundie every day why their god has so clearly forsaken them.

Operation Cloud Pillar sounds rather biblically nuclear. Perhaps Jewish military is pandering to American Christian fundamentalists?

Most wrote:

Operation Cloud Pillar sounds rather biblically nuclear. Perhaps Jewish military is pandering to American Christian fundamentalists? :D

Some claim the computer pick the name but some claim it's intentionally chosen to make people forget what war is about. I just read an article (google translated) about it. We also had an operation called "Rainbow in a cloud"( I doubt we was killed in it saw little unicorns). There was also one called "spring of youth" .

You comment actually this remind me of this part of Lewis Black - The Old Testament .

Jonman wrote:
Niseg wrote:

The current rocket count is about 55 according to Ynet and 17 were intercepted by iron dome. On TV they said none was physically hurt and said there was minor damage. It's kind of difficult for Hamas to launch at the moment despite their motivation and "successes" ( most rockets hit open areas) . There are more planes in the sky than usual and the IDF can pinpoint launch site using Iron dome radar.

I've bolded a couple of things in Niseg's post there because I am honestly confused. On the one hand, there's all this talk of bomb shelters and only having 8 seconds to respond, and then on the flip side, "no-one was physically hurt" and "most rockets hit open areas".

So I'm confused as to whether this is a valid threat or security theater (or more likely, both). How many people have been killed or injured in the past year by rocket attacks?

For instance, Wikipedia notes that in January of 2011...

Wikipedia[/url]]According to the Israel Security Agency's monthly summary, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip launched 17 rockets and 26 mortar shells were towards Israel in 25 separate attacks.

...of which all but 2 of which resulted in no injuries, and those two attacks injured 4 people in total.

Israel has a population of nearly 8 million. It had 384 deaths last year from traffic accidents. From what I see on Wikipedia, the deaths due to rocket attacks look to be substantially lower. Which leads me to suspect that this is far more about psy-ops than actual attacks, and that applies to both sides, Israel and Palestinian.

It's not that hard to explain. Rockets are statistical weapons and they have to be aimed using "simple" ballistics. The terrorists who do those launch also don't have a whole lot of time to launch the rocket and when they launch they usually get spotted. Because the rockets are hard to aim many of them it unpopulated areas.

Because in the past there was only a general idea where the rocket went each launch causes a siren to be sound in an area where it's likely to be hit. The civilians respond by taking shelter and this way the casualties are kept to a minimum. even if someone is outdoor he/she can lay on the ground and cover their head but that only protects the person from shrapnel. Despite the low hit rate the rocket can still potentially kill civilians which makes it a very effective terror weapon. This effectively disrupt the lives of people who lives in towns near the Gaza border(7-13km) and occasionally disrupt the lives of people who live in Grad rocket range (40km).

Recently the government set up about 4 Iron Dome systems which can intercept Grad rockets. The system can calculate the point of origin and point of landing and it selectively intercept rockets which hit populated area. The system can handle a fairly large number of rockets but the number of interceptor rocket is limited to about 16 per rocket battery (I'm not sure how many batteries they have in storage ). Sometimes the system can't intercept all the dangerous rockets so the operators can compensate by not intercepting rocket that will hit lower density population areas where the rockets are less likely to hit someone.

Through social engineering and advanced technology the number of casualties are minimized. That doesn't mean the rockets are not dangerous .The warning system just give enough time for people not to be around when rockets hit.

cut short ----

Edit: Before I got out of the house I heard some distant faint "booms" . When I got in the car they said 3 people who stood by a window ( took an unnecessary risk) were killed in Kiryat Malach(~purple ring). Two people were serious and A 4 year old boy were seriously wounded and and 4 people of there two infants were lightly wounded.. They also talked on the radio about a toddler that couldn't find his parents (1.5 ~ year old).

This is potentially tragic:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce

Yeah, it's clearly already costing the lives of innocent people on both sides. In addition to the Israelis killed and injured in rocket attacks, we now have:

dozens of Palestinians injured, and multiple fatalities—including a woman pregnant with twins and three children, says the local health ministry. Omar Misharawi, the 11-month-old son of BBC Arabic journalist Jihad Misharawi, was killed when shrapnel struck their home in Gaza.

And at least seven Hamas militants.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...

This whole thing just makes me sick for the innocent civilians on both sides.

I think they should divide the country into two...

Spoiler:

Reasonableville and Crazytown. Let all the regular civies live in one half, and the crazy militant nut jobs who think their religion is more important than everyone else's religion and feels the needs to use weapons to prove the point on the can live in the other half.

It's probably just going to escalate farther. We just had 3 Fajr 5 rockets getting launched at the Tel Aviv area This means that a ground based attack is inevitable. I heard on the radio this morning that they aren't planning to do "Cast Lead 2" What they are planning to do is "Operation Defensive Shield" 2 .

The effectiveness of Hamas rockets aren't that great against towns which have an Iron dome system ( I think Tel Aviv Has one too ). I've heard that 7 rockets that were shot at Be'er Sheva town center were intercepted simultaneously. Even if they shoot us with Fajr 5s we can get to the bomb shelter in 1.5 minutes easily. My guess is that the IDF will keep the Hamas combatants busy day and night for another day and push with a fresh, well trained soldiers along with Merkava 4 for cover.

My bet is that most of Hamas leaders just jumped over the border and went into Egypt.Their other option is the hospital (where they hid last time). Tomorrow the weekend start so everyone would be home . This will keep people relatively safe because they can avoid the commute to work.

As far as I understood the living room is the most dangerous room in my house. All we need to do is get out to the staircase room in the center and maybe go to the bomb shelter. The still say it's better not to be on the top two floor I'm on floor 4 out of 6~ (top one is a penthouse) so I might have to go down 1 level.

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