3DS Catch-all

necroyeti wrote:

I had heard the Super Paper Mario comparisons too, so I'm holding off on this one for now. Will wait for some definitive impressions from trusted sources in this thread. =)

I thought SPM was boring, and I don't like *any* of the Mario & Luigi games. They just feel too stripped down RPG-wise, and I always find the puzzles super tedious. Got a sinking feeling this may not be for me.

It's probably not for you.

Sticker Star is weird in that it's broken into levels like SPM. It has turn-based combat like TTYD, but you need stickers to attack, and stickers can only be used once. So far it's been kind of harrowing actually, since you have limited space to store stickers and it's easy to start to run out before reaching the end of a level.

Demyx wrote:
necroyeti wrote:

I had heard the Super Paper Mario comparisons too, so I'm holding off on this one for now. Will wait for some definitive impressions from trusted sources in this thread. =)

I thought SPM was boring, and I don't like *any* of the Mario & Luigi games. They just feel too stripped down RPG-wise, and I always find the puzzles super tedious. Got a sinking feeling this may not be for me.

It's probably not for you.

Sticker Star is weird in that it's broken into levels like SPM. It has turn-based combat like TTYD, but you need stickers to attack, and stickers can only be used once. So far it's been kind of harrowing actually, since you have limited space to store stickers and it's easy to start to run out before reaching the end of a level.

I actually really like to hear "harrowing" about an RPG. There are so many games where you just quickly grind your way out of facing any resource constraints, and then there are no more tough decisions, and combat and character-building are no longer interesting. (For me, now, anyway. I feel this way about most of the Final Fantasies, but I used to love those games.)

On the other hand I have failed more than once to get into a Super Mario RPG. I tried Mario & Luigi and maybe one of the sequels too(?? don't remember) and it wore out its welcome quickly. I guess I like serious stories and more intricate gameplay and the game I tried seemed to have neither.

Oh but how can you not like the part where they make a joke about Luigi being a loser? That's some evergreen material, right there.

grobstein wrote:

I actually really like to hear "harrowing" about an RPG. There are so many games where you just quickly grind your way out of facing any resource constraints, and then there are no more tough decisions, and combat and character-building are no longer interesting. (For me, now, anyway. I feel this way about most of the Final Fantasies, but I used to love those games.)

Keep in mind that I, personally, have a really low bar for "harrowing." I'm the sort that refuses to use any resource unless I already have a stack of 99 and can buy more in any town, so being forced to use stickers (some of which you have no idea if you'll ever get any more of) is forcing me to play this game really differently.

But I'm pretty sure no matter how you play the game, running out of stickers before the end of a level is a real issue, considering I've gone into levels with near-full sticker sheets, wasted very little, picked up everything I saw and came out of the level with only a couple left.

Demyx wrote:
grobstein wrote:

I actually really like to hear "harrowing" about an RPG. There are so many games where you just quickly grind your way out of facing any resource constraints, and then there are no more tough decisions, and combat and character-building are no longer interesting. (For me, now, anyway. I feel this way about most of the Final Fantasies, but I used to love those games.)

Keep in mind that I, personally, have a really low bar for "harrowing." I'm the sort that refuses to use any resource unless I already have a stack of 99 and can buy more in any town, so being forced to use stickers (some of which you have no idea if you'll ever get any more of) is forcing me to play this game really differently.

But I'm pretty sure no matter how you play the game, running out of stickers before the end of a level is a real issue, considering I've gone into levels with near-full sticker sheets, wasted very little, picked up everything I saw and came out of the level with only a couple left.

Thanks for elaborating. This does sound cool to me, but for now I plan to play Etrian Odyssey III till Persona 4 comes out. . . .

A lot of reviewers are saying that they're skipping combat as a result. That seems like that's pretty bad for an RPG. Grinding isn't fun, but typically RPGs reward combat with something more than you lost in combat (loot, XP, etc.). If all you have are stickers and comparable value isn't gained from fighting so then you avoid combat, I would say that sounds like a broken mechanic.

Demyx wrote:
grobstein wrote:

I actually really like to hear "harrowing" about an RPG. There are so many games where you just quickly grind your way out of facing any resource constraints, and then there are no more tough decisions, and combat and character-building are no longer interesting. (For me, now, anyway. I feel this way about most of the Final Fantasies, but I used to love those games.)

Keep in mind that I, personally, have a really low bar for "harrowing." I'm the sort that refuses to use any resource unless I already have a stack of 99 and can buy more in any town, so being forced to use stickers (some of which you have no idea if you'll ever get any more of) is forcing me to play this game really differently.

But I'm pretty sure no matter how you play the game, running out of stickers before the end of a level is a real issue, considering I've gone into levels with near-full sticker sheets, wasted very little, picked up everything I saw and came out of the level with only a couple left.

If I didn't know any better, the whole conserving items and trying to grab everything that isn't nailed down sounds almost point n' click adventuring.

DSGamer wrote:

A lot of reviewers are saying that they're skipping combat as a result. That seems like that's pretty bad for an RPG. Grinding isn't fun, but typically RPGs reward combat with something more than you lost in combat (loot, XP, etc.). If all you have are stickers and comparable value isn't gained from fighting so then you avoid combat, I would say that sounds like a broken mechanic.

You get money from combat and sometimes stickers, but it's probably not as much as you lose from combat.

I guess part of my problem is trying to fight everything I come across >_> In fact, it wasn't until you posted that that I realized maybe I shouldn't be.

I'm not sure if avoiding combat is necessarily bad for an RPG. For one thing, there is forced combat, both in story and because enemies will get in your way and jump you, so it's not like you can just avoid all the combat. For another thing, there's also a definite puzzle aspect going on, so I guess part of the enjoyment depends on whether that interests you.

shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:
grobstein wrote:

I actually really like to hear "harrowing" about an RPG. There are so many games where you just quickly grind your way out of facing any resource constraints, and then there are no more tough decisions, and combat and character-building are no longer interesting. (For me, now, anyway. I feel this way about most of the Final Fantasies, but I used to love those games.)

Keep in mind that I, personally, have a really low bar for "harrowing." I'm the sort that refuses to use any resource unless I already have a stack of 99 and can buy more in any town, so being forced to use stickers (some of which you have no idea if you'll ever get any more of) is forcing me to play this game really differently.

But I'm pretty sure no matter how you play the game, running out of stickers before the end of a level is a real issue, considering I've gone into levels with near-full sticker sheets, wasted very little, picked up everything I saw and came out of the level with only a couple left.

If I didn't know any better, the whole conserving items and trying to grab everything that isn't nailed down sounds almost point n' click adventuring.

Actually there have been a number of reviews that have compared it to an old school adventure game. I don't particularly care. If it's fun I'm interested. I don't need another Mario RPG. Plenty of those exist. If it's fun I'll give it a look.

Demyx wrote:

I'm not sure if avoiding combat is necessarily bad for an RPG. For one thing, there is forced combat, both in story and because enemies will get in your way and jump you, so it's not like you can just avoid all the combat. For another thing, there's also a definite puzzle aspect going on, so I guess part of the enjoyment depends on whether that interests you.

I don't know about past Paper Mario games, but I'm pretty sure in Super Mario RPG and the M&L series you can avoid enemies running around the field screen.

Demyx wrote:
necroyeti wrote:

I had heard the Super Paper Mario comparisons too, so I'm holding off on this one for now. Will wait for some definitive impressions from trusted sources in this thread. =)

I thought SPM was boring, and I don't like *any* of the Mario & Luigi games. They just feel too stripped down RPG-wise, and I always find the puzzles super tedious. Got a sinking feeling this may not be for me.

It's probably not for you.

Sticker Star is weird in that it's broken into levels like SPM. It has turn-based combat like TTYD, but you need stickers to attack, and stickers can only be used once. So far it's been kind of harrowing actually, since you have limited space to store stickers and it's easy to start to run out before reaching the end of a level.

The one thing I noticed in the Giant Bomb QL that is making me hesitant is the fact that there is no incentive to fight anything. No xp or character growth outside of story progression makes it seem like it's better to just avoid all possible encounters in order to preserve your sticker library. That doesn't sound fun.

I'm glad so many of the rest of you are finding lots of good stuff to play on the 3DS, but Sticker Star was the first game since Mario 3D Land that interested me for 3DS. I would probably sell the thing for a Vita if I didn't know I'd immediately regret it when Smash Bros. and the next 3D Mario came out.

Edit: Tannhauser'd on the combat evasion thing, but yeah.

Hearing the resource issues I'm curious if this might have been better billed as a Paper Luigi's Mansion with survival horror emphasis.

Bah-dum-psh?

I tend to find that harrowing gameplay invigorating, though, and is one of the reasons I really enjoyed I Am Alive flaws and all. Maybe I should give this game a look sooner than I planned.

DSGamer wrote:

A lot of reviewers are saying that they're skipping combat as a result. That seems like that's pretty bad for an RPG. Grinding isn't fun, but typically RPGs reward combat with something more than you lost in combat (loot, XP, etc.). If all you have are stickers and comparable value isn't gained from fighting so then you avoid combat, I would say that sounds like a broken mechanic.

Well, different people like different things. I haven't played the game yet, but if some people are avoiding the combat while other people think it's superlative, that might just mean it's a new and different kind of system. (It sounds a little like Sting's Riviera, though.)

EDIT: and see better insights from the people actually playing the game

If nothing else, the sticker system sounds interesting, and it's been a long time since I heard about a game where the basic mechanics of combat actually sounded interesting in and of themselves. I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of Sticker Star.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

If nothing else, the sticker system sounds interesting, and it's been a long time since I heard about a game where the basic mechanics of combat actually sounded interesting in and of themselves. I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of Sticker Star.

I think the sticker system seems very interesting. That's why it's disappointing that avoiding combat seems to be the most effective approach.

Only if you fight all the enemies in an area, something I only did even in the first Mario RPG if I wanted to level up. It seems in this game the only reward is money, and unless you end up needing lots of cash then there should be no cause to have to fight everyone.

You get lots of cash at the end of levels. There's definitely more of an emphasis on exploring and puzzle solving, though I enjoy the combat too.

I've read that you want to do more combat to collect coins for boss battles. You use coins in combat to buy more actions per turn, and some bosses require at least two actions per turn, so it's better to have a hefty number of coins on hand.

It's an interesting way to incentivize combat without the tired, boring conventions of experience levels and skill trees.

Maybe it's just because it's early in the game, but the fee you need to buy extra actions per turn seems very small compared to the amount of coins you get just from the end of levels.

Bearing in mind that the additional cost for those extra actions is, of course, the very stickers that are in such apparent high demand.

In case it hasn't been said yet so far: every sticker represents a single attack (a stomp, a hammer swing, a fire flower, etc), and the sticker is used up in the process... AND THERE IS NO GENERIC "ATTACK" IN THE GAME. I don't know what would happen if you literally ran out of stickers in your book during combat -- would you get an emergency basic sticker? Or would the game end with you dying?

Demyx, your comments a few posts ago (re: harrowing) are very similar to my own, and it's honestly caused me a bit of angst in some of these levels, worrying about my sticker supply dwindling VERY low -- to the point where I was already starting to avoid some combat (perhaps unnecessarily)... not because it was difficult or boring or whatever... but because I was honestly worried I was going to run too low on stickers and be unable to make it back out alive.

Nintendo evidently had some sort of diorama contest that I found to be pretty entertain.

CAUTION: Link goes to the book face!

I played about 3 hours so far. Also, I never played a Paper Mario game before but was a big fan of Bowser's Inside Story

- This game is not what I thought it would be like. It's not really an RPG as there isn't much progression or story. It's sort of a relaxing Mario platformer with an open world, turn based timing combat, an interesting inventory system as a replacement for character growth and some point and click adventure puzzle solving thrown in.
- I'm early on so this could either be a major plus or a major negative but this game doesn't really explain anything. I've been pining for post-N64 Nintendo to give the player some respect but this game is so unique that it's really strange that systems and current objectives are not explained. I mean, they don't even explain how the timing based battle works.
- The art is phenomenal as the paper motif is fully embraced. So many nice little touches.
- When you play in 2D there is AA which makes the image quality great. I like the DoF effect when you pull stickers as well.
- The Nintendo polish is there. An example: You get shiny versions of stickers which are more powerful and when you move your 3DS around the sticker foil reflects like it would in real life.
- As some posters noted above, the incentive to enter battles devalue if you are good at the game. If you are good at the timing based combat you can rack up a lot of coins lowering the need to battle. I'm early though so this might change. I've also been battling anyway since I find it so enjoyable.
- Writing is witty and charming.

I'm really digging it so far even though it's not what I was expecting. World 1-5 had a great sequence that put a big smile on my face.

Merphle, I read some players saying that if you are running low on stickers in combat, basic jumps and hammers will drop. I've had basic jumps and hammers drop in combat before so I suspect that's true.

BNice, I have to agree that it's not really much of an RPG. I think it's probably closer to Super Paper Mario than TTYD. And it is interesting that they don't explain the timing of attacks. Having played both TTYD and SPM, I was doing all the timing-actions automatically and didn't even notice that they never tell you to do that.

In case anyone is wondering, for jumps you press A at the moment of impact, and for hammers you press A when the hammer twinkles. Flowers seem to require presses at the moment of throwing, but I haven't really got it down. Some of the more exotic ones like bombs and sombreros, I'm not sure about.

I also have a complaint having to do with World 1-5 which I'll probably have to write up later because it requires some explanation.

Do we think Nintendo left explaining that stuff out because it more fits the mold of an old school adventure game? A lot of reviews suggest that this is a game Nintendo intended you to poke and prod at. Right down to puzzles in the world.

Demyx wrote:

And it is interesting that they don't explain the timing of attacks. Having played both TTYD and SPM, I was doing all the timing-actions automatically and didn't even notice that they never tell you to do that.

Maybe my memory is fuzzy but I don't recall the M&L games or Super Mario RPG really giving much in the way of tutorials on the various weapon "timed hits" aside from the initial jump/punch attacks.

shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:

And it is interesting that they don't explain the timing of attacks. Having played both TTYD and SPM, I was doing all the timing-actions automatically and didn't even notice that they never tell you to do that.

Maybe my memory is fuzzy but I don't recall the M&L games or Super Mario RPG really giving much in the way of tutorials on the various weapon "timed hits" aside from the initial jump/punch attacks.

The Mario and Luigi games explain things, but for my money they were too wordy, spending hours on that stuff.

You can also block on defense if you time it properly which is something I didn't realize for a while

DSGamer wrote:

Do we think Nintendo left explaining that stuff out because it more fits the mold of an old school adventure game? A lot of reviews suggest that this is a game Nintendo intended you to poke and prod at. Right down to puzzles in the world.

I'm not sure but it does feel very old school.

Demyx wrote:

I also have a complaint having to do with World 1-5 which I'll probably have to write up later because it requires some explanation.

:O curious to read this later.

World 1-5 complaint, spoilers in case anyone really cares about spoilers in a frickin' Mario game :p

Spoiler:

When I got to the final boss, I tried to damage it with my stickers, but the stickers were doing very little damage compared to what they normally do. I realized there was probably some trick but I felt like I had enough stickers to win and didn't want to go back through the level so I soldiered on. I defeated the boss with literally my next-to-last sticker.

After the fight, the crown was like "You used all your stickers, there was a better way to do this!" I realize that the answer was probably to use the scissors. But the scissors cost a lot of money, take up a lot of room, and there were several possible specials to take into that level. I didn't notice any indication before entering the level that the scissors were a good thing to take. So my options on hitting the boss were to spend all my stickers in a frustrating fight, or quit the level, buy scissors, and traipse all the way back to the boss.

It's not pretty design. If I missed a huge clue to take the scissors with me, let me know. When I reach 2-5 I'll probably just look up what sticker they expect you to have.

Demyx wrote:

World 1-5 complaint, spoilers in case anyone really cares about spoilers in a frickin' Mario game :p

Spoiler:

When I got to the final boss, I tried to damage it with my stickers, but the stickers were doing very little damage compared to what they normally do. I realized there was probably some trick but I felt like I had enough stickers to win and didn't want to go back through the level so I soldiered on. I defeated the boss with literally my next-to-last sticker.

After the fight, the crown was like "You used all your stickers, there was a better way to do this!" I realize that the answer was probably to use the scissors. But the scissors cost a lot of money, take up a lot of room, and there were several possible specials to take into that level. I didn't notice any indication before entering the level that the scissors were a good thing to take. So my options on hitting the boss were to spend all my stickers in a frustrating fight, or quit the level, buy scissors, and traipse all the way back to the boss.

It's not pretty design. If I missed a huge clue to take the scissors with me, let me know. When I reach 2-5 I'll probably just look up what sticker they expect you to have.

Ahhh, yeah that happened to me as well. That is a prime example of the sort of point & click adventure nature of this game. How were we even supposed to know to use the scissors? I also don't even know what happens if I use scissors in a regular fight. Can I get them back somehow? Also, the dialogue from the head goomba was hilarious.

But that is actually 1-6. 1-5 is the optional level leading up to the first castle. I was talking about when

Spoiler:

you set off that crazy chain reaction that keeps going and going :lol:

BNice wrote:

Ahhh, yeah that happened to me as well. That is a prime example of the sort of point & click adventure nature of this game. How were we even supposed to know to use the scissors? I also don't even know what happens if I use scissors in a regular fight. Can I get them back somehow? Also, the dialogue from the head goomba was hilarious.

The boss is made from a ton of goombas all stuck together, so you're probably supposed to use scissors to cut them apart.

If you use up one of your special stickers, you can check the window on the left side of the screen in the area where you make stickers out of objects. They'll sell the objects.

Spoiler:

you set off that crazy chain reaction that keeps going and going :lol:

Oh yeah, that was great!

I also want to work the word "glittastrophe" into conversation.