Diablo III Catch-All 2.0

Farscry wrote:

Well, for me, the issue isn't that diminishing returns occur. It's that (as a primarily solo player who would rather beat up monsters for items than shop for them on an auction house) I hit that point far, FAR earlier than I did with Diablo 1 or 2.

I can certainly relate to your disappointment (at least at launch), and I think it all basically boiled down to the game being too hard to "beat" without using the AH. Launch inferno was so hard that trying to finish it without the AH would require an obscene amount of time. From my perspective, the key mistake was placing that "wall" before you hit the "end" of the game - it seems like a minor thing, but psychologically it felt really bad.

I think now, with Paragon levels and a nerfed monster power 0, they've nailed the difficulty curve. I bet you can play through MP0 now in a reasonable timeframe without ever needing the AH.

gore wrote:

I think now, with Paragon levels and a nerfed monster power 0, they've nailed the difficulty curve. I bet you can play through MP0 now in a reasonable timeframe without ever needing the AH.

I should try it again then. That's one of the reasons I haven't really gone off on the game; because in spite of my complaints, everything that it needs to be more to my liking is in place, but needed tweaking/updating (as someone else said, Diablo 2 was good, but it was the expansion that really kicked everything up a notch).

Queueball wrote:

I don't know if it's earlier. Remember that D2 only had 3 levels of difficulty and D3 has 4. I don't remember where they stated it, but inferno was supposed to be harder than hell in D2. I die a lot in nightmare and hell, but it's never felt unpassable.

"Earlier" is relative; it's a combination of progression through the game, character level, and time invested.

I can play Diablo 2 and not feel like I'm plateauing the same way until fairly well into Hell difficulty, because even when I may not be finding things that are significantly more powerful, I can find things that are compelling "sidegrades". And there's also a lot of time played by that point too.

With Diablo 3, I wasn't concerned about Inferno because I viewed it as a bonus difficulty. I started plateauing in Nightmare difficulty, as drops became less and less worthwhile (what upgrades I did find were limited to incremental stat increases but nothing more interesting). Then in Hell difficulty, due to the plateaued itemization/drop-rate, I brickwalled so badly and got so bored that I eventually had to resort to the AH. So finishing Hell felt cheapened to me afterward, and I wished I hadn't bought gear on the AH.

I like the crafters for getting upgrades, because that's pretty similar to how gambling for items worked in D2 (only a lot less random, unfortunately).

But anyway, the Paragon levels are (IMO) an awesome improvement, and I'm looking forward to messing with the game again with this whole Monster Power thing (I mostly played Diablo 2 with "/players 4" running).

And, last night. Another legendary. This time an amulet.

Xephirian-Amulet

It rolled fairly nicely for my Witchdoctor. A bit of intelligence. A bit of dexterity. A bonus to my mana pool. 39% MF/GF. Unfortunately, its a a 15% DPS decrease over my self-found rare amulet. Still, maybe I'll use it early Act 1/MP1 farming runs.

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

Farscry wrote:

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

I'm not sure if I've been imagining this, but it sure feels like blue and yellow mobs have been stacking up more frequently since. 1.04.

Hollowheel wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I played a bit last night, and I swear they must've upped the monster population density. That alone makes it a hell of a lot more fun (pun fully intended) with much more chaos and slaughter going on.

I'm not sure if I've been imagining this, but it sure feels like blue and yellow mobs have been stacking up more frequently since. 1.04.

That seemed to be the case last night too. And I loved it.

Definitely felt more like Diablo 2's frantic and ravenous hordes of monsters to deal with. I even had to drink a health potion once. And it was on normal difficulty (MP1 setting though).

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

I don't think so. Or at least, they haven't advertised it.

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

Don't think so.. could be because things take longer to kill it just feels like there's more happening since they aren't dying as fast anymore and if you're doing some sort of kiting you are running into even more mobs. I know when I foolishly tried MP5 on patch day I thought the monsters would never end. If you hit one of those spawner type enemies and you can't kill things fast enough you get overwhelmed.

strangederby wrote:

I've not played Diablo but I read this and wondered how truthful it was: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/05/editorial-diablo-3-auction-house-do-not-post/

From the article: "Some will get everything they want from a single playthrough, others when they hit sixty, and others when they have the finest loot and have beaten the toughest enemies. " The first group were my friends, I'm in the second group, and I don't know anyone in the third since I'm playing other games. Yes, D3 was fun, and it's well oiled and changing abilities on the fly is a min/max adaptive wonder to behold, but the drop system is a deal-breaker for me.

You have to play through the game once on {ableist slur} difficulty, once on easy (Nightmare?), then finally get to play real Diablo (Hell?), and advancing to hard (Inferno?) if you can pound your brain up against a hard wall enough times. For your first three playthroughs, the items that drop for you are always just a few levels lower than what you are, so they are indeed useless, and you've got to play the Market. Now, if you LOVE playing markets, D3 just might be the best game ever for you. There's a Elysium article from...July?...where he explains the schadenfreude at finding an uber-sword-of-wonder for only $Xk gold and buying it instantly and selling it a few hours later for $XXXk gold.

I may have enjoyed that some years back, but it's not what I want to be doing anymore when I load an ACTION RPG. I enjoyed D1 and D2 for the spectacle and randomness and finding that nice new something every once in a while to really stick it to the man (Diablo). Diablo 3 doesn't let you find items that are actually good until you're playing on Inferno, Act II+, which means investing...30+ (?)...hours in, and at the point when you've probably already gotten pretty sick of the environments. So ya, Diablo 3 is kind of broken. Best with friends, like L4D.

NOTE: I have NOT played since they added Monster Power. I am open to the possibility that the first 20 hours of the game might not suck if using that, but haven't the inclination to verify.

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

That's weird, you sure you always have 5 NV stacks before looking for him? I have 10 keys already, he drops one like every other run for me : p

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

fangblackbone wrote:

Hmm, does that mean that MP has borrowed another feature of "/players 8" in that it increases monster population?

No, I was noticing the difference even before I figured out how to enable the Monster Power thing. I think it's more of a tuning thing they changed in some patch(es?) since I last played much.

And it was seriously noticeable; the general monster packs were more densely populated than I recall, and their low density was actually one of my complaints about the game when it launched. I found a disappointing lack of the craziness from Diablo 2. Now I don't.

I would say the feeling of there being more monsters or larger mobs comes into play when you are more under powered. The more powerful you are the more a mob feels like it'll overwhelm you. Once I figure how to handle mobs (and/or find better items), sometimes it feels like I can't find them fast enough.

Queueball wrote:

I would say the feeling of there being more monsters or larger mobs comes into play when you are more under powered. The more powerful you are the more a mob feels like it'll overwhelm you. Once I figure how to handle mobs (and/or find better items), sometimes it feels like I can't find them fast enough.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You appear to not be understanding what I'm saying, however.

I wander into a spot on the map, and now see maybe 20 enemies barreling at me when back in June that number would've been 10.

I don't know how much more plainly I can state this.

The point being, the monster density seems to be improved, which is a good thing. I think what's happening is that either more packs or bigger packs are being spawned, and/or they are spawning more closely together (I'm seeing more adds joining the fray than I recall too).

Farscry, why do you hate the game so much?

iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

It took me at least 10 runs at MP3 to get the plans, but keys seem to be dropping for me at least 1 every 3 or 4 runs. Of course I say this missing an act 2 key that i've been trying to get for a few days.

The only upside to it though is at least act 3 is probably the most fun act of the game (IMHO). Easy and quick to get 5 stacks of NV and head straight to stonefort.. if you want to farm more, you can keep going down the dungeon in the keep or the end dungeon (forgot what its called).

Carlbear95 wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

30 second respawn times are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm really pissed the infernal machine plans didn't drop the first time I tried. Farming act 4 is f*cking terrible. And, if I hadn't played with people that had gotten the key, I would be convinced that the act 3 keywarden is bugged. I've farmed that about 15 times now at either MP2 or MP3 and I haven't gotten it to drop.

It took me at least 10 runs at MP3 to get the plans, but keys seem to be dropping for me at least 1 every 3 or 4 runs. Of course I say this missing an act 2 key that i've been trying to get for a few days.

The only upside to it though is at least act 3 is probably the most fun act of the game (IMHO). Easy and quick to get 5 stacks of NV and head straight to stonefort.. if you want to farm more, you can keep going down the dungeon in the keep or the end dungeon (forgot what its called).

I really like act 3 as well, the middle part. The beginning and the crater don't thrill me at all.

Dakuna wrote:

I really like act 3 as well, the middle part. The beginning and the crater don't thrill me at all.

Yeah that's the only act that really feels Diablo-y, the keep depths and all that. The crater is fun when you get huge waves of spiders, but the other enemies are just annoying.

Mex wrote:

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

MP0 has a 5% chance to drop a key.

I know when I foolishly tried MP5 on patch day I thought the monsters would never end. If you hit one of those spawner type enemies and you can't kill things fast enough you get overwhelmed.

Oh yeah. That nearly happened to me on launch day too. I started a new WD on mp10 and the wretched queens had to be focused as much as I could or I would get overrun. And that is only at character level 3 or 4.

Lotsa fun though!

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Mex wrote:

I don't think he drops keys at MP0 but he definitely drops them even at MP1

MP0 has a 5% chance to drop a key.

Huh, just as I was going to post that I just found a key on MP0 : )

Just got Paragon Level 40, I'll admit it's getting... a bit boring. Feeling kind of mind numbing...

Also apparently this is the "Epic" armor set for Witch doctors or whatever, Zunimassa's set:
IMAGE(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/899666faceset.jpg)

Ummm... I think it looks awful, looks designed to appeal to a 12 year old, or maybe inspired by Flea from the RHCP :/

If it's a witch doctor what's with all the squiggly gold lines and stuff, any of the other old designs look better and more appropiate : p

IMAGE(http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/122/1221557/diablo-iii-20120325013832604-000.jpg)

Mex...Vanishing potions, I think all of the Witchdoctor Helms look terrible. And that set does nothing for my build.

So I just got back into D3 after some colleagues were talking about the new patch.

I am not sure if rolling through the paragon levels intrigues me all that much. Is there a leveling group, similar to our WoW groups? I would much prefer to roll one of my newbies in a group of 4. I never did much co-op for my Witchdoctor, and almost none in D2.

I'm hitting a bit of a wall in Inferno (big surprise) with my WD. I'm in Act 2, and elite packs are giving me trouble. I guess my resistance is too low, but I'm having a difficult time finding quality information about builds and gear. Ideally, I want a build that uses pets, because that's what's fun for me.

Here's my profile. I would appreciate any advice.

Aristophan wrote:

I'm hitting a bit of a wall in Inferno (big surprise) with my WD. I'm in Act 2, and elite packs are giving me trouble. I guess my resistance is too low, but I'm having a difficult time finding quality information about builds and gear. Ideally, I want a build that uses pets, because that's what's fun for me.

Here's my profile. I would appreciate any advice.

I'm not very good at this game but my 2 pesos:
If you want to keep your Magic Find high, first step is to pimp your templar:
Get him a Sunkeeper weapon with like 45% Magic Find and rings with 18% MF, and an amulet with 40%, stuff with Vitality and All Resistance is second, everything else is just a bonus.
If you max his Magic Find, it gives you like 30% extra MF, and this frees you to replace your gear with non-Magic Find stuff, which is pretty cheap now, and with all vitality or all resistance gear he becomes a nice extra tank (Mine is like at 100k hp)

Definitely try Spirit Walk, experiment with the different runes it has, and add Spirit Vessel to your passive skills, honestly Jungle Fortitude isn't that great anymore and Zombie Handler isn't that great either compared to a 2nd chance at living.

Also buy a helmet with a Socket because if you pop an amethyst in there it gives you a lot of extra life, and definitely time to replace your shoulders with something that has a lot of Vitality+All Resistance. Also buy a weapon with a socket for either extra Life On Hit (which is still useful on Witch Doctors) or extra critical damage to kill faster. Your damage is a bit low but maybe experiment with popping a few amethysts in your chest to see how your survivability goes up.

I'd also give Mass Confusion a chance because while it's fairly useless vs mob packs, it can help out a lot against elite guys...

I think your HPs look low. Since I 1.05 (maybe 1.04), WD pets get a big benefit from your Vital/Life. If you're going with a pet focussed build you need to have HPs to beef them up as well. At a minimum swap some of your intel gems with vital gems to give you some extra HPs. As painful as it may seem, you probably can gain a lot of dps and HPs by swapping out your non-level 60 legendaries with level 60-63 yellows with INT/Vital/Resists and probably won't pay more than 10k-15k per piece (if even that much).

I've never used sacrifice, but by having both summon dogs and sacrifice, you're effectively limiting 2 of your spells to a 45 second CD that have no other effect. If you like using sacrifice you could drop one of your passive skills for Circle of Life. With your health globe range increase, you should be summoning them quite frequently assuming you're able to kill things fast enough. Won't do you any good for bosses, but elite packs should be ok.

Other option would be to work Mass Confusion into your rotation with the Deevolution rune. Similar to Circle of Life, you can summon up dogs from dead bodies and you get a pretty good CC ability that works on most elite packs (not sure on bosses).

Last, I hate any "must have" skill, but spirit walk is your get out of jail free card. With low HPs/resists, getting caught in any elite effect is going to be the end of you. You need to be able to have an ability to get out of poison/frozen/jailed and get to open ground. You can rune it with a heal or more dps.

Thanks for the feedback. I figured I needed to switch to Spirit Walk, and I'll try out some of your other suggestions tonight.

Aristophan wrote:

I'm hitting a bit of a wall in Inferno (big surprise) with my WD. I'm in Act 2, and elite packs are giving me trouble. I guess my resistance is too low, but I'm having a difficult time finding quality information about builds and gear. Ideally, I want a build that uses pets, because that's what's fun for me.

Here's my profile. I would appreciate any advice.

Your vitality is way too low. Having a lot of orange things is nice but you're only getting vit from your ring. You have life% on some things but that doesn't help that much when your life is low to begin with. Just for comparison, you can look at the gear on my witch doctor that made it through post-1.0.5 inferno with relative ease. There's really nothing special about my gear but I've got 10k more hp than you do. That's all self-found gear and nothing real special (the weapon is an upgrade since I beat inferno, I only had about 21k dps when I finished).

I went on a spending spree at the AH, and got more equipment with resist and vitality. I also switched to spirit walk and I'm using Circle of Life to generate my doggies. Spirit walk has already saved my hide many times, and I was able to make good progress without dying. Thanks for the help!