The Walking Dead - TV Catch-All for Fans of the Comic

Since the original Walking Dead thread is not specific, and the non-comic book readers have split off, I thought I would create a thread that specifically allows for discussion that accounts for what we have read in the comics.

This means we can discuss the merits of David Morrissey being cast as The Governor and Danai Gurira as Michonne.

We are also free to speculate how they will adapt the storylines from the comic that we know and love to the TV show.

Just rushed through the 97 issues in a week.
It's a great story.
Having seen the two seasons first and read the comics afterwards, I really like the decisions taken for the show.

I'll be the first to agree the pacing of the show is not great, but I understand now that the comic groups 5 issues into chapters. I'm not sure that two chapters should always fit into one season,but a parallel adaptation of the story in 10 - 12 episodes will make the Prison/Governor chapter a bit rushed.

Also, I'm annoyed by how Carl is portrayed in the show vs how normal he starts out in the comic book. Carl is a medium to Rick as a character forced to act as a leader. Carl becomes a fleshed out character once the Prison / Governor chapter is finished. This will roughly translate into the 4th season. People will be out of their minds if the producers don't change "where's Carl now?" fixation. It will be very difficult to transition from "that annoying kid that could not grasp the apocalyptic situation around him" to the toughened, Dark Tower-like Gunslinger attitude he needs to have once Carl and Rick are on their own.

I really liked how Shane's character was elaborated in these two seasons rather can kill him as early as they did in the comics.

Sorry for double post; just wanted to ask what the mechanics / rules for the thread are:
Do we assume everyone participating in this thread has read all 97 issues, or should we tag as spoiler all story-lines beyond Hershel's farm?

I would assume people have read all 97, but I could also understand if some are waiting for TPB's instead of singles. When I finished the TPB's, either pulp or in the bundles via the iPad, I just started reading them in singles.

For the most part, this would be a good place to discuss where we are so far, and what might be on the horizon for the TV show. I'd say everything through the prison ought to be open for discussion.

My gut tell me that carl is going to get killed off sooner or later. At his age, he is going to look awfully older next season, and even more by season 4. Maybe they do a flip, and kill Carl, but keep Lori. I will say, he is the weak link to the show in terms of acting, and I assume it hampers the writers.

It's tough, because he does become more central to the them of the story as it progresses. But maybe Lori's transformation in the wake of a Carl death could be mined for even more storylines.

I think the writers put the extra time with Shane to good use, and it provided the contrast we needed to see. I think that will explain part of just how much more serious sh*t gets.

Jayhawker wrote:

For the most part, this would be a good place to discuss where we are so far, and what might be on the horizon for the TV show. I'd say everything through the prison ought to be open for discussion.

I'd say that's fair. I read them in TPB's, and haven't read the last one yet.

I hope they don't switch Carl & Lori's places at the end of the prison story. As much trouble as Carl has been, having a crying baby would be worse. Instead of Carl never being in the house, the baby would cry at the worst possible times.

I really looking forward to TV Lori getting killed, so I don't want that to be messed with! Keeping Carl's character as written by Kirkman would be best; he becomes really interesting. And scary.

spider_j wrote:

I really looking forward to TV Lori getting killed, so I don't want that to be messed with! Keeping Carl's character as written by Kirkman would be best; he becomes really interesting. And scary.

I agree. But remember Walt from season one of Lost. He was going to be a key part of the plot, but the dude grew 6 inches by the time season two came up. TWD will be rolling into season three, but still be less than a year into the plot. That is really, really hard to manage with kids that are just about to hit puberty.

So that's where Carl keeps wandering off to? To tape his scenes before he hits puberty for future seasons?

From the main TV show thread.

DSGamer wrote:
McChuck wrote:

I saw a brief discussion about the herd. I think Gaald explained how it works pretty well, but DSGamer said it's not a thing in the comics. Totally a thing though by the comics definition, that was not a hred. I won't say more here. I can point out specifically what I'm referring to in the TV show/Comics crossover thread if needed.

That's what I meant. It's a *thing* in the comics, but not as explicitly as in the show. And not the same way.

I really fail to see how the herd in the comics and TV show are any different. A herd is simply a cluster of zombies on the move. I don't think it matters if there is 100 or 2000. But once they cluster, they continue to move forward, picking up members along the way.

I thought the show pretty much showed exactly that.

Interesting. Andrea and Michonne find Woodbury. Not only that, but before they know about the prison. I wonder if Rick will still end up captured and in the hands of the Governor. Also, no signs of finding any survivors in the prison but it could happen. Lori and Rick are talking about if Rick's a killer. Presumably, that's about Shane but it could be when Rick shoots that one guy that was trying to kick them out during a zombie attack.

Interesting. I was looking at picking up Rise of the Governor last night, as they have it in paperback now. It included an excerpt to the next novel, The Road to Woodbury.

So a couple thoughts now that I know this thread even exists.

#1 - Was anyone else bummed that not only did they kill off Dale, but then they turned Herschel into the new Dale?

I can understand deviating from the comic. But I didn't love the idea of "we really need a guy with one leg on crutches." It worked in the comic because Andrea loved him and it created an interesting dynamic where he was always in awe of why she would love him, etc. while he was falling apart physically. I hope they're not planning a love interest for Herschel to try and recreate that dynamic.

#2 - I still think the guy cast to play the Governor doesn't look like someone capable of the things The Governor is capable of in the comic, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

#3 - It was satisfying that rather than spending 2 or 3 episodes with Rick going all emo over the decisions he needed to make we go right into clearing out the prison and even killing someone to preemptively protect the group. That's an important part of Rick's arc as a character and they dragged it out in season 2. Season 3 seems to be handling it better.

DSGamer wrote:

So a couple thoughts now that I know this thread even exists.

#1 - Was anyone else bummed that not only did they kill off Dale, but then they turned Herschel into the new Dale?

I can understand deviating from the comic. But I didn't love the idea of "we really need a guy with one leg on crutches."

I don't see this as a need to have a "legless guy" role, but more that it is an interesting way to show the lengths survival in this world will drive people towards. Instead of a terribly awkward "Andrea loves Dale" situation, we have Hershel being left even more of a liability in terms of being able to fight, run, even just get around, while being needed for his medical knowledge and his parental influence on Beth and Maggie.

Atras wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

So a couple thoughts now that I know this thread even exists.

#1 - Was anyone else bummed that not only did they kill off Dale, but then they turned Herschel into the new Dale?

I can understand deviating from the comic. But I didn't love the idea of "we really need a guy with one leg on crutches."

I don't see this as a need to have a "legless guy" role, but more that it is an interesting way to show the lengths survival in this world will drive people towards. Instead of a terribly awkward "Andrea loves Dale" situation, we have Hershel being left even more of a liability in terms of being able to fight, run, even just get around, while being needed for his medical knowledge and his parental influence on Beth and Maggie.

I also think that they want to set the precedent about chopping off a limb to stop the virus.

I was about to complain about the lack of Axel in the TV show, but after visiting the wiki I discovered that that axel is indeed in the show, but now looks like a scrawny weasel with no big burly beard.

The wiki had this to say "In the TV series, he appears to have some kind of country-style, whereas his comic counterpart was more of a biker. "

oh well.

I was really looking forward to a more comic-like Axel too, you follow me?

I like the way that they are retooling parts comic to create the same stresses and issues in the TV show, such as the alteration and quicker resolution to the Dexter and Andrew analogues, and
replacement of Dale with Herschel.

I wonder about the way Rick's "breakdown" as leader is going to dealt with; it seems to me that his brutal actions are met with more grudging "it had to be done" respect in the TV show than they were in the comic. The lack of Tyreese as another alpha male in the group and the absence of Dale's humanising influence changes the group dynamic so much that the same approach wouldn't ring true.

spider_j wrote:

The lack of Tyreese as another alpha male in the group and the absence of Dale's humanising influence changes the group dynamic so much that the same approach wouldn't ring true.

I was thinking B&E might take over the Tyrese role. Seems like he would be a good fit. Disappointed they seem to be bypassing the accountant/decapitator story arc.

Trophy Husband wrote:
spider_j wrote:

The lack of Tyreese as another alpha male in the group and the absence of Dale's humanising influence changes the group dynamic so much that the same approach wouldn't ring true.

I was thinking B&E might take over the Tyrese role. Seems like he would be a good fit. Disappointed they seem to be bypassing the accountant/decapitator story arc.

Not surprising though, the only person for him to kill would have been Beth (Maggie's 1/2 sister), but I think they might have her take Carol's place (letting a zombie kill her), or maybe Billy's (killed during the final fight against the Governor). The point of the Thomas (the guy who killed the twin girls) was to show the group that other people were the most dangerous threat but Rick from the show is already aware of this.

I really like David Morrisey's take on The Governor. He pulls off being just as evil, but much more complicated.

At the same time, I'm not feeling Danai Gurira's much at all. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels out of place, and much too stiff.

I find the Governor less evil than the comic book but he does a good job playing him.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

I find the Governor less evil than the comic book but he does a good job playing him.

Seems they were looking to cast Liam Neeson and went for an impersonator.
Now I can only think how Liam Neeson would deliver each line.

I don't recall anyone in the comic book being interested in how they mechanics of the infection worked. I like the Gov's lab and his pursue of knowledge.

Jayhawker wrote:

I really like David Morrisey's take on The Governor. He pulls off being just as evil, but much more complicated.

At the same time, I'm not feeling Danai Gurira's much at all. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels out of place, and much too stiff.

Yeah, they are keeping the bad side of the Governor really tightly bottled up. Until he killed all those soldiers, I really didn't see anything that would make living in Woodbury objectionable.

The main problem with putting Michonne into the show at all is that she took forever to actually develop anything resembling a personality in the comics. She was this odd, badass, quiet loner who was seemingly happy enough to follow Rick's lead. She barely had any lines, and aside from being a living gun, she didn't have a real role for a long, long time. In the show, they are doing a similar set up with her, where she doesn't say much - to the point of being called a mute - and it shows just how odd that kind of behavior is in real life. I don't think it has to do with the actress.

Atras wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

I really like David Morrisey's take on The Governor. He pulls off being just as evil, but much more complicated.

At the same time, I'm not feeling Danai Gurira's much at all. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels out of place, and much too stiff.

Yeah, they are keeping the bad side of the Governor really tightly bottled up. Until he killed all those soldiers, I really didn't see anything that would make living in Woodbury objectionable.

The main problem with putting Michonne into the show at all is that she took forever to actually develop anything resembling a personality in the comics. She was this odd, badass, quiet loner who was seemingly happy enough to follow Rick's lead. She barely had any lines, and aside from being a living gun, she didn't have a real role for a long, long time. In the show, they are doing a similar set up with her, where she doesn't say much - to the point of being called a mute - and it shows just how odd that kind of behavior is in real life. I don't think it has to do with the actress.

Agreed on both points.
I think they're taking their time to show how far the Governor will go to stay in control. In the comic the reveal had very little build-up. It went from "Woodbury's amazing!" to "Tell me where you came from or I feed you to my pet zombies for entertainment" really quickly.
At the moment my wife (who hasn't read the comic, and I haven't spoiled anything for her either) knows he's a bad guy, but she doesn't suspect how bad.

This show is brutal. After knowing what happened to Rick and Michonne when caught by The Governor, it is killing me to see that they traded that Maggie and Glen. But to be honest, this probably works better on an emotional level than Rick and Michonne.

As I mentioned in the main thread, I think the magic phone is more useful in the TV show than the comic. It's a great insight nto the exact demons that will be turning Rick into being more and more like The Governor.

Speaking of which, David Morrisey's Governor blows away the comic book version. This makes so much more sense, and makes him even more creepy. I have to believe they will really be contrasting and comparing Rick and the Governor as the show evolves. I'm really liking the Woodbury story a lot.

I'm not sure what to make of the prison. I would have liked to seen it take up more time, like in the comics. but it also feels like they are having a harder time making it feel like a safe setting it eventually became in the comic. And now it looks like the clash of the Governor and Rick is going to come way sooner than in the comic.

Jayhawker wrote:

This show is brutal. After knowing what happened to Rick and Michonne when caught by The Governor, it is killing me to see that they traded that Maggie and Glen. But to be honest, this probably works better on an emotional level than Rick and Michonne.

I don't think they're going to subject Maggie to what Michonne was subjected to. When I saw this show was first announced literally my first thought was "How do they do the governor arc on any TV channel, much less AMC?" I just don't think a national audience will be receptive to serial rape followed by revenge.

I think what the TV show did, pretty wisely, is to change the stakes. Now the stakes are the safety of a beloved couple of kids who represent some hope for a normal future. That's pretty dense emotional turf without having to go all the way to where the comic book went.

Jayhawker wrote:

As I mentioned in the main thread, I think the magic phone is more useful in the TV show than the comic. It's a great insight nto the exact demons that will be turning Rick into being more and more like The Governor.

I agree. The phone stuff worked much better on TV. Another strong episode in a strong season.

Loving Season 3, episode after episode.
It's weird hearing people pronouncing Michonne's name with a "sh" sound when in my head, I always interpreted it as "Mikone".

I think I like all the substitutions so far; Maggie and Glen vs Rick and Michonne do higher the stakes. There is a real possibility for either character to die or be brutalized to the point where death is a welcome alternative.

Having Dale die the way he did bothered me quite a bit, but having Hershel take his place with the leg also raised the stakes; cut the leg, risk infection by giving CPR, but don't lose the only person with medical abilities.

I like how the show is building up the Daryl - Merle encounter. I hope it has a better resolution than the way T-Dog was booted off the show. The writers could have reversed the roles that we had with Shane and Rick in previous seasons, where Rick stood for the voice of reason and now has taken Shane's view of life and death in this new world and T-Dog reminding us of what is still human and humane.

Since you are here, I am going to repond in this thread to avoid spoling in the other.

Hobbes2099 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Well, it's more about seeing how the events are playing out in his mind. Yeah, we know that in general Rick is conflicted with being the leader of the group while knowing how many have died on his watch. But as the blood piles up, and more uninfected have to be "dealt with" there is a huge toll on the one that has to be the leader.

They are setting up a pretty nice compare and contrast situation with rick and The Governor. How do you deal with this kind of new reality?

Somewhat predictable spoiler about the phone:
The phone sticks around and continues to help narrate Rick's story, so to speak.

Don't know. I feel like it's completed it's purpose. Once Rick realizes he's "talking to himself" through Lori's voice and embraces the newborn, I think he's ready to move on.

We'll see. I think the phone will continue to act as a conduit to Rick's conscience and he continus to "consult" Lori about what he should do. There are a few scenes from the comics that I am anxious to see AMC's version of. Namely, how Carl first appreciates the phone, and then turns on Rick over it. It also serves as a bonding moment with Michonne regarding how they keep their sanity in a f*cked up world.

The current purpose may be complete, but I suspect Rick will go back to it as he struggles with other crisises.

Don't forget that Glenn was also captured by the Governor in the comic. While Rick was recovering from having his hand cut off, Glenn was in the cell next to Michonne so he could hear everything the Governor did to her. They didn't hurt him (physically at least), but did try to try to trick him into thinking they already knew the prison's location and tried to pump him for more information about it. I'm wondering how things will go down with Andrea there as well. I could see Andrea siding with the Governor, especially if she finds out Rick killed Shane. She already felt out of place back on the farm, and thinks they knew she was alive when they abandoned her. It's also possible that she could take Michonne's place instead of Maggie, say if she discovered and killed Penny. I wouldn't be surprised if they tone it down for TV, but I would be surprised if no one was at least tortured for information about the prison.

I was really pleased with last night's episode's handling of this. While visually toned down it still carried the full weight of the violation involved.

Plus Glen totally got to be bad ass.

Rahmen wrote:

I was really pleased with last night's episode's handling of this. While visually toned down it still carried the full weight of the violation involved.

Plus Glen totally got to be bad ass.

Yeah. I think this Governor is a better character. The original Governor was a psycho, but I never understood why he did what he did to Michonne beyond being psycho. The character as played in the TV show makes much more sense. He has his kingdom and he wants to protect it. He's using this kingdom and the people to try and find a "cure" or some kind of connection to his daughter. He considered violating Maggie, but it wasn't because he was a sicko, but because he had his main motivations in mind.

I've wondered frequently since this show started how they could ever show the Michonne / Governor arc on television. Or even if they should do that. I think they did the right thing. They swapped Michonne for a couple we like and have some investment in. The fact that he could have done with her whatever he wanted was in itself a violation. The threat alone was bad. Pairing that with Glenn knowing this was definitely a form of psychological torture.

And in the end the torture was what mattered. The torture in order to get the information in order to protect what he's built. I like it when villains have motivations that seem to come from a sane place. I like 3 dimensional villains and he seems much more 3 dimensional in the show than he did in the comic.

The Rise of the Governor explains why the comic version of the Governor is the way he is. It really is because he's insane. He's got the same motivations: keep his people safe and his zombie daughter cared for, but it's not explained as well (Comic Woodbury isn't nearly as safe & happy as TV Woodbury is), nor is why he immediately resorts to drastic measures. The book gives us the reasons why he's insane, but because I read it knowing full well just how crazy he is, it felt like an inevitable march towards the event(s) that finally made him snap, and wasn't particularly satisfying. It would most likely be better for someone to read right after Rick loses his hand in the comic, but before he wakes up.