NHL 2012-2013: Tentative deal early Sunday January 6

Bah, I was going to argue my point again, but it's pointless really. I agree the owners have been complete idiots, especially this summer offering some of those stupid contracts.

I just think the players are even bigger idiots. Hell just take a look at how they are handling this lockout. You have a very small portion of players taking off to play in the KHL for barely any money at all (once you take insurance into account) while their brethren who don't have that opportunity are sitting at home waiting for a deal to get done making 0 cash. Where's the solidarity?

I think both the owners and the players are being complete idiots. We're fans. We're the ones that should matter. f*ck the lot of 'em.

Gaald wrote:

Bah, I was going to argue my point again, but it's pointless really. I agree the owners have been complete idiots, especially this summer offering some of those stupid contracts.

I just think the players are even bigger idiots. Hell just take a look at how they are handling this lockout. You have a very small portion of players taking off to play in the KHL for barely any money at all (once you take insurance into account) while their brethren who don't have that opportunity are sitting at home waiting for a deal to get done making 0 cash. Where's the solidarity?

Solidarity? Its a warning flag that theres other people who employ hockey players so stop acting like your the only employer.

I wouldn't be surprised if they quietly encouraged players to go overseas to make that point. Theres what 750 players? even if 100 are playing overseas thats a pretty clear sign to the owners. Non of the other leagues players could find replacement jobs anywhere close to that level. So stop acting like your the NBA and NFL cause they got nice deals recently.

The signal from Fehr and the players is stop acting like you have all the leverage. We can go to Europe and help them fill games and grow their game/interest while you try and bleed us.

As for the money they are potentially throwing away IMO its theirs to throw away no matter how crazy it looks. The guys that really get screwed are obviously the short career guys but then again they fall into that replaceable labour bracket. We would all be AHL fans if 4th line plugs is what turned us on. People question why they stand to protect guys like Crosby but I think theres maybe some quasi loyalty and realization going on. 'Theres so much money in the game to watch him play and not me so I shouldn't really rock the boat on the pretty damn good share I get already.'

Vector wrote:

I think both the owners and the players are being complete idiots. We're fans. We're the ones that should matter. f*ck the lot of 'em.

+3.3 billion

Bringing up the short career guys is actually a really important thing that I think gets missed when we start talking about money. Those are the guys that are well and truly getting screwed by the deals the NHL is throwing around, because with all the deals the league has proffered, they have zero chance at free agency. Even the PA's deals only give them a year or two at best as a UFA, and that's mostly pandering to the owners.

AnimeJ wrote:

Bringing up the short career guys is actually a really important thing that I think gets missed when we start talking about money. Those are the guys that are well and truly getting screwed by the deals the NHL is throwing around, because with all the deals the league has proffered, they have zero chance at free agency. Even the PA's deals only give them a year or two at best as a UFA, and that's mostly pandering to the owners.

People definitely don't factor in short careers, few job career options post-career, serious injuries prior to reaching 35 years old, being the best in the world at what they do, and an entire childhood and teenage years training to do what they do. I want the players to make a tonne of money and people successful. But, like I said, f*ck both groups at this point.

That was awesome

Been going to a lot of Hershey Bears games. It's all I got.

But it's fun. And cheap! Got a first row seat last weekend for $25. Sat next to some snotty college girls that couldn't stop with the "I think he's the hottest player on the ice" conversation, but beyond that was a great time.

Ranger Rick wrote:

my emergency Halloween costume.

I can add 'Shared Sacrifice! Shared Sacrifice!'
'The NFL and NBA got what they wanted!' and then to add to the confusion. 'NBA? Started today? Whats that?'.

Vrikk wrote:

Been going to a lot of Hershey Bears games. It's all I got.

But it's fun. And cheap! Got a first row seat last weekend for $25. Sat next to some snotty college girls that couldn't stop with the "I think he's the hottest player on the ice" conversation, but beyond that was a great time.

What do you think of their new logo?
IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/HersheyBears.PNG)

I like it a lot better than the last:
IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8a/Hershey_Bears_%28logo%29.svg/200px-Hershey_Bears_%28logo%29.svg.png)

but the original is still my favorite. I love the old-timeyness of it:
IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Hershey_Bears_%28original_logo%29.png)

Oooh, that's a really nice logo. I know* a guy who's a season ticket holder for the Bears. Seems to love it. My parents live near Abbotsford so I might watch a Heat** game when I go back for Christmas.

*a fellow poster on a hockey message board
**I hate that name.

We're going to see the Charlotte Checkers' home opener tomorrow. Wooooot! They've been tearing it up on the road, 6-2-1. Madness.

Hard to believe that my Minnesota sports pessimism can kick in for the Wild even when they're not playing. Both Granlund and Brodin injured last night, the Wild can't even stay healthy when they're locked out.

cheesycrouton wrote:

What do you think of their new logo?

I like it. It's more subdued than "I'M FREAKING ANGRY" bear.

The real tragedy though is their mascot, Coco, is no longer fat and loveable. He has six-pack abs now, and all the fans mock him and tell him to go away when he comes into the stands. It amuses me.

I guess Hershey doesn't want their hockey mascot to be fat on chocolate.

I feel like canceling the Winter Classic is a sign that no one has faith in getting a season at all this year.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I feel like canceling the Winter Classic is a sign that no one has faith in getting a season at all this year.

Well along with the news that the winter classic is cancelled there was news the two sides were going to meet in secret today to discuss the newest offer the owners made with regards to the make whole area of the previous offer. The money would come from the owners share of revenue sharing or something of the sort. We still may end up getting a half season.

Gaald wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I feel like canceling the Winter Classic is a sign that no one has faith in getting a season at all this year.

Well along with the news that the winter classic is cancelled there was news the two sides were going to meet in secret today to discuss the newest offer the owners made with regards to the make whole area of the previous offer. The money would come from the owners share of revenue sharing or something of the sort. We still may end up getting a half season.

Secret meeting or no, I'm with clocky on this one. I'll be surprised if we get anything at all, and whatever we get will wind up being a shadow of what it should have been.

AnimeJ wrote:
Gaald wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I feel like canceling the Winter Classic is a sign that no one has faith in getting a season at all this year.

Well along with the news that the winter classic is cancelled there was news the two sides were going to meet in secret today to discuss the newest offer the owners made with regards to the make whole area of the previous offer. The money would come from the owners share of revenue sharing or something of the sort. We still may end up getting a half season.

Secret meeting or no, I'm with clocky on this one. I'll be surprised if we get anything at all, and whatever we get will wind up being a shadow of what it should have been.

Well from what I heard, the last time we had a half season it made things way more exciting as every game meant so much more. I actually think the seasons are to long, but I'm still pissed it doesn't look like we will get a full one, if we get anything at all.

Same. For me, the season slipping meant missing a rare Caps game here in Ohio; they were supposed to play in C-bus back in October. They may have one or two of those during the regular season, but it's not likely I'll be able to make one now.

Bettman needs to go. I know it's old news now, but this is the third work stoppage under his reign of ineptitude, and the last one almost destroyed the league.

And it's not even back at the level it was at pre '98.

So now what? NHL is even more irrelevant?

As much as I hate to say it, that's where we're heading after the season. They have burned a lot of loyal fans with all this malarkey.

Vrikk wrote:

Bettman needs to go. I know it's old news now, but this is the third work stoppage under his reign of ineptitude, and the last one almost destroyed the league.

And it's not even back at the level it was at pre '98.

As much as I think Bettman has been a detriment to the league, the last lockout ended up being a very good thing for everyone involved. Rules, salaries, and the style was reset. TV ratings, league and league revenue rose dramatically. I hated that lockout but there were so many problems that I understood how it could end up being a positive.

Why '98?

AnimeJ wrote:

As much as I hate to say it, that's where we're heading after the season. They have burned a lot of loyal fans with all this malarkey.

Yup. I'm a die hard fan and I just don't care. The only thing this lockout has shown fans is that there are other sports or more productive pasttimes.

A couple analyatical-bloggers I follow on Twitter pointed out that a half-season means luck will play a greater factor in the standings. For bad-to-mediocre teams that's not a bad thing.

As an added bonus if there is half a season it's going to be hilarious to see one or two teams that are actually good blow up their roster because percentages didn't go there way in a shortened season. I think (I could be wrong) LA would have missed the playoffs had the season ended after 41 games in 2011-12.

I'd like to say I'm pissed off (or even apathetic) about the whole situation and prospect of more labour stoppages in the near future but it's likely I'll come crawling back because I'm a sucker. Maybe I won't watch as many games but anything short of Montreal folding or prolonged Habs management incompetence means I'll be back. The last two seasons I really got a kick out of the analytics thing and I don't see that stopping or slowing down.

Vector wrote:

As much as I think Bettman has been a detriment to the league, the last lockout ended up being a very good thing for everyone involved. Rules, salaries, and the style was reset. TV ratings, league and league revenue rose dramatically. I hated that lockout but there were so many problems that I understood how it could end up being a positive.

Why '98?

Why '98 because that's only a couple years after the '95 lock out (I remember because it was the year before I started watching the NHL, and my Caps soon after went to their one and only Cup).

And I say Bettman has been detriment more than some people do. The '05 lockout didn't help because the popularity of the sport has yet to recover. It's never been as popular as the MLB, NFL, or NBA, and I know Ovie, Sid the Kid, and others have helped in the past 6 years, but it's still not the same.

Vrikk wrote:
Vector wrote:

As much as I think Bettman has been a detriment to the league, the last lockout ended up being a very good thing for everyone involved. Rules, salaries, and the style was reset. TV ratings, league and league revenue rose dramatically. I hated that lockout but there were so many problems that I understood how it could end up being a positive.

Why '98?

Why '98 because that's only a couple years after the '95 lock out (I remember because it was the year before I started watching the NHL, and my Caps soon after went to their one and only Cup).

And I say Bettman has been detriment more than some people do. The '05 lockout didn't help because the popularity of the sport has yet to recover. It's never been as popular as the MLB, NFL, or NBA, and I know Ovie, Sid the Kid, and others have helped in the past 6 years, but it's still not the same.

I don't think its fair to compare the NHL to the other 3 sports in that respect because it will never be as popular as those 3 sports.

The shocking thing is how its not even 4th. The only people who even know the NHL is locked out is NHL fans.

Its a perplexing approach to running a long term business. They act like they want to grow the game in strange places where a rational person wouldn't expect hockey to catch on then kick those fans in the nuts with stuff like this. Sure your die hards in the southern markets will come back but with the casual fans its 1 step forward 2 steps back.

The real truth IMO is they have 0 interest in 'growing the game'. They have 100% interest in conning cities/counties etc to help subsidize arenas so 'owners' can develop large chunks of land they also happen to own.

I've only been a hockey fan for about two years. My start with the game came from seeing Kopitar and Quick playing extremely well to earn the Kings a win. Seeing them struggle despite having some very obvious talent was very interesting. Last season was extremely entertaining for me once the Kings started winning after the change to a new coach. I didn't expect the Kings to win last year, but their victory last season got me quite excited to see if they would continue their momentum into the 2012-13.

It is a real shame that all these athletes have to struggle so much to feel like they're not getting screwed by the league or the team owners.

jowner wrote:

The shocking thing is how its not even 4th. The only people who even know the NHL is locked out is NHL fans.

That also disappoints me. I think hockey is a far more interesting sport that takes drastically more skill and athleticism when you compare it to the popular US sports. In my opinion hockey deserves to have ratings similar to the other major US sports.

jowner wrote:

Sure your die hards in the southern markets will come back but with the casual fans its 1 step forward 2 steps back.

I can't speak for the other southern markets, but I can say I have reasonably high hopes about hockey long-term in Carolina. The ownership has come in from the beginning knowing they would not see immediate results, and they have been building up youth hockey in the area in a major way, to the point of not having enough ice time for leagues in some cases.

We are just hitting the point where kids who got started in the area are draft-eligible, and while we won't be competing with Canada anytime soon, it's clear we have a market that will have more than just a few first-generation diehards (and "Yankees" moving here from Boston, Philly, and NYC) interested in the sport.

It will take 20 more years to really be visible, but (fingers crossed) it seems to be working.

Not to say the lockout won't hurt, it'll set us back harder than many, but I see a lot of limping together of southern markets when they all have their own dynamics. I've heard Nashville has done similarly well investing in youth hockey as well.

Edit: I only double-post because I love you so much!

Vrikk wrote:

And I say Bettman has been detriment more than some people do. The '05 lockout didn't help because the popularity of the sport has yet to recover.

It has? A lot of the reports I've read have stated the NHL has having their highest ratings ever.

Vrikk wrote:

It's never been as popular as the MLB, NFL, or NBA, and I know Ovie, Sid the Kid, and others have helped in the past 6 years, but it's still not the same.

And it never will be. The most NHL can compete with is the NBA for the "3rd" slot. Hockey also has a unique problem in that it's an expensive winter sport as opposed to cheap other sports that kids can get in to. The NHL will always be popular and profitable in the same way that the MLB is because of an outside country providing a large amount of fans (roughly 30 million).