Forza Horizon Catch-All

Regarding the Forza Horizon multiplayer, I've found it highly entertaining to grief players who race exceptionally dirty. It's like a mini-game - figure out who the dirtiest racer in the lobby is, and hound them each race until they finally leave the lobby.

Sometimes if there's a few really dirty racers, and someone else who's obviously trying to run as clean as possible, I'll run interference for my fellow clean racer. It's honestly kinda sad though how people seem to treat the online races as a demolition derby, or treat all the other cars in the race as the kiddy bumpers in a bowling lane.

I found there's no sense in entering a Forizion multiplayer race if you're competitive or expect to have any kind of experience beyond high-speed bumper cars.With no mechanical damage, lap dirtying, or credit penalty, there's no disincentive for bumping and bullying; and, in my experience at least, even if you're trying your noblest to race properly, the netcode ensures that all the other cars will be juddering all over the track, falling out of the sky on top of you, re-spawning superimposed on you, or—and this is why it really pays not to be competitive—magically appearing in front of you a split-second before you cross the finish line in what was going to be first place.

So for the former reasons, it's understandable that many players will be griefing. For the latter, I can't even assume they're intentionally griefing and that's not just the terrible online experience. If I so much as tapped another racer in Dirt 3, I'd get the most invective-filled messages after the race; for as awful as I raced in Forizon, despite the netcode or not, I never once got any negative feedback. Maybe that's different audiences, or maybe the between-race times or too short to punch out some curses in Pure Skill lobbies.

Yeah, the netcode for Forizon multiplayer is patently crazy. I've had cases where cars just magically appeared UNDER me, sending me flying up into the air, flipping end over end, costing me what would have been victories.

This really drove me batty at first until I just embraced the insanity and looked at it as a silly way to goof around and roll the reward lotto machine. I've gotten a few good cars, and some occasionally nice credit rewards.

Farscry wrote:

This really drove me batty at first until I just embraced the insanity and looked at it as a silly way to goof around and roll the reward lotto machine. I've gotten a few good cars, and some occasionally nice credit rewards.

Yup, exactly. The online racing is great for making some cash or striking it lucky with a car win. And then for actual online fun, the special game modes are ace.

I'm really curious about the multiplayer etiquette. To be honest, I prefer a game where bumping and bullying is accepted. It's how I like to race. That means staying out of Forza. But man, I had no problem knocking a guy off the road or using him as a break in a turn in PGR2. Of course, that was mostly offline.

It's one of the reasons I enjoyed paying Cat and Mouse in PGR2 before it was even an actual game mode.

I'm getting Forizan this weekend. I'm still up in the air as to how much multiplayer time I will get out of it. I'm not interested in ruining anyone's experience, and I can respect and see the value in wanting to race clean, as one would do in real life. It's the same I way I view other sports games.

It really depends on the game, Jayhawker. In the "hardcore" racing sims, it's accepted that there will inevitably be some bumping since it's much harder to try to be aware of where people are in the games than in real life.

However, that's a far cry from intentionally using opponents as rebound-bumpers so you can take a corner sharper than you otherwise would, and simultaneously throw your opponent's turn completely out of whack (plus potentially damaging them and taking them out of the running for a podium position). That's not acceptable etiquette in serious racing sims because it's not accepted in the real-world sport either.

Think of it the same way as intentional fouling in sports games. If you're playing an MLB sim and intentionally beaning the opposing teams' star batters (since that might injure them, woot!), then you're going to get severe penalties, and it's going to be viewed as dirty, unethical play.

All this said, it also comes down to the community you're playing with. When I've played Forza with anonymous multiplayer opponents, I race clean as much as possible, though if someone demonstrates that they're a nasty player by shoving my car around clearly intentionally (rather than taking a turn too aggressively on occasion; I'm talking repeated, intentional fouling here) I will race dirty against them or switch to another lobby (if the latter is a reasonable option). When I've played Forza with the GWJ crew, we inevitably wind up going crazy at some point. We'll say "ok ok, let's race clean fellas" and stay well-behaved for a while, but the silliness pops up too and most of the time everyone just takes it in good fun.

As for Forizon, race as crazy in multiplayer as you want, because frankly I don't think the game is really compatible with serious racing. I get my "serious" fix from the Rivals Challenges, and enjoy the rest of the game for the crazy speedy junk-food that it is.

I agree with Farscry. What multiplayer etiquette in Forizon? Jayhawker, from my ~30 online races, Forizon seems like a perfect fit for you (flaky netcode notwithstanding).

Gravey wrote:

I agree with Farscry. What multiplayer etiquette in Forizon? Jayhawker, from my ~30 online races, Forizon seems like a perfect fit for you (flaky netcode notwithstanding).

And to add to my post and Gravey's, this isn't meant to be talking "down" on the multiplayer (aside from the janky netcode). It's simply a different flavor than the main-franchise Forza games, and this flavor does seem to be more to your preference.

I'm actually happy with arcadey-style racers and with serious-sim racers. It's more a matter of when I approach a game from the wrong perspective (which I admittedly did a bit with Forizon) and have to adjust that perspective to play it in the way that works best. Since embracing the crazier nature of Forizon multiplayer, I'm genuinely having fun with it.

While you can choose to embrace the crazy roughhouse play that seams most prevalent, you can always just create a public lobby and turn off collisions. I derive great joy from opponents ghosting through my car and slamming into the wall as I continue on my way. It's admittedly not perfect - dealing with traffic can add an exciting element - but it beats having cars lag warp into you and the like.

I've thought about doing that, Lupus, but wonder whether people will actually stick around and race, or if I'd just wind up with an empty lobby and getting no racing in. How has that worked out for you? The idea appeals to me, get some legitimate multiplayer competition that works around the flaws of the current system.

Farscry wrote:

Think of it the same way as intentional fouling in sports games. If you're playing an MLB sim and intentionally beaning the opposing teams' star batters (since that might injure them, woot!), then you're going to get severe penalties, and it's going to be viewed as dirty, unethical play.

Believe me, I play a tron of sports games, and there is a lot of BS that ruins the experience. that's my trepidation. While I may like more arcade style racing, I realy don't want to be"that guy."

PGR 2 was interesting in that is could go easily both ways. So it was the first game wher I realized that how I race offline might not be so welcome online. Forizon, because of its Forza lineage, is in the same boat.

And I know that we have some guys that want the races to be more sim. The last thing I want to do is jump in with everyone and play in a cheesy style that ruins the fun for others. It's kind of why I hoped Blur or Split/Second would have taken off more, as they embraced the aggressive arcade style of racing.

Anyway, I should be online net week, for better or worse.

With family stuff and working on the 3D printer I haven't had a chance to get any time in since the beginning of last weekend. I'd be down for some GWJ multiplayer though. Like I said before, I personally am not looking for my sim racing fix in Horizon and if people are wanting to trade paint with some loving PIT maneuvers thrown in I'm game. I'm waiting for my new PC cockpit to come in and I'll get that from iRacing where I'll have surround vision and 120 FPS.

Farscry wrote:

I've thought about doing that, Lupus, but wonder whether people will actually stick around and race, or if I'd just wind up with an empty lobby and getting no racing in. How has that worked out for you? The idea appeals to me, get some legitimate multiplayer competition that works around the flaws of the current system. :)

To be perfectly honest, so far I've only done this with a group of goodjers in Horizon, but it worked well enough in previous Forza's.

LiquidMantis wrote:

I'm waiting for my new PC cockpit to come in and I'll get that from iRacing where I'll have surround vision and 120 FPS.

Oh man, you make me jealous.

Farscry wrote:

Oh man, you make me jealous. :D

Yeah, it's kind of an extravagance (well not just "kind of") but I've been needing a new chair anyway and trying to juggle between flight sim'ing and driving is just impossible so I splurged on an Obutto R3volution with the extra googaws. I've just been waiting for them to get their next shipment.

Yeah, I hate you.

Aaron D. wrote:

Yeah, I hate you.

+1. Between that, and zero's wheel modding, I'm seriously looking at my 360 controller wondering if we're playing the same game.

+1. Between that, and zero's wheel modding, I'm seriously looking at my 360 controller wondering if we're playing the same game.

It's funny you should say that, actually, since I've found that far more than in previous Forza games it really DOES feel like a different game depending on the input device I use. With the wheel it still feels very similar to driving in Forza 3 or 4 -- i.e., still very much on the simulation end of the spectrum. Playing with the controller, though, feels much more different from the feel of Forza 3/4 with the controller, particularly in that it's far more accommodating to sloppy or reckless driving.

Honestly, I'm actually quite thrilled at this since it is almost like I have two different games to choose from. I can use the wheel for a more serious simulated driving experience, or pick up the controller and go crazy with haphazard drifting, etc.

(Incidentally, this was the root of my problem a few pages back with the skill PR challenges -- I switched to the controller for them and had no problem. That said, I am very much looking forward to learning to do that kind of crazy driving with the wheel now that I have the handbrake mod in place.)

Since there are no side view options in Horizon I've been okay with using Y for handbrake. I wonder if the socket on the pedals for the handbrake is active? If I get a chance I might poke at it this weekend.

zeroKFE wrote:

Playing with the controller, though, feels much more different from the feel of Forza 3/4 with the controller, particularly in that it's far more accommodating to sloppy or reckless driving.

Honestly, I'm actually quite thrilled at this since it is almost like I have two different games to choose from. I can use the wheel for a more serious simulated driving experience, or pick up the controller and go crazy with haphazard drifting, etc.

(Incidentally, this was the root of my problem a few pages back with the skill PR challenges -- I switched to the controller for them and had no problem. That said, I am very much looking forward to learning to do that kind of crazy driving with the wheel now that I have the handbrake mod in place.)

Have you tried using turning the inner steering deadzone to 0, or setting the steering setting to Simulation, with the controller? I've done the former but not the latter, since the Forza forums say that's the way to go. But I'm not perceptive enough to say whether it's made a difference or not. In any case, the PR stunt challenges are an actual challenge, and the only ones I've passed so far are those where I can quickly get to a wide road and manji drift as long as possible. But even that's been tricky on cars like the FLA that will spin out with a touch too much power, and then using the controller is like playing Rachmaninoff on the piano, between balancing the steering, power, gear, brake, and e-brake. I should probably just use the clutch. And add an analog stick to the piano.

Have you tried using turning the inner steering deadzone to 0, or setting the steering setting to Simulation, with the controller? I've done the former but not the latter, since the Forza forums say that's the way to go. But I'm not perceptive enough to say whether it's made a difference or not. In any case, the PR stunt challenges are an actual challenge, and the only ones I've passed so far are those where I can quickly get to a wide road and manji drift as long as possible.

My controller settings are vanilla.

I should clarify a bit: on my wheel (especially with no handbrake) most of the skill challenges were essentially impossible. Two I managed with just fast driving and near misses, but for the rest I simply lacked the necessary wheel skills to build good drift combos. So, following Thin J's advice, I switched to the controller and focused on learning how to drive insane. So by "no problem" I guess I more accurately mean that I was able to complete them where I wouldn't have been able to with the wheel. Some maybe took a small handful of tries, others maybe 45 minutes or an hour, but eventually I managed to finish them all.

LiquidMantis wrote:

Since there are no side view options in Horizon I've been okay with using Y for handbrake. I wonder if the socket on the pedals for the handbrake is active? If I get a chance I might poke at it this weekend.

I don't think so.

The only hits that came up when I searched for "fanatec handbrake" or "csr handbrake" where links to this particular modification and links to information on the future (vaporware?) Fanatec Clubsport handbrake product (which I assume is what that port on the pedals is meant for).

EDIT: I did just now find one link to someone who modified their shifter to work as a handbrake via the pedals, but to me it sounds like a sketchier proposition than the mod I did. (My mod, again, was a fairly straightforward process of disassembling the wheel, clipping and stripping one end of a PS2 cable, and soldering two wires.)

I don't see how that's sketchier, from that link all that is needed is a NO momentary contact switch on those pins. That's crazy easy. I assumed it would be an analog input. I'm not doing anything to jeopardize the warranty on my CSR-E.

zeroKFE wrote:

I should clarify a bit: on my wheel (especially with no handbrake) most of the skill challenges were essentially impossible. Two I managed with just fast driving and near misses, but for the rest I simply lacked the necessary wheel skills to build good drift combos. So, following Thin J's advice, I switched to the controller and focused on learning how to drive insane. So by "no problem" I guess I more accurately mean that I was able to complete them where I wouldn't have been able to with the wheel. Some maybe took a small handful of tries, others maybe 45 minutes or an hour, but eventually I managed to finish them all.

I'm assuming you're using external cam for the challenges?

Between Forza and Codemasters' titles, I'm so addicted to cockpit cam that it never occurred to me to switch back to behind-the-car camera when trying to stack Popularity Points for the Outpost Challenges.

Any tips for fine-tuning the MS Speed Wheel settings?

(Yes, I completely and utterly suck at them.)

I'm assuming you're using external cam for the challenges?

Nah, cockpit camera all the way for me too.

As Thin J pointed out when I brought it up a few pages ago, for most of the skill challenges the real trick is just building crazy drift combos. I suppose changing the camera might make that a bit easier, but for me there are two real differences between the wheel and the controller than made using the controller a far bigger factor than the camera ever would be:

1. Consistent access to the handbrake (which, of course, I have recently addressed via my wheel mod). This is the biggest thing. To keep those combos going you need to be able to throw your car into a new slide with split second timing, which is impossible when the B button is rotated halfway around the wheel.

2. Instant counter steering. Yeah, lowering the sensitivity on my wheel helps with this, but you can flip the stick on your controller from full tilt left to full tilt right faster than you could ever rotate a wheel. Funner and more satisfying? No. But easier to manage? Yes.

Ultimately once you get down the trick of feathering the steering and the accelerator to keep yourself in a near constant insane (but controlled) fishtail, getting the point totals needed becomes a matter of execution (with a bit of luck thrown in). Always be drifting, drift through signs and landscaping, and drift close to traffic, and sooner or later you'll put together big enough combos.

(Oh, maybe it goes without saying, but you need to be shifting manually -- it may be possible to drift with an automatic transmission but have no idea how you'd manage to get the throttle control necessary that way.)

Any tips for fine-tuning the MS Speed Wheel settings?

Sorry, I've not used it -- just my CSR and the controller.

LiquidMantis wrote:

I don't see how that's sketchier, from that link all that is needed is a NO momentary contact switch on those pins. That's crazy easy. I assumed it would be an analog input. I'm not doing anything to jeopardize the warranty on my CSR-E.

Heh, fair enough.

I use cockpit cam for racing, but chase cam for the stunt challenges. I agree with zeroKFE that the control with the gamepad is the most important thing, but I also feel that the situational awareness that chase cam provides is second. Now whether or not it's materially important, it at least makes me feel better knowing how close the rear/sides are to the guardrails and barriers.

If you want to stick with the Speed Wheel, and are already using manual, then I'd recommend using the clutch too, so you have more options to save drifts that are going sideways. I mean, pear-shaped. Otherwise, the analog stick is going to be a better and more precise way of controlling the car than the free-floating wheel.

While I'm still mostly in the cockpit view, with Horizon I like the hood cam as well and would probably use it more if it had a rear view mirror. It's nice being able to see more of the scenery since the TV already gives you the letterboxed effect that a windshield does anyway.

Cool.

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I'll get those darn challenges soon enough! **shakes fist**

Yeah, those skill challenges are the hardest thing for me to manage, because I suck with a capital S at drifting.

Farscry wrote:

Yeah, those skill challenges are the hardest thing for me to manage, because I suck with a capital S at drifting. ;)

Eh, don't get discouraged. I went from zero (and I mean zero -- I've probably played a total of 45 minutes of Forza with a controller in the past two iterations of the game) to finishing skill challenges in a short evening of learning. Not sure if it was the same in previous Forza games, but the Horizon controller implementation is designed to allow this kind of insanity -- you just have to find that finesse sweet spot.

Farscry wrote:

Yeah, those skill challenges are the hardest thing for me to manage, because I suck with a capital S at drifting. ;)

I use automatic, controller, and hood cam.

Drifting is just a matter of tapping the handbrake at the right point in your starting bend, then adjusting the lock of the wheels as you fishtail along. I've not really had any issues so far using this method.