Windows 8

Symbiotic wrote:

For the people who a really sad/angry/annoyed that the Start Menu is gone, I'm honestly curious to know what you miss about it that you can't just as easily do with either Windows+X or the built-in Search where you just type in the first few letters of what you're looking for and it shows up...?

Jump Lists?

Symbiotic wrote:

For the people who a really sad/angry/annoyed that the Start Menu is gone, I'm honestly curious to know what you miss about it that you can't just as easily do with either Windows+X or the built-in Search where you just type in the first few letters of what you're looking for and it shows up...?

it's just easier I think in a desktop environment than the Metro interface (which doesn't really fit with a mouse for me) but I downloaded the StarDock start button, I just hate the stupid "jewels" or whatever they are called on the bottom right corner, top left corner, and right side of the screen.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
Symbiotic wrote:

For the people who a really sad/angry/annoyed that the Start Menu is gone, I'm honestly curious to know what you miss about it that you can't just as easily do with either Windows+X or the built-in Search where you just type in the first few letters of what you're looking for and it shows up...?

Jump Lists?

Nested and custom program groups for me.

Funny, I have those in folders in OS X. I haven't a Start Menu for nine years. And when I did, it usually felt like the long way to do anything I wanted.

Jayhawker wrote:

Funny, I have those in folders in OS X. I haven't a Start Menu for nine years. And when I did, it usually felt like the long way to do anything I wanted.

I'm old school. I still clean out the readmes and uninstaller shortcuts and group everything into 'Games', 'Utilities', etc. I'm also a little ocd so there's that too...

TheGameguru wrote:

I power everything down these days...why waste anything with boots as fast as they are

To run this.

TheGameguru wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

How often do people actually cold boot modern computers? I either leave mine on, or it goes to sleep.

So going to desktop on boot is maybe a once a month thing on my main always-on machine. Only when enough patches nag at me to reboot.

I power everything down these days...why waste anything with boots as fast as they are

I wish boots *were* fast.

Oh, don't get me wrong, the OS boots in an instant, especially if I'm booting Linux. But this is what booting is like on my desktop with an SSD:

"Oh look, there's my CPU speed, there's my RAM, yep, it's running at 1333, quick POST test it, now let's enumerate all my SATA AHCI devices... one.. two.. three.. four.. hey, I've got an eSATA card in there, let's boot that... OK, now the big info screen, now "booting operating system"... NOW Linux can begin booti-oh it's done."

The SSD has completely removed the boot time of the OS itself, but god, waiting for the PC itself to finally get to that point is annoying.

TheGameguru wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

How often do people actually cold boot modern computers? I either leave mine on, or it goes to sleep.

So going to desktop on boot is maybe a once a month thing on my main always-on machine. Only when enough patches nag at me to reboot.

I power everything down these days...why waste anything with boots as fast as they are

I keep stuff open out of convenience I'm lazy. Plus I'm not yet running an OS SSD.

On my Windows 8 RC I kept getting a "ran out of memory" error and it was acting funky. I went back to Windows 7 and my machine is running like a champ.

A dumb question but I didn't seem to find anything definitive on google, and even one thread that said might not be possible:

Does anyone know for sure if you can do a clean install of the $40 Win 8 upgrade? I have a desktop with a Win Vista Basic Chinese key, but have not been able to find an iso anywhere to reinstall it. So I'm wondering if I bought the upgrade (it is available in China), if I'd be able to install Win 8 as long as I have that key.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Does anyone know for sure if you can do a clean install of the $40 Win 8 upgrade?

No, it's supposed to ask you for the original product key before proceeding. Other than the System Builder version, anything at retail will be Upgrade only.

Kurrelgyre wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Does anyone know for sure if you can do a clean install of the $40 Win 8 upgrade?

No, it's supposed to ask you for the original product key before proceeding. Other than the System Builder version, anything at retail will be Upgrade only.

So you can in fact do a clean install if you have the old license key?

edit: now that Microsoft's upgrade website is up, I can actually check for details. Some pleasant and less pleasant surprises popped up.

1. Microsoft respected exchange rates, so it's 30 euro for an upgrade and not 40. NICE!
2. You have to download and run an UpgradeAssistant.exe. As you can only run an .exe file within an existing OS, I'm not sure it's possible to do a clean install. Hopefully somewhere in the process you'll be able to download an ISO or something.
3. Upgrades from 32-bit OS (even on a 64-bit CPU) to 64-bit OS are not possible with the Upgrade Assistant. Meaning you have to buy the DVD at 60 Euro (70USD?). That sucks, as I intended to upgrade my fiancee's old 32-bit Vista to a 64-bit Win8. As practically all WinXP installs are 32bit, the cheap upgrade path is practically useless for these users.

There's this picture on a gamasutra article, which I assume is from MS marketing materials showing Win8 desktop usage:
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/PSnOw.png)

Does anyone else want to count the multiple ways that's stupid and potentially physically harmful in ergonomic terms? I'm up to 4 so far.

Scratched wrote:

There's this picture on a gamasutra article, which I assume is from MS marketing materials showing Win8 desktop usage:

Ridiculous. That looks like an all-in-one pc though. They should've had the guy standing in his kitchen without the mouse and keyboard (i.e. you don't need them!). Another win for MS marketing.

Microsoft should encourage vendors to make the touch-pad a mini monitor. That way, people can glance down at the touch-screen-pad and make gestures and tap instead of having to reach out. Would be a better sell for desktop use I think. It can also be used as a mini second screen in the case of full screen Metro apps. Didn't someone put mini monitors on the outside of towers years ago? Also, weren't we supposed to have monitors on the outside of our notebooks years ago?

dejanzie wrote:

3. Upgrades from 32-bit OS (even on a 64-bit CPU) to 64-bit OS are not possible with the Upgrade Assistant. Meaning you have to buy the DVD at 60 Euro (70USD?). That sucks, as I intended to upgrade my fiancee's old 32-bit Vista to a 64-bit Win8. As practically all WinXP installs are 32bit, the cheap upgrade path is practically useless for these users.

You've never been able to upgrade between 32 and 64-bit and since the core differences are so significant, it would be a nightmare at best to do anyway. :/

With Windows 7, you were able to do clean installs with the upgrade versions if you just entered no product key during installation (which put it in trial mode) and then entered your upgrade key in the Activation Wizard after you were up and running. I wonder if they removed that functionality in 8.

Also this morning, Microsoft changed the policy and PEGI-18/M rated games will now be permitted in the Windows Store. I know that won't satisfy anyone who hates the idea regardless but as I said before, this is a sign that they are responding to feedback and that new platforms can and do evolve quickly.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
dejanzie wrote:

3. Upgrades from 32-bit OS (even on a 64-bit CPU) to 64-bit OS are not possible with the Upgrade Assistant. Meaning you have to buy the DVD at 60 Euro (70USD?). That sucks, as I intended to upgrade my fiancee's old 32-bit Vista to a 64-bit Win8. As practically all WinXP installs are 32bit, the cheap upgrade path is practically useless for these users.

You've never been able to upgrade between 32 and 64-bit and since the core differences are so significant, it would be a nightmare at best to do anyway. :/

With Windows 7, you were able to do clean installs with the upgrade versions if you just entered no product key during installation (which put it in trial mode) and then entered your upgrade key in the Activation Wizard after you were up and running. I wonder if they removed that functionality in 8.

Sometimes to do that, you also had to do a Regedit.

I figure Thurrott will get something out. I'd think you could probably still get an bootable iso and use the key on an upgrade from 32 to 64.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
dejanzie wrote:

3. Upgrades from 32-bit OS (even on a 64-bit CPU) to 64-bit OS are not possible with the Upgrade Assistant. Meaning you have to buy the DVD at 60 Euro (70USD?). That sucks, as I intended to upgrade my fiancee's old 32-bit Vista to a 64-bit Win8. As practically all WinXP installs are 32bit, the cheap upgrade path is practically useless for these users.

You've never been able to upgrade between 32 and 64-bit and since the core differences are so significant, it would be a nightmare at best to do anyway. :/

With Windows 7, you were able to do clean installs with the upgrade versions if you just entered no product key during installation (which put it in trial mode) and then entered your upgrade key in the Activation Wizard after you were up and running. I wonder if they removed that functionality in 8.

Also this morning, Microsoft changed the policy and PEGI-18/M rated games will now be permitted in the Windows Store. I know that won't satisfy anyone who hates the idea regardless but as I said before, this is a sign that they are responding to feedback and that new platforms can and do evolve quickly.

I don't think many people are going to be buying games from the Windows 8 software store. Steam has it locked down.

That mature games in store kerfuffle seems to be resolved.

According to this you must have a previous version of Windows installed to install the Windows 8 upgrade
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...

You upgraded to Windows 8, but didn't have a previous version of Windows installed (error 0xC004F061)

If you see error 0xC004F061 when you try to activate Windows 8, it means that you're using a product key for an upgrade version of Windows 8 and a previous version of Windows wasn't on your PC when Windows 8 was installed. To install an upgrade version of Windows 8, you must already have Windows 7, Windows Vista, or Windows XP installed on your PC.

If you formatted the drive before the upgrade version of Windows 8 was installed, you won't be able to use your upgrade product key to activate Windows 8. To activate Windows 8, you'll need to install your previous version of Windows, and then reinstall Windows 8.

My biggest concern with the direction windows 8 and metro is taking us is this:

My company depends on in house developed software that is only run internally but is needed for everyone in the company to do their jobs. Yes we can run these apps on the desktop environment in windows 8, the problem is they integrate with MS software like office. One of the things metro is changing is that desktop apps will not be able to integrate directly with metro apps which is what the new office apps will be.

This means we have two options:
1) Continue with windows 7 and older version of office until MS decides they are no longer supporting and patching them. This maybe a ways away but still is not an acceptable long term solution. PCI and other industry compliance's require us to as be secure as possible which means using an OS that is maintained and patched.

2) Have our developer spend time (a lot of time and money) to build metro versions of all our internal apps and then get them certified by Microsoft to be able to integrate directly with office like they do now. This seems like an overly difficult and extremely expensive solution. Internal software should never have to be certified by another company to be able to use. Any small business like ours is going to be hurt by metro and Microsoft's certification process.

What I meant is: you won't be able to purchase the cheap upgrade if you still have a 32-bit OS, by doing a clean 64-bit install and entering your old license key for instance. Effectively the upgrade becomes twice as expensive.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

According to this you must have a previous version of Windows installed to install the Windows 8 upgrade
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...

And that is why I will most likely be shelling out for a full license. That kind of hassle and the OEM 'tied to the initial hardware' stuff isn't worth the savings in my book.

Arovin wrote:

...will not be able to integrate directly with metro apps which is what the new office apps will be.

I thought the 2013 version of office was still a desktop app. Regardless, stuff breaking compatibility seems like something you should be doing long term planning on how to handle anyway. I think Win7 is in extended support up to 2020, so you've got 7 years to figure it out. Also for deploying metro apps, there's meant to be a route for enterprise versions to install stuff outside of the MS app store environment.

Arovin wrote:

One of the things metro is changing is that desktop apps will not be able to integrate directly with metro apps which is what the new office apps will be.

They're still desktop, not exclusively metro.

Also, for a limited time, Windows Media Center is a free addon for Windows 8.

So the upgrade assistant tells me Bioshock 2 and Fallout 3 aren't compatible with Windows 8. Yippee

Chairman_Mao wrote:

So the upgrade assistant tells me Bioshock 2 and Fallout 3 aren't compatible with Windows 8. Yippee

Whaaaaat? Maybe you just need to reinstall the games after the upgrade.

I had preordered this through Amazon, and it shipped out yesterday. I got an email today saying that because I did preorder it through them, in 30 days I would get a $30 gift certificate. XCOM here I come (after a month)!

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

So the upgrade assistant tells me Bioshock 2 and Fallout 3 aren't compatible with Windows 8. Yippee

Whaaaaat? Maybe you just need to reinstall the games after the upgrade.

The upgrade assistant gives different suggestions on what to do--some apps it says there's an update to install. But for those games it only tells me to go to the developer websites to find out more. I didn't see any official info on either developer's site, but on the 2kgames forum people have commented that Bioshock 2 was consistently crashing on the Consumer Preview. On the Steam forums someone gave a similar story about Fallout 3. I've fired off support emails to both, will post any reply I get.

edit: another thing--I am surprised to see that the $70 Windows 8 Pro you can buy on Amazon.com with $30 rebate allows you to upgrade from a preview copy of Windows 8--doesn't that essentially mean you're paying the upgrade price for a full copy of the OS? Also wonder if this upgrade path is available for the $40 download version.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

edit: another thing--I am surprised to see that the $70 Windows 8 Pro you can buy on Amazon.com with $30 rebate allows you to upgrade from a preview copy of Windows 8--doesn't that essentially mean you're paying the upgrade price for a full copy of the OS? Also wonder if this upgrade path is available for the $40 download version.

I think they only allow that on preview copies that were installed over verified older version of Windows.

I purchased a fresh one from Tigerdirect today ($30 off) for only $80 plus shipping and tax for the basic Win 8.
I also took advantage of the $40 upgrade for myself and will install that at a later time.