Hawken - Catch All

Fired it up, and the servers are all full. All of them. 100%.

Lucky. In the few chances I had to play it, the servers were either empty or non-existent.

I think on servers if you can't find a game, change it to US West. I think all the servers are in that region. Haven't tried today, but that was the case last week.

Gametrailers / Spike TV are going to have some info on the beta tonight at 10PM PST. Can someone who finds out what that is post the info here?

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Gametrailers / Spike TV are going to have some info on the beta tonight at 10PM PST. Can someone who finds out what that is post the info here?

I assume it's what they posted on their forums. Basically if you were in the Alpha, you're in the closed beta. The first phase of the closed beta is 10/26-10/28, and it seems there is no NDA on vids, screenshots, etc. Notifications and keys will be mailed as early as this week.

PSA Number 2! (see scrolls thread for no 1 )

The latest PC Gamer UK has a code for priority access to the Hawken Beta. I'm not particularly interested enough to use it, so if anyone wants it, let me know.

If you've been a member at CAG for more than a year, you can get a Hawken code here.

Although I haven't gotten an announcement email, when I logged into the Hawken site this morning, it welcomed me to the closed beta, and a client was up to download. Looks like it starts tomorrow if you were in the Alpha.

One weekend only closed beta. How oddly limited when they're still 47+ days from release. It's like they think they're NCSoft or something.

Elycion wrote:

One weekend only closed beta. How oddly limited when they're still 47+ days from release. It's like they think they're NCSoft or something. :)

It's just the first of several closed beta sessions it sounds like. I assume they'll get longer until they just stay live up until open beta.

So closed beta dropped and now there is a friends list! Add Edwin to your list so we can play. There isn't an NDA so feel free to share as much as you want.

Also all the mechs look ugly as sin. The sharpshooter looks like the prototype Xbox.

http://imgur.com/a/D9jbR#2

Anyone playing the beta this weekend? I'm about to drop into some games.

EDIT: or not...server is down because the devs found a pretty bad bug.

Edwin wrote:

So closed beta dropped and now there is a friends list! Add Edwin to your list so we can play. There isn't an NDA so feel free to share as much as you want.

Also all the mechs look ugly as sin. The sharpshooter looks like the prototype Xbox.

http://imgur.com/a/D9jbR#2

Sent you an invite. My name in Hawken is straight "MannishBoy", not "TheMannishBoy" like I have to use other places some times.

Curious to hear what you guys think about it. The footage I have seen is very promising.
Also would like to hear if this model is pay to win, or more like TF2. Read a heated debate about it.
Rather hear the opinion of my fellow goodjers

I installed again and got it all up to date yesterday but ended up doing other things. Anybody going to be on this afternoon or tonight?

Sparhawk wrote:

Curious to hear what you guys think about it. The footage I have seen is very promising.
Also would like to hear if this model is pay to win, or more like TF2. Read a heated debate about it.
Rather hear the opinion of my fellow goodjers :)

I'm tired of the whole "pay to win" argument, honestly. Of the quality F2P games I've played (Tribes, Gotham City Imposters, Blacklight Retribution, Mechwarrior Online, etc.), nearly all of the "winning" stuff is available if I don't drop a dime.

Most of them have ways to speed things up and make it more convenient with money. Yes, that is true. But why expect any differently? If you get a taste of the game and like it, wouldn't you think somebody has to pay at some point? And if you don't want to pay, you either stick with something you enjoy at a bit slower progression pace, or you find something else that suits you better.

It's even worse in game chat when people who aren't any good whine about people who've put a lot of time in, and yes, might have spent a bit of money in beat them.

This mini-rant isn't directed at you as it is whoever you're referring to as being in a heated debate.

That said, so far, Hawken seems like it's going to be set up like the above games I listed for the most part. You can buy cosmetics for your mechs, speed up your progression, etc, but most things seem able to be earned with play time.

I think I'm more interested in MWO's pace than this game. Hawken's very FPS with some stompy bits, where MWO's more strategic and team driven. However, both seem fun, and I'm sure I'll play both.

Thin_J wrote:

I installed again and got it all up to date yesterday but ended up doing other things. Anybody going to be on this afternoon or tonight?

I'll probably play at some point, but I'm running man-on-man defense with the kid (wife's out of town) this weekend, so I can't really say exactly when. So add me in game.

Thanks, sounds like a healthy set up for the game. Money has to be made some how.

Still havent been able to get into a single game since yesterday. :/

Warriorpoet897 wrote:

Still havent been able to get into a single game since yesterday. :/

I ended up getting it to work last night by using the browser instead of the quick play. But even then on an open server, I had to try several times. Kind of weird.

Can't seem to redeem my code. It just hangs there on the redemption tab with its little radar thing spinning.

EDIT: Tried again with IE and it worked. Not a good sign.

I haven't played Hawken. More on that in a minute.

There are various issues to do with paying for XP boosts and so on. If you have two players of equal skill, but one has paid to progress and one hasn't, the money becomes the differentiator.

So, is it always as simple as bad players whining?

People get frustrated by losing for various reasons, but I suggest that ambiguity is an important one. For example, If I can't be sure if I died because of lag, that ambiguity feeds into a sense of unfairness.

One of the reasons Demon's Souls is good is because it feels fair. You understand why you died. So adding ambiguity through XP passes doesnt sit well with me.

Now, does Hawken have separate servers and leaserboards for people that have paid for gameplay-affecting things and those that haven't? If it did, I'd play. I dont want to stop your fun, I just don't want jeopardise my sense of competiton and fairness.

Does it have separate servers and leaderboards? It does look cool.

1Dgaf, from reading a lot of your posts, it sounds like you just don't like the F2P model. Why do you continue to stress about them? Lots of other great games out there.

No, there is no segregation in Hawken.

I'm not dead set against F2P, I just haven't seen it implemented in a way that I'm cool with yet. And I also think its important that the discussion of people complaining about F2P isn't one where people are characterised as whining.

That may well be the case in the Hawken chat room, but I've seen that kind description used elsewhere.

And the concepts of the model are spreading, so...even by playing other games, I'm dealing with its influence. Again, I'm not dead set against it. I just want it to change into something that's equitable for all and that futzses with competiton as little as possible.

Since there's no segregation, Hawken isn't for me. That's a shame, since it looks very cool.

Segregating users is never a good idea. Especially for a game as niche as this.

Vector wrote:

Segregating users is never a good idea. Especially for a game as niche as this.

Agreed.

1Dgaf wrote:

I'm not dead set against F2P, I just haven't seen it implemented in a way that I'm cool with yet. And I also think its important that the discussion of people complaining about F2P isn't one where people are characterised as whining.

A lot of time, it just is. But people always find things to whine about when they're outplayed. And game chat is not a place to have a philosophical discussion about the merits of the game progression systems in general. You're not going to get much in the way of high level discourse there. At least in my experience.

Well, unless you want to discuss deviant sexuality and various body parts.

OK Mannish, fair point.

I understand your position bout nicheness Vector, but segregation goes on all the time in games: matching players by skill.

1Dgaf wrote:

OK Mannish, fair point.

I understand your position bout nicheness Vector, but segregation goes on all the time in games: matching players by skill.

Skill based matchmaking isnt even close to a good example of the kind of segregation that you're talking about implementing. All those people have to play together from the start to determine their skill level and even after they have done so most matchmaking systems will still put differing skill levels together if the system can't find a better match.

For example, I'm currently ranked in Silver league on Starcraft 2 but am regularly matched with people in bronze, gold, and up in platinum league. The quicker the system finds me a match the more likely it will be another silver player. If the search lingers a bit before finding a result it's often a player a league or two higher. It doesn't just block me from those other players completely.

Point being I will still be matched against that much larger player pool.

In the kind of split you're talking about you're just splitting the community right from the start by putting a wall between the haves and the have nots. You're shrinking the total player pool before you've even started. Not something that's generally a good idea.

To make a skill based matchmaking system the same as what you're talking about it has to be completely ruling out a significant portion of the playerbase completely.

Not to mention in most of these F2P, the functional upgrades are nearly always available to earn. So if you take a free player that's played a ton vs a new free player, you've once again created an inequality of knowledge of game, skill earned from practice of that game, and possibly gear. Just like life, things are never really equal.

I really think there should be a thread on this high level philosophy of F2P game design vs having this same discussion in every single F2P game that hits. There's some level of game specificity that should stay in the threads, but that generally just gets hidden in a bunch of post about the general model vs that particular game.

Just my $.02, and now I've said my piece on it. Just a suggestion, as obviously I have no control here

Maybe I've just gotten old enough that I don't have to feel like I'm always winning to the point it makes me mad about something in real life if I feel I'm limited by the systems in place. If I don't like a game, or a game type (for instance MMOs), I just move on and find other things to play and discuss that fits my tastes better.

Perhaps Hawken could have a filter where you can choose what kind of matching you want. Paid, unpaid and mixed. I think there are options to explore. As I said, I don't want to stop Mannish or Vector having fun. But how we can make it so Hawken's devs get people like me in, too?

Thin_J wrote:

... most matchmaking systems will still put differing skill levels together if the system can't find a better match.

THe 'can't find a better match' is important, because it shows that the aim of the system is appropriate segregation. Why do they segregate? Well, perhaps it's to try to ensure as equitable an experience as possible. To get rid of a sense of unfairness.

Of course it will be difficult. THere will be technical and other challenges as you suggest, but not insurmountable ones I hope. But, hey. You lot will play Hawken, I won't. That's how it goes.

I think I should point out that I haven't played the game and don't plan on playing any time soon. I'm not Hawken will draw a large enough audience to necessitate any form of segregation. Marketing wise it's also a poor idea to separate players that pay and those that don't. You want the free to play people to see first hand what benefits paying gets them.