iPad Mini

trueheart78 wrote:

iPad 2's still rocking the $399 tag, so my big recommendation is: go find someplace that still has the iPad 3 classic edition™ and see how low they're selling them for. Still fantastic devices, and if you can get it for anything lower, go for it. I'm struggling to find a reason why they are keeping the 2 around, though...

IMAGE(http://i.th78.me/apple/ipad_oct_2012_lineup.jpg)

I try to keep up with how tech is developing but I am never in the market for Apple products. That picture just reminded me why.

I kinda understand if the specific product has no exact substitution or the supposed substitutions are clearly inferior.... but wow those prices.

I was in the market for a cheap MP3 player this month when my phone stopped recognizing my headphones. Was underwhelmed when I was doing my online investigating. Showed up to the store planning to buy a cheap no name whatever to just get the job done and was pleasantly surprised to see the SanDisk Sansa available. 20 bucks cheaper then the shuffle and IMO I'm missing out on nothing and actually gaining that I don't have to use Itunes.

Pretty happy with my Nexus 7 so far but I would say it hasn't been life altering in my habits.

jowner wrote:

SanDisk Sansa available.

I love those as Audiobook players. So great for the money, size, bookmarking if books are loaded properly, etc.

You can't deny that most people get a buzz from having the newest thing out there. Whether it be the best CPU, newest model of a car, or an iPad. In many cases you are paying a premium for that buzz. Once a newer version comes out you loose that buzz, and you evaluate if that premium was worth it. 12-18 months seems to be a fair amount of time to stay at the top, but only 6 months will make some consumers thing twice before paying that premium again. That being said the new iPad is just a CPU upgrade, but I can still understand the frustration.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the new iMacs? I'm way overdue for a Mac upgrade and the 21 inch iMacs are probably in my price range. The specs seem OK but dunno why they put in a 5400 rpm drive.

The 5400 rpm drive is probably to save power. I'd get one if I could. The $1500 21.5" comes with a GT 650M, so it's almost on par with the $1500 Alienware M14x (more: 21.5" vs 14", 1920x1080 vs 1600x900; less: i5 vs i7, 8 GB RAM vs 12 GB, 512 MB VRAM vs 2 GB, no optical drive vs Blu-ray). Current games? On my Mac? It's more likely than you think.

But even if I weren't looking for a dual-boot gaming machine, I'd still get the new iMac if I could.

MannishBoy wrote:
jowner wrote:

SanDisk Sansa available.

I love those as Audiobook players. So great for the money, size, bookmarking if books are loaded properly, etc.

And I'm pretty sure knowing about it was buried in the back of my brain from probably reading about it here on the forums. Became an easy purchase decision when the options going in were 1. No name Chinese brand that had very questionable reviews online 2. Pony up for a shuffle. 2 wasn't an option for me as I really don't like Itunes and would rather take a chance on getting by on something cheaper.

PoderOmega wrote:

You can't deny that most people get a buzz from having the newest thing out there. Whether it be the best CPU, newest model of a car, or an iPad. In many cases you are paying a premium for that buzz. Once a newer version comes out you loose that buzz, and you evaluate if that premium was worth it. 12-18 months seems to be a fair amount of time to stay at the top, but only 6 months will make some consumers thing twice before paying that premium again. That being said the new iPad is just a CPU upgrade, but I can still understand the frustration.

I usually don't buy in to that buzz because yea your pretty much burning cash to satisfy your immediate want to have the new shiny thing. I did for the Nexus 7. Its cool but not groundbreaking for me.

Its going to be interesting to see what Apple has up their sleeves in the long run. They are riding pretty high right now as the default leader for people who don't vet their purchase decisions. The larger Iphone and the smaller Ipad kinda proves that theres some holes in there offerings compared to what people want and they had to take notice.

Gravey wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the new iMacs? I'm way overdue for a Mac upgrade and the 21 inch iMacs are probably in my price range. The specs seem OK but dunno why they put in a 5400 rpm drive.

The 5400 rpm drive is probably to save power. I'd get one if I could. The $1500 21.5" comes with a GT 650M, so it's almost on par with the $1500 Alienware M14x (more: 21.5" vs 14", 1920x1080 vs 1600x900; less: i5 vs i7, 8 GB RAM vs 12 GB, 512 MB VRAM vs 2 GB, no optical drive vs Blu-ray). Current games? On my Mac? It's more likely than you think.

But even if I weren't looking for a dual-boot gaming machine, I'd still get the new iMac if I could.

512MB of VRAM on 1080P screen is criminal.. I mean It makes me laugh...

edit..also you know the quality gaming PC you could get for $1500?

Certis wrote:

I can sell my original iPad (1st gen) for around $200 and just ordered a refurb 16GB iPad 3rd gen for $379. I feel like I'm sitting in the sweet spot waiting so long between iterations. The original iPad is still great for most of the things I used it for.

I agree. The real standout is the lack of a camera. Once you get a family on the Apple ecosystem then the lack of a camera for Facetime is kind of a drag. Considering upgrading my mother-in-law to a discounted iPad 2 or 3 for this reason.

TheGameguru wrote:
Gravey wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the new iMacs? I'm way overdue for a Mac upgrade and the 21 inch iMacs are probably in my price range. The specs seem OK but dunno why they put in a 5400 rpm drive.

The 5400 rpm drive is probably to save power. I'd get one if I could. The $1500 21.5" comes with a GT 650M, so it's almost on par with the $1500 Alienware M14x (more: 21.5" vs 14", 1920x1080 vs 1600x900; less: i5 vs i7, 8 GB RAM vs 12 GB, 512 MB VRAM vs 2 GB, no optical drive vs Blu-ray). Current games? On my Mac? It's more likely than you think.

But even if I weren't looking for a dual-boot gaming machine, I'd still get the new iMac if I could.

512MB of VRAM on 1080P screen is criminal.. I mean It makes me laugh...

edit..also you know the quality gaming PC you could get for $1500?

You do know even the best gaming PC doesn't come with OS X? Come on, GG, it's 2012, let's not revisit that rabbit hole. Obviously it'd be a compromise for someone who wants a Mac that can also dual-boot for Windows games. So let's just stick to this: is 512 MB of VRAM a real deal-breaker? At 1080p, would 512 MB mean new releases are out of the question, or anything over medium settings is unrealistic, or what?

So let's just stick to this: is 512 MB of VRAM a real deal-breaker? At 1080p, would 512 MB mean new releases are out of the question, or anything over medium settings is unrealistic, or what?

512MB of RAM on the video card will impact your gaming viability for playing a LOT of games in the next year or so. Considering you'd be buying a closed system with no upgrade potential it's a definite factor in the purchase decision.

Gravey wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Gravey wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the new iMacs? I'm way overdue for a Mac upgrade and the 21 inch iMacs are probably in my price range. The specs seem OK but dunno why they put in a 5400 rpm drive.

The 5400 rpm drive is probably to save power. I'd get one if I could. The $1500 21.5" comes with a GT 650M, so it's almost on par with the $1500 Alienware M14x (more: 21.5" vs 14", 1920x1080 vs 1600x900; less: i5 vs i7, 8 GB RAM vs 12 GB, 512 MB VRAM vs 2 GB, no optical drive vs Blu-ray). Current games? On my Mac? It's more likely than you think.

But even if I weren't looking for a dual-boot gaming machine, I'd still get the new iMac if I could.

512MB of VRAM on 1080P screen is criminal.. I mean It makes me laugh...

edit..also you know the quality gaming PC you could get for $1500?

You do know even the best gaming PC doesn't come with OS X? Come on, GG, it's 2012, let's not revisit that rabbit hole. Obviously it'd be a compromise for someone who wants a Mac that can also dual-boot for Windows games. So let's just stick to this: is 512 MB of VRAM a real deal-breaker? At 1080p, would 512 MB mean new releases are out of the question, or anything over medium settings is unrealistic, or what?

Sure but then...buy a Mac Mini....a Gaming PC for $750 and a nice LCD for $250 with a Display Port and a DVI Port and call it a day.. best of both worlds.

edit the 27" iMac with 1440P resolution is even more painful saddled with a mobile GPU that can basically drive 1080P.. I mean..thats all Apple can do given the form factor so its better than nothing I suppose.

Wow, that new iMac. Can you say, apple tv when it is available as a 50 inch model?

Certis wrote:
So let's just stick to this: is 512 MB of VRAM a real deal-breaker? At 1080p, would 512 MB mean new releases are out of the question, or anything over medium settings is unrealistic, or what?

512MB of RAM on the video card will impact your gaming viability for playing a LOT of games in the next year or so. Considering you'd be buying a closed system with no upgrade potential it's a definite factor in the purchase decision.

Last week's Tech Report podcast was basically recommending 1 or 2 GB vRAM minimum when shopping for new cards even if you're locked at 1080p.

TheGameguru wrote:

edit the 27" iMac with 1440P resolution is even more painful saddled with a mobile GPU that can basically drive 1080P.. I mean..thats all Apple can do given the form factor so its better than nothing I suppose.

Yeah, but it'll look real nice on the receptionist's desk.

Ulairi wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

As someone who bought an iPad 3 at launch, I feel really burned by this... what a load of crap. I was fully down with the idea that my iPad would be "replaced" in a year, and that was OK... but SIX f*ckING MONTHS? And it's being totally phased out? W. T. F?

Really, really annoyed.

Annoyed enough to change your buying habits? You own an iPhone, MacBook and an iPad. They know you're not going anywhere. I know Malor gets hit on a lot for ranting about this but I am so afraid of these closed ecosystems because it makes it a lot easier for companies to be dicks to their customers because we are locked in. Once we start buying things from iTunes, Play, etc we are stuck unless we want to rebuy the same content. It's horrible.

Yes. Definitely thinking about it. I have a Macbook through work, and while I like it, I don't feel any need to upgrade it (probably because it's not mine); I'm still using my iPhone 4. The iPad was my only real "full price" Apple purchase, and I thought I was being smart waiting for the new screen and buying it on launch. Serves me right. That "know I have the best tech for at least a year" feeling was something I always appreciated.

I do have a small investment in software, and the platform *IS* the best place to be for mobile apps by and large (especially gaming), so I don't know if I want to switch for that reason... but two devices in a single year is a pretty low-down nut punch.

Ulairi wrote:

I think what has people feeling "offended" is that they have certain expectations when it comes to Apple. Apple refreshes their product on a 12-18 month cycle and that is what they expect when they buy it. I think that, and I don't want to speak for SommerMatt, that if he would have known that the iPad 4 would have released 6 months after the iPad 3, he may have waited.

But, because there will be another iPad 5 next year it's not like he's going to be that hurt if he decides to upgrade.

This is exactly correct. Apple has always had a "yearly" product cycle, and that was why I never bit on the iPad 1 or 2... I was waiting for something BIG (the retina display) and bought it on the first day to guarantee I'd have the latest product for the longest time possible. I just feel like I got screwed and used to pad their quarterly sales figures... I absolutely would have waited if I'd have known this model was coming out.

I appreciate (sort of) the desire to standardize the new connecter across the entire product line, but it definitely comes across as a cheap shot to those who bought an iPad 3.

I "get" that this is essentially the same product with a different processor... isn't the FaceTime camera also upgraded? But still, when you're talking a doubling of processing power, it's nothing to sneeze at.

SommerMatt wrote:

But still, when you're talking a doubling of processing power, it's nothing to sneeze at.

I still think you're overly concerned, and your current ipad is perfectly fine. App developers aren't going to start pushing the limits of the newer processor for awhile. I'd say it takes a couple of years for that to get close to the dominant processor across phones, tablets, etc. Plus, they wouldn't want to put out things that would run like crap on the just announced mini, either.

Not to mention the "doubled" processor power term is probably a bit suspect in real world terms. Apple does tend to make things sound a bit more dramatic than reality when it comes to their underlying tech. I'm sure it's a nice bump, but definitely not something to make your current ipad any worse than it is today.

This is part of buying tech, and has been for 20 years or more. There's always something better right around the corner, but that doesn't make what you're using do the stuff you're doing with it any worse. Once I got comfortable not always having to have the cutting edge, I feel much better, and so does my wallet.

Basically what MannishBoy said. Because Apple hardware lasts so long and carries its value developers do have to think about older hardware, especially in the iOS space. Apple officially stops supporting hardware eventually, which is a different model than PCs where you can constantly upgrade hardware. And a different model than consoles where upgrade cycles tend to last longer.

But my experience has been that a device will be supported well into the 3rd or 4th year. You're also talking about apps and games that generally range from Free - $5.00. Most apps are $0.99. At those prices the margins are really really small. Most apps aren't hits. Developers can't afford to ignore 3/4 or more of the entire installed base. So they typically don't ignore them. You'll be fine with your iPad 3.

SommerMatt wrote:

Apple has always had a "yearly" product cycle, and that was why I never bit on the iPad 1 or 2... I was waiting for something BIG (the retina display) and bought it on the first day to guarantee I'd have the latest product for the longest time possible. I just feel like I got screwed and used to pad their quarterly sales figures... I absolutely would have waited if I'd have known this model was coming out.

I appreciate (sort of) the desire to standardize the new connecter across the entire product line, but it definitely comes across as a cheap shot to those who bought an iPad 3.

Yeah, establishing a pattern and then departing from it is the annoying thing Apple did there. I wonder whether it means that they're trying to get away from putting out a new iPad model every spring, and switch to speed-bumping them whenever they feel like it (like they do for Macs).

I found the new connector a disincentive to upgrade to an iPhone 5, and now it looks like a reason to keep using that phone until I want to get a new iPad as well. (How long is the typical service life for an iOS device, anyway? Or how long will it take before that question is answerable for iPads?)

You guys understand that I *know* my current iPad 3 (which has disappeared as if it never existed from the Apple store) is "perfectly fine," right? I know it's still the same as it ever was, and I *know* that it is going to continue to work. It's the "6 months instead of a year" thing that bothers me about this... spending $700 with the tacit understanding that I'd be good until at least March of 2013.

If I would have WANTED to deal with a new tablet coming out every six months, I would have gone with an Android device in the first place

SommerMatt wrote:

You guys understand that I *know* my current iPad 3 (which has disappeared as if it never existed from the Apple store) is "perfectly fine," right? I know it's still the same as it ever was, and I *know* that it is going to continue to work. It's the "6 months instead of a year" thing that bothers me about this... spending $700 with the tacit understanding that I'd be good until at least March of 2013.

What we don't understand is why you think you have to have the very, very latest, enough that you get mad when you don't. Is it a status thing? Because logically, nothing they announced today will make things significantly better in regards to apps for quite awhile. Another generation or so of ipads.

My iMac is the early 2008 model, and I've been waiting for the upgrade announcement. It's been too long since an iMac upgrade. I'm not too worried about playing the latest games - I have consoles for that. I just want to play Diablo 3 (which I can now) and maybe Guild Wars 2. The new models look really nice, but no disc drive is pretty surprising. I sometimes burn DVDs through iMovie, and I wonder if they will put out an external drive, like they did with the MacBook Air. I certainly don't need to get it now - perhaps I'll wait and see what the tax situation is like next year.

I was actually quite eager to jump on the iPad mini, but after reviewing the specs I think I'll wait for the next iteration when they will probably slap Retina display on them.

I actually already have an external DVD drive as my MBP drive died a while ago. But the lack of VRAM is definitely something for me to consider.

MannishBoy wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

You guys understand that I *know* my current iPad 3 (which has disappeared as if it never existed from the Apple store) is "perfectly fine," right? I know it's still the same as it ever was, and I *know* that it is going to continue to work. It's the "6 months instead of a year" thing that bothers me about this... spending $700 with the tacit understanding that I'd be good until at least March of 2013.

What we don't understand is why you think you have to have the very, very latest, enough that you get mad when you don't. Is it a status thing? Because logically, nothing they announced today will make things significantly better in regards to apps for quite awhile. Another generation or so of ipads.

This, basically. I understand that you feel burned, Matt. The reality, though, is that the new iPad isn't going to be that much more performant over the existing iPad in terms of practical applications. And games / apps will be tuned to it every bit as much as the new iPad. What that iPad will be capable of doing (unless you planned on rooting it and using it for complex raw calculations) won't be a significant drop, if any, from the new iPad.

I was interested in the iPad mini, but given that my 2006 iMac just packed up I think I might have to postpone buying one for a while. The new iMacs look pretty nice - speccing out a similar Dell doesn't seem all that much cheaper. That issue with the VRAM seems a bit silly though, perhaps they're just trying to keep a place for the Mac Pro (if they ever update it)?

I don't know, maybe I should just return to the world of home-made PCs.

I'm dreaming but it would be nice if there is at least a VRAM upgrade option when you order. I don't believe previous iMacs have had it though.

Edit: A closer look at the store shows the highest end iMac has an upgrade option on the video card but not the 21 inch models. Boo.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

I'm dreaming but it would be nice if there is at least a VRAM upgrade option when you order. I don't believe previous iMacs have had it though.

Edit: A closer look at the store shows the highest end iMac has an upgrade option on the video card but not the 21 inch models. Boo.

even on the high end its moot.. that mobile GPU even with 2GB of Vram is hopelessly crippled for 1440P. I'm sure some games could run at medium details and lower but at that price..yikes..

Write up by Anand on Fusion. Seems it's partially cache like the Intel stuff, partially just an OS level prioritization of files to move to the SSD.

MannishBoy wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

You guys understand that I *know* my current iPad 3 (which has disappeared as if it never existed from the Apple store) is "perfectly fine," right? I know it's still the same as it ever was, and I *know* that it is going to continue to work. It's the "6 months instead of a year" thing that bothers me about this... spending $700 with the tacit understanding that I'd be good until at least March of 2013.

What we don't understand is why you think you have to have the very, very latest, enough that you get mad when you don't. Is it a status thing? Because logically, nothing they announced today will make things significantly better in regards to apps for quite awhile. Another generation or so of ipads.

Because it's a cool feeling to have the new hotness? I understand the desire, even if I don't often share it.

Certis wrote:
So let's just stick to this: is 512 MB of VRAM a real deal-breaker? At 1080p, would 512 MB mean new releases are out of the question, or anything over medium settings is unrealistic, or what?

512MB of RAM on the video card will impact your gaming viability for playing a LOT of games in the next year or so. Considering you'd be buying a closed system with no upgrade potential it's a definite factor in the purchase decision.

Yeah, it's not haterade to say that at that resolution you're looking at Medium settings at best, probably low resolution textures and frame rates will be all over the place.

Look, it will probably work, but I can't imagine it being satisfying.

*edit to add*

I've been eying an iPad for ages now, nearly pulled the trigger a month ago, but now I'll probably stay away. I have no faith that Apple will be able to keep the South African maps updated since moving away from Google, and hitting the limits of my fiances iPad 2 has become frustrating.

The worst part about dropping the number designation is that now I will have to start looking at model numbers on the back in order to know if I am buying a 3 or 4 when I buy a used one. It just makes it harder for consumers.

Annoyed enough to change your buying habits?

Yes. I am a longtime Apple guy - a musician, audio producer, and have been using them almost exclusively for the past 15 years. We have 2 iPhones, an iPad 3, & an iMac in our home, and I switched my dad over to OS X a few years ago and just recently bought my mom an iPad. The last 2 or 3 years have really disillusioned me, though, and I'm no longer viewing Apple as exclusive in my home. I'm considering my next PC purchase and highly suspect it will be a PC. I'm switching to WinPhone 8 when it launches, I'm getting a Surface, and will probably move my composing rig over to Windows soon, too.

Maybe I'm unique, but Apple isn't winning me over these days.

I'm not sure if your sentiment has hit anywhere near critical mass within Apple's die-hard faithful but given what I've been reading in comments and on Twitter (which I know doesn't really count for much), you definitely aren't unique. Apple should be paying close attention to this. I'm not going to reiterate the point I've harped on for a while about their growth trend but if some real die-hard fans are getting as miffed as you, their tide could change quickly if they aren't careful.