A personal announcement, emphatic thank-you, and cheers to Fedora.

Hypatian wrote:

Not this year. My life's a little too complicated and messy for me to feel up to traveling right now. I'll definitely plan to attend in the future.

If you can't bring Hypatian to PenCon, bring PenCon to her!

PittCon? PennCon?

Something that we considered doing but since it's so close to Ohio anyway, it wasn't really in the running.

Who knows about next year, though? Maybe moving East a bit will work out then.

Anyway, not the thread for that discussion =)

clover wrote:

PittCon? PennCon?

=)

oilypenguin wrote:

Something that we considered doing but since it's so close to Ohio anyway, it wasn't really in the running.

Who knows about next year, though? Maybe moving East a bit will work out then.

Anyway, not the thread for that discussion =)

clover wrote:

PittCon? PennCon?

=)

I'm all for that!

PennaCon

Wait, we're going pasta next year? PenneCon?

Thus, all threads collapse into this singularity.

NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

Mike, I didn't read it as snarky at all. I haven't had a chance to answer, as I'm coping with the plague. (I'm thinking of wearing a sign around my neck, reading, "Unclean.")

Anyhow, this is one of those threads where expressing your emotions was part of the point of the thread, in a way. You're dealing with a lot of major changes in your life right now, many to do with coming out. There's bound to be a bit of emotional fallout from so much upheaval (sorry for the fearfully mixed metaphors - cold meds make me loopy), and it wouldn't be at all inappropriate to express some of that here.

If you ever want to vent privately, or in more detail, feel free to PM me. I can't necessarily offer to have any answers, but I'm glad to be a sounding-board.

SallyNasty wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

All I know is that here in about a week's time a hairy Irish/Italian guy is going to give you a hug.

Dude. This is the second or third time you've hit on NSMike. Just get permission from Mrs. Nasty to explore your orientation and get it on!

Elysia wrote:

There's bound to be a bit of emotional fallout from so much upheaval (sorry for the fearfully mixed metaphors - cold meds make me loopy)

Nonsense. It's the upheaval that carries the fallout everywhere, spread over the ground and up into the atmosphere. A brilliantly constructed metaphor!

NSMike wrote:

That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

I had half a post written on my phone but wanted to get this right. It happens.

Man, look what you did here. You took a brave step that has probably brought a lot of people together, happily, who might not have otherwise known they were among friends. I really do hope that you find yourself in a happier place soon. You most certainly deserve it.

I told the classmate/friend that I really needed to talk to last night. It went surprisingly well, even though I said waaaay more than intended.

Good infographic I found on transphobic terminology

Trigger warning: transphobic terminology (duh)

ClockworkHouse wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

All I know is that here in about a week's time a hairy Irish/Italian guy is going to give you a hug.

Dude. This is the second or third time you've hit on NSMike. Just get permission from Mrs. Nasty to explore your orientation and get it on!

When was the other time? Can't a guy be friendly and supportive without having ulterior motives?

Oh, Clockette.

SallyNasty wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

All I know is that here in about a week's time a hairy Irish/Italian guy is going to give you a hug.

Dude. This is the second or third time you've hit on NSMike. Just get permission from Mrs. Nasty to explore your orientation and get it on!

When was the other time? Can't a guy be friendly and supportive without having ulterior motives?

Oh, Clockette.

Wouldn't those be posterior motives?

Tanglebones wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

All I know is that here in about a week's time a hairy Irish/Italian guy is going to give you a hug.

Dude. This is the second or third time you've hit on NSMike. Just get permission from Mrs. Nasty to explore your orientation and get it on!

When was the other time? Can't a guy be friendly and supportive without having ulterior motives?

Oh, Clockette.

Wouldn't those be posterior motives?

Depends on which color hanky he's wearing and where.

Is that still a thing people do?

garion333 wrote:

Is that still a thing people do?

Not really, but it hearkens back to a time long distant where gay men went to these things called "bars".

Rubb Ed wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Is that still a thing people do?

Not really, but it hearkens back to a time long distant where gay men went to these things called "bars".

So like Grindr but in meatspace? Craziness!

Rubb Ed wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Is that still a thing people do?

Not really, but it hearkens back to a time long distant where gay men went to these things called "bars".

The more you know...

*cue NSMike's avatar and some inspirational music*

Elysia wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Sorry, rereading that a day later, it looks a little snarky. That was not my intent. I just didn't want to emotion-vomit in a public venue, so I was trying to be succinct and polite. Looks like I did the opposite.

Mike, I didn't read it as snarky at all. I haven't had a chance to answer, as I'm coping with the plague. (I'm thinking of wearing a sign around my neck, reading, "Unclean.")

Anyhow, this is one of those threads where expressing your emotions was part of the point of the thread, in a way. You're dealing with a lot of major changes in your life right now, many to do with coming out. There's bound to be a bit of emotional fallout from so much upheaval (sorry for the fearfully mixed metaphors - cold meds make me loopy), and it wouldn't be at all inappropriate to express some of that here.

If you ever want to vent privately, or in more detail, feel free to PM me. I can't necessarily offer to have any answers, but I'm glad to be a sounding-board. :)

Most of what I'm dealing with right now has to do with another member of the community whom I want very much to continue to feel welcome here. Nothing would be served by publicly posting things.

I appreciate the offers, truly, but this community is treasured by both of us, and I don't want to do anything even remotely likely to drive him away.

And to be blunt, but without any intention of offense, even those extremely kind and open offerings of help that I have already privately received from the community have done little, through no fault of anyone. I don't know what I need right now. Time is the common element among all suggestions. Perhaps that's all I've got. I don't form relationships of any kind with people casually or lightly, and I've never had one just... End. All of the old friends in my past that I don't see anymore, we've just drifted apart. I've never been in the situation where someone tells me that our relationship is now over, and I have to respect that. I can't process that. And I can't help feeling like I did something terribly wrong.

Edits to add some thoughts and remove others.

I don't form relationships of any kind with people casually or lightly, and I've never had one just... End.

Those firsts are the worst. Hang in there.

garion333 wrote:
I don't form relationships of any kind with people casually or lightly, and I've never had one just... End.

Those firsts are the worst. Hang in there.

This times 100.

Tanglebones wrote:

Good infographic I found on transphobic terminology

Trigger warning: transphobic terminology (duh)

I would be hesitant to call someone transphobic if they ask one or two of those questions out of genuine ignorance. I know that even just a few years ago, I was ignorant regarding transgender concerns, and when I would ask questions like that, I was making a genuine effort to wrap my mind around what was (for me) a very foreign concept. But my intent was to understand so that I could accept and empathize.

Fortunately my intent was understood, so I got patient responses that helped me understand better.

Farscry wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Good infographic I found on transphobic terminology

Trigger warning: transphobic terminology (duh)

I would be hesitant to call someone transphobic if they ask one or two of those questions out of genuine ignorance. I know that even just a few years ago, I was ignorant regarding transgender concerns, and when I would ask questions like that, I was making a genuine effort to wrap my mind around what was (for me) a very foreign concept. But my intent was to understand so that I could accept and empathize.

Fortunately my intent was understood, so I got patient responses that helped me understand better. :)

We had the same discussion on IRC; I think you're right, in that some of the questions, like preferred pronoun, aren't immediately apparent - on the other hand, someone (Hypatian?) posted a story earlier in the thread about an abusive employee at a DMV continually referring to a transperson by the wrong pronoun as a belittling maneuver. Tone matters, as does intent.

NSMike wrote:

And to be blunt, but without any intention of offense, even those extremely kind and open offerings of help that I have already privately received from the community have done little, through no fault of anyone. I don't know what I need right now. Time is the common element among all suggestions. Perhaps that's all I've got. I don't form relationships of any kind with people casually or lightly, and I've never had one just... End. All of the old friends in my past that I don't see anymore, we've just drifted apart. I've never been in the situation where someone tells me that our relationship is now over, and I have to respect that. I can't process that. And I can't help feeling like I did something terribly wrong.

Blunt is good in this case.

And you know from my messages to you that unfortunately I very much empathize with your current struggle. I do wish I could do more to help, as we can obviously see that others here do too, but yeah. Unfortunately we can only offer ears to listen and encouragement whenever you're needing it.

And yeah, I completely know how little that can sometimes help, even if you appreciate that people care about you.

Farscry wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Good infographic I found on transphobic terminology

Trigger warning: transphobic terminology (duh)

I would be hesitant to call someone transphobic if they ask one or two of those questions out of genuine ignorance. I know that even just a few years ago, I was ignorant regarding transgender concerns, and when I would ask questions like that, I was making a genuine effort to wrap my mind around what was (for me) a very foreign concept. But my intent was to understand so that I could accept and empathize.

Fortunately my intent was understood, so I got patient responses that helped me understand better. :)

The terminology is still transphobic, whether the speaker is or not. For related discussion of racist language, see this amazing Ill Doctrine video that I will never stop sharing with people:

cube wrote:
Rubb Ed wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Is that still a thing people do?

Not really, but it hearkens back to a time long distant where gay men went to these things called "bars".

The more you know...

*cue NSMike's avatar and some inspirational music*

wordsmythe wrote:

The terminology is still transphobic, whether the speaker is or not. For related discussion of racist language, see this amazing Ill Doctrine video that I will never stop sharing with people:

And you shouldn't stop sharing as that video was fantastic. I hadn't seen that and now have it logged for future use.

wordsmythe wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I would be hesitant to call someone transphobic if they ask one or two of those questions out of genuine ignorance.

The terminology is still transphobic, whether the speaker is or not.

Oh, please don't misunderstand me; I wasn't trying to claim that the terminology itself isn't transphobic. Just that it's important to carefully evaluate if someone is asking out of ignorance rather than transphobia; if so, then you can use their questions as a good educational opportunity (including explaining to them why the terminology is hurtful).

Racist terminology is an excellent parallel. I've had to deal with educating people who use racist terminology out of ignorance rather than informed intent. It's uncomfortable for them (and I've been in that position of being the ignorant one myself) because no one likes to face the fact that they've unwittingly spoken in a hurtful manner, but it still is a worthwhile discussion.

Edit: and yes, that video is awesome!

I think that poster is better as a "kick-starter" for thinking about these things, rather than a list of "stuff not to do". A jumping-off point for thinking about what it must feel like to be in that position, and how to behave thoughtfully around people who are.

Although it's also good as "if you see a trans person and some asshat is treating them like this intentionally and they're clearly not okay with it, please help them".