Arkane's Dishonored

Maybe parrying is what I'm thinking of then? In the first fight a little notification popped up telling me that hitting R2 (PS3 player here) at the right moment would cause them to stumble back. Holding R2 seems to be only partially effective as these guys sure hammer down on you.

I haven't read the last couple hundred posts, I just wanted to chime in. After I returned my original copy, I rented it to see what it was like. This is awesome. I love that these super difficult games are coming back into popularity like dark souls, issac, meatboy, etc... I can't even get out of the prison, still trying to figure out the explosive swarm part.

ibdoomed wrote:

I can't even get out of the prison, still trying to figure out the explosive swarm part.

...what?

I didn't do any explosive swarm myself. I was able to stealth past most of the guards after the initial two and then ran for the sewers. After that I'm pretty sure you can mostly get through the sewers without trouble (I had to kill one man and then, ALMOST at the end, was spotted and had to run to a man by a boat that took his time despite a bunch of guards yelling and shooting at me from behind).

ccesarano wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

I can't even get out of the prison, still trying to figure out the explosive swarm part.

...what?

I didn't do any explosive swarm myself. I was able to stealth past most of the guards after the initial two and then ran for the sewers. After that I'm pretty sure you can mostly get through the sewers without trouble (I had to kill one man and then, ALMOST at the end, was spotted and had to run to a man by a boat that took his time despite a bunch of guards yelling and shooting at me from behind).

Didn't you have to plant explosives on a door? I'll look around but I've not seen another way through. I've been stuck on the swarm of guards that come after the explosive goes off. I've tried hiding in the crate, hiding under the table, hiding in the shadows, closing the previous door and not, and trying to re-close the door. I've also tried killing them but last count was 12 before they overwhelmed me and I don't know how many there are. I like the challenge though, trial and error to find the way the devs intended this part to be completed, it's like a puzzle game.

ibdoomed wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

I can't even get out of the prison, still trying to figure out the explosive swarm part.

...what?

I didn't do any explosive swarm myself. I was able to stealth past most of the guards after the initial two and then ran for the sewers. After that I'm pretty sure you can mostly get through the sewers without trouble (I had to kill one man and then, ALMOST at the end, was spotted and had to run to a man by a boat that took his time despite a bunch of guards yelling and shooting at me from behind).

Didn't you have to plant explosives on a door? I'll look around but I've not seen another way through. I've been stuck on the swarm of guards that come after the explosive goes off. I've tried hiding in the crate, hiding under the table, hiding in the shadows, closing the previous door and not, and trying to re-close the door. I've also tried killing them but last count was 12 before they overwhelmed me and I don't know how many there are. I like the challenge though, trial and error to find the way the devs intended this part to be completed, it's like a puzzle game.

As soon as the bomb goes off, run like hell through the opening and jump.

I got three the sewers without being detected and with one death - I think that was me putting an unconscious guard over a balcony.

I wish the game did two things

-A slight visual indication of being in shadow
IE Tinted color/light jewel/icon

-A color change when I can blink onto a ledge

I wish the game aimed blink where your cursor was pointing and just went red if it was too far for your current level.

So I suck at stealth. A lot. And I decided to try and go through Dunwall Whiskey Distillery and find the bone thing in there. It's f*cking hard. Do I get the chance to go back to a lot of these locations later?

Always look up. Street level is almost always the worst choice.

I'm re-playing and finding lots of stuff I missed the first time around. Secret rooms, more books, all those paintings, and brand new ways to eliminate my main target. Having a great time again. And now that I finally figured out that I can teleport while carrying dead bodies, sneaking really isn't that hard.

ccesarano wrote:

I wish the game aimed blink where your cursor was pointing and just went red if it was too far for your current level.

If it did that, it would be much trickier to use for quick blinking while in combat.

ccesarano wrote:

So I suck at stealth. A lot. And I decided to try and go through Dunwall Whiskey Distillery and find the bone thing in there. It's f*cking hard. Do I get the chance to go back to a lot of these locations later?

Runes and bone charms are exclusive to the mission you are on. You'll get to revisit the distillery, but it will be slightly different. As for stealth, are you looking for more vertical paths to take? The distillery has almost an entire thoroughfare in its ceiling.

JohnKillo wrote:

I wish the game did two things

-A slight visual indication of being in shadow
IE Tinted color/light jewel/icon

-A color change when I can blink onto a ledge

You shouldn't rely on shadows. As someone said before in the thread, this is not Thief, and while shadows can *help*, line of sight is just about the biggest factor to stealth. (aside from sound, which won't be a problem if you're crouching)

Spoiler:

I killed the Lord Regent by using Whirlwind to push him into his own Arc barrier, that was pretty damn satisfying.

I still think this is way too good of a guard murdering simulator to play as ghost, but maybe the assassins will change my tune.

I'm not quite out of the sewers yet, but I am LOVING this game!

I started to get really frustrated with the stealth kills in the area before the sewers, to the point where I was about to swear a lot and loudly.

Bugger, they saw me, reload. Got past you! Bugger, new guy saw me, forgot to save, sh*t, reload, do first guy, NOW save, good, second guy, bugger, line of sight again...

I was about to file it in the 'not for me' bin, when I fired it up again, this time 'just playing' it.

What a blast! Who cares about killing? I'll do a non-lethal run later.

Also, top tip, be neat with your carnage. I left a body on a lower deck exposed. The guy I snuck up on so many times before (the first one you see through a keyhole) was no longer there. Instead of looking over the edge so I could sneak behind him, he spotted the carcass, then legged it down the stairs!

Also, it seems you can 'grab' a head you've sliced off (or hand) and throw it, in much the same way as you can a bottle, to distract the other guards in the room. You get a slightly different reaction though.

Niiiice

m0nk3yboy wrote:

What a blast! Who cares about killing? I'll do a non-lethal run later.

Yes!
This worked for me.
Play a role, instead of playing the game. Mastering the machine is not what makes it fun for me. Enjoy a story. Create a story. How boring would a movie be if the good guy did everything perfectly?

After spending a ridiculous amount of time playing and replaying sections to get a clean stealth run only to have the game tell me I killed someone (I'm sure I didn't; rats must have gotten someone) I switched to trying to be sneaky but willing to kill any guard who did spot me and found the game much more satisfying. Oh, you saw me? That was your last mistake.

My other big realization was that I don't have to get rid of everyone in the level. Get up on a ledge, blink across to a pipe, break open a skylight, drop down then go out the back door. That's another half-dozen guards I can ignore instead of having to deal with.

I'm also finding much more fun stuff this way (like Overseer Campbell's secret room).

So yeah, it isn't a stealth game. It's a game with stealth. And rats. Lots of rats.

tanstaafl wrote:

After spending a ridiculous amount of time playing and replaying sections to get a clean stealth run only to have the game tell me I killed someone (I'm sure I didn't; rats must have gotten someone) I switched to trying to be sneaky but willing to kill any guard who did spot me and found the game much more satisfying. Oh, you saw me? That was your last mistake.

My other big realization was that I don't have to get rid of everyone in the level. Get up on a ledge, blink across to a pipe, break open a skylight, drop down then go out the back door. That's another half-dozen guards I can ignore instead of having to deal with.

I'm also finding much more fun stuff this way (like Overseer Campbell's secret room).

So yeah, it isn't a stealth game. It's a game with stealth. And rats. Lots of rats.

Yeah, this is how I'm playing. Although, sometimes through a tragi-comedy series of errors on my part I end up wiping an area of guards (like the Backyard). So yeah, this is *not* a stealth game but a game with stealth. All the stuff I read about it being a stealth game is bemusing.

Also, my Corvo is angry. Very very angry.

And can you blame him, really? He was imprisoned and tortured for six months. I imagine he's up for a bit of payback.

And the Backyard is where I had the epiphany about ledges and pipes. Beyond the three you encounter when you first enter the area I went through the rest of the area without ever engaging a guard; I grabbed the two bone charms and was out.

I restarted on Very Hard following my (embarrassing) realization that I could choke people into unconsciousness. Accordingly, I'm having a much easier time being non-lethal; I made it through the prison being spotted twice, but both times slipped away before I was found, doubled back on the overly-inquisitive guards who thought that they had seen me, and "encouraged" them to take a rest.

At the final door, I

Spoiler:

choked out both guards, having clambered into the room via the pipes that run above the door. I then planted the bomb and climbed into the dumpster, closing its lid behind me. The explosion brought in 5 or 6 guards, who ran around in a panic for a few minutes before concluding that, despite the smoldering wreckage, they "must have imagined it" and "were working too much". Until one of them magically saw me through the closed dumpster -- causing them to throw the lid open and yell angrily at me, unable to connect with their swords. Over their heads and into the water I went, bullets zinging past me.

So much for a stealthy escape!

tanstaafl wrote:

And can you blame him, really? He was imprisoned and tortured for six months. I imagine he's up for a bit of payback.

Exactly.

Spoiler:

Plus, the bad guys killed his lover the Empress and kidnapped what may be his kid. That's how I am reading it at least.

And took away his cushy job to boot!

tanstaafl wrote:

And the Backyard is where I had the epiphany about ledges and pipes. Beyond the three you encounter when you first enter the area I went through the rest of the area without ever engaging a guard; I grabbed the two bone charms and was out.

Well that is where the tragi-comedy comes in. I was scouting out the area when I missed a blink and landed right between two roving patrols with the dogs. And promptly got scrambled because I hadn't even considered that I might miss the blink. So, eventually most of the guards are on my tail, and I am running and trying to blink out and up but also trying to fight everyone off. And every time I try to blink away I seem to land into a worse fix. I finally get on a roof after what felt like five minutes off running around like a chicken with its head cut off (albeit one with a sword and crossbow that magically teleports) and most of the guards are dead. So I just decided to clean up the rest, then I could explore at my leisure. There's a lot of stuff lying around there it turns out.

tboon wrote:
tanstaafl wrote:

And can you blame him, really? He was imprisoned and tortured for six months. I imagine he's up for a bit of payback.

Exactly.

Spoiler:

Plus, the bad guys killed his lover the Empress and kidnapped what may be his kid. That's how I am reading it at least.

And took away his cushy job to boot!

I have the same read as you on your spoiler.

Spoiler:

The very first line in the game is the Empress saying "My dear Corvo...", which is a bit of an odd way for an Empress to address her bodyguard.

ebarstad wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:

I can't even get out of the prison, still trying to figure out the explosive swarm part.

...what?

I didn't do any explosive swarm myself. I was able to stealth past most of the guards after the initial two and then ran for the sewers. After that I'm pretty sure you can mostly get through the sewers without trouble (I had to kill one man and then, ALMOST at the end, was spotted and had to run to a man by a boat that took his time despite a bunch of guards yelling and shooting at me from behind).

Didn't you have to plant explosives on a door? I'll look around but I've not seen another way through. I've been stuck on the swarm of guards that come after the explosive goes off. I've tried hiding in the crate, hiding under the table, hiding in the shadows, closing the previous door and not, and trying to re-close the door. I've also tried killing them but last count was 12 before they overwhelmed me and I don't know how many there are. I like the challenge though, trial and error to find the way the devs intended this part to be completed, it's like a puzzle game.

As soon as the bomb goes off, run like hell through the opening and jump.

Ahah! Awesome, completely unexpected. Good job devs, teach us all the ways to be stealthy and throw a curve ball where stealth is impossible.

ibdoomed wrote:

Ahah! Awesome, completely unexpected. Good job devs, teach us all the ways to be stealthy and throw a curve ball where stealth is impossible.

What, you've never stealthily jumped through the burning wreck of a gate before?

Pfft. Amateur.

On a related note, I just completed my Low Chaos run. No kills, never detected. The different final mission is a nice touch.

Hyetal wrote:

Runes and bone charms are exclusive to the mission you are on. You'll get to revisit the distillery, but it will be slightly different. As for stealth, are you looking for more vertical paths to take? The distillery has almost an entire thoroughfare in its ceiling.

Yep. When I entered the distillery area there was a thug that warned he'd "slit my throat", and I immediately looked for ways above. The problem is I see all these wonderful things on the ground I want to get to.

The door inside the distillery itself is what I took to get in, and from there I'm having trouble getting up, so to speak. It could be I'm still thinking wrong, but I'm basically looking for ways to break line of sight since I have no idea where the cone of vision ends for all the guards.

By the way, wanted to gush a moment about the sewers. When you first enter and climb up, you see the two guards open the one door and then get devoured by rats. So the game teaches you 1) rats are lethal and 2) they spend a lot of time chewing on a corpse.

So later on you get to see bodies being dropped from above, and a horde of rats blocking me from using the gadget to open a door. Without even thinking I ran, leapt up to where the dead bodies were and started tossing them towards the rats. There was no thought, it wasn't bending my mind to solve some complex puzzle. The game just taught me about the world and I instantly knew to take advantage of it.

THAT is how you teach a player how to play your game.

ccesarano wrote:
Hyetal wrote:

Runes and bone charms are exclusive to the mission you are on. You'll get to revisit the distillery, but it will be slightly different. As for stealth, are you looking for more vertical paths to take? The distillery has almost an entire thoroughfare in its ceiling.

Yep. When I entered the distillery area there was a thug that warned he'd "slit my throat", and I immediately looked for ways above. The problem is I see all these wonderful things on the ground I want to get to.

The door inside the distillery itself is what I took to get in, and from there I'm having trouble getting up, so to speak. It could be I'm still thinking wrong, but I'm basically looking for ways to break line of sight since I have no idea where the cone of vision ends for all the guards.

Dark Vision? It'll show you exactly that. As for that particular conundrum, as long as you're swift, and you use Blink, you should be able to get to the chain hanging to the immediate right when you enter that big room, without alerting the thugs.

Edit: Note that their alarmed state has different levels. The first (1/3 lines above their heads) is nothing to worry about. They'll barely even think about it. The second is when they're really paying attention to whatever they just saw. Third is when you need to get out of dodge fast. When the 3 lines suddenly blink red, that means they've confirmed your presence and are moving to engage.

Great point about the rats. I loved that, too.

Yeah, I've basically learned that. I've also had to start learning how to do manual saves instead of just relying on checkpoints.

I think I bought Dark Vision. That was worth 1 heart rune, right? I bought that and vitality I think. I'll have to confirm tonight.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to sort of unlearn a bunch of what I've taken from Assassin's Creed, which I JUST played before this, in order to properly play Dishonored. I didn't even notice until recently that time is slowed slightly when you come out of blink, which means if I'm engaged I should be using that ability a lot more than I am in order to get the drop on my foes.

Dark Vision is 1 rune, correct. Both it and Blink effectively don't cost mana, which means you should feel free to use them with reckless abandon. The mana spent for either regenerates after a few seconds, though the initial cost will be spent if you cast another spell right after. The regeneration makes a sound to let you know it's happening.

You probably know that, but others might not.

I think that, even if you let it recharge, you'll lose a tiny bit of mana with each use of blink and dark vision.

1Dgaf wrote:

I think that, even if you let it recharge, you'll lose a tiny bit of mana with each use of blink and dark vision.

Only if you don't let it finish. It lasts a split second longer than the sound indicates.

From observation, I believe you have 100 mana. Spells cost multiples of 20 mana. After casting a spell, you will recover 20 points, and then stop.

This means that if you start with a full bar, and wait for a full recharge each time, you will never deplete your mana at all by casting 20-mana spells, like Blink and Dark Vision. However, it's easy to forget and recast before you should, so I found myself, typically, very slowly bleeding mana points as I moved around, because I would tend to cast again just a little too soon.

Spells that cost more than 20 mana will deplete your bar semi-permanently, until you drink a potion. I think Possession, for instance, is an 80-point spell, so after casting it, you will be at 20, and will recover to 40. This means only one Possession per mana potion.

Even if you completely run out of mana, all the way down to 0, you will always regenerate to 20. This means you're never locked out of Blink and Dark Vision.

You'll always have enough for blink and dark, yes. Those are the only two spells I can use, allowing for recharge, when I have no potions left. But as you say malor, it's quite easy to bleed mana.

Almost all dead on, except Possession and Bend Time (the Very High cost spells) are 60-20, not 80-20, which means you have 2 casts per potion.