NFL 2012 Week 6 Thread

fangblackbone wrote:

I think we all are biting our finger nails regarding some of the reckless yet exciting play calling and tuck-and-run decisions by the Redskins and RGIII. I don't think anyone believes he is immune to tragedy or injury. So can we give it a rest?

I don't recall this much parade raining when Michael Vick entered the league.

I know we are all more considerate than this but to me the requisite comments after each risky move are approaching the "Lemme go and get some popcorn in anticipation of this can't miss train wreck."

It is much harder to enjoy something exciting when you have people breathing "He's gonna get hurt. And I'm gonna say I told you so." down your neck. Maybe I am getting too sensitive, I don't know.

Using Vick as an example is probably not for the best, because Vick has been hurt an awful lot during his career.

jowner wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

I think we all are biting our finger nails regarding some of the reckless yet exciting play calling and tuck-and-run decisions by the Redskins and RGIII. I don't think anyone believes he is immune to tragedy or injury. So can we give it a rest?

I don't recall this much parade raining when Michael Vick entered the league.

I know we are all more considerate than this but to me the requisite comments after each risky move are approaching the "Lemme go and get some popcorn in anticipation of this can't miss train wreck."

It is much harder to enjoy something exciting when you have people breathing "He's gonna get hurt." down your neck. Maybe I am getting too sensitive, I don't know.

Well if hes running like Vick he will get hurt.

If hes running like Rodgers, probably the smartest running QB in the league then yea he will be fine.

Guess who has the highest complete percentage in the league right now? Griffin at 70% so he does have that advantage that he doesn't have to run. Not sure if that is accurate to his college %.

Vick? his best season was just under 63%.

Newton gets the same treatment but difference is being at 6'5 245 you expect him to take and deal more punishment.

We don't worry about Tebow cause hes actually a FB.

Vick wasn't and isn't a consistently good enough passer to be taken terribly seriously enough to try to beat with coverage. As a result, teams can close the running lanes and pound him with the rush. And when you look at the worst of his hits, they weren't necessarily on scrambles or designed runs. They were just straight up his being sacked because teams were willing to roll the dice because he couldn't beat you with his arm.

Griff has proven that he can and will beat you with his arm and his legs. And when you look at his big gainers in the air, they more often than not were the result of extended plays through scrambles and/or the linebackers having to respect the run and thus giving up either the underneath to his receivers or the safeties cheating up and thus giving the receivers one-on-one on the go routes.

I suspect he will get a lot smarter on the runs he takes and doesn't and we saw a lot of that in the Vikes game where he popped out of bounds a bit more than he did in the Atlanta game. But the 76 yarder he burned was clearly a home run opportunity he had to take. The safety was clearly out of position and the only person who could have caught him was the corner who was masterfully blocked by his wide receiver.

I read someplace that he ran the first 40 in 4.2 time .... in pads. If he wasn't already a fantastic quarterback, he could easily be one of the most dangerous receivers in the game today.

fangblackbone wrote:

I don't recall this much parade raining when Michael Vick entered the league.

Short memory.

Vick said when he was a rookie in 2001, the Falcons brought in somebody from the Braves – he couldn’t remember who, but it was long-time major-league third baseman Terry Pendleton, who was then the Braves’ hitting coach – to try to teach him to slide.

Vick Does it All... Except Slide (2002)

And the talk around RG3 protecting himself is informed by the career of Michael Vick. Vick has played all 16 games exactly once in his 10 year career. He is regularly in a flak jacket.

So, this all factors in to discussion of RG3 setting himself up for the same career path.

*Legion* wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

I don't recall this much parade raining when Michael Vick entered the league.

Short memory.

Vick said when he was a rookie in 2001, the Falcons brought in somebody from the Braves – he couldn’t remember who, but it was long-time major-league third baseman Terry Pendleton, who was then the Braves’ hitting coach – to try to teach him to slide.

Vick Does it All... Except Slide (2002)

And the talk around RG3 protecting himself is informed by the career of Michael Vick. Vick has played all 16 games exactly once in his 10 year career. He is regularly in a flak jacket.

So, this all factors in to discussion of RG3 setting himself up for the same career path.

Aside from gaining 40 pounds though, I am not sure what RGIII could do that would better ensure his safety. He is already getting a lot smarter about the running opportunities he takes and his uniform was remarkably clean after the Vikes game.

I would even posit that taking the run threat away from him actually makes him a much more vulnerable player as folks will simply bring the rush and cover over and under his receivers.

Paleocon wrote:

Aside from gaining 40 pounds though, I am not sure what RGIII could do that would better ensure his safety. He is already getting a lot smarter about the running opportunities he takes and his uniform was remarkably clean after the Vikes game.

We're 6 games into his career. Let's make him at least go through the whole rest of the season as this newer, smarter runner before we hoist the Mission Accomplished banner.

New thread?

*Legion* wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Aside from gaining 40 pounds though, I am not sure what RGIII could do that would better ensure his safety. He is already getting a lot smarter about the running opportunities he takes and his uniform was remarkably clean after the Vikes game.

We're 6 games into his career. Let's make him at least go through the whole rest of the season as this newer, smarter runner before we hoist the Mission Accomplished banner. :)

If he angles out of bounds before guys can touch him, slides before guys can line him up, peels out of the pocket when hes about to be sacked and throws it away/runs/throws a completion.

Mission Accomplished!

and going back to Vicks worst hits I agree its him just hanging onto the ball for way to long and getting popped in the pocket.

Part of what was frustrating with Rodgers earlier in the season. Hes normally super aware and will either get rid of the ball or use his feet to buy time so at the very least hes not getting smacked around.

Qb's sacked this year? Kolb 27. Hes injured. Rodgers 23. He will get lower on the list, the Seattle game was an outlier IMO. Vick at 5th with 17. Tied down at 17th is Griffin with 12 sacks.

Of guys that actually play week in week out Eli at 4 sacks makes me sad

Sack numbers don't account for hits, which Vick basically takes on every play.

And the talk around RG3 protecting himself is informed by the career of Michael Vick. Vick has played all 16 games exactly once in his 10 year career. He is regularly in a flak jacket.

So, this all factors in to discussion of RG3 setting himself up for the same career path.

Right but, the point is that this is known by everyone. Restating it over and over doesn't make it any smarter or have more foresight. Instead it makes it trend towards wanting him to have that career ending injury because it will be epic to watch it unfold.

I guess we could expand the discussion a bit towards the offensive line and referencing Steve Young's early career. I remember talk of how not knowing whether Young was going to take off or stay in the pocket made his line's job much more difficulty and injury prone.

I don't get to see a lot of Redskins play footage but what triggered this is that last highlight reel TD run. The pocket breaks down and gets split. One of the rushers pulls off his blocker and falls toward RGIII in a desperate arm grab tackle. But once RGIII passes the line of scrimmage it seems the rushers and linemen are half standing around and half pushing and shoving. This seems like it is a prime situation for injury to occur. I don't follow the injury reports but I wonder if the Redskins are going to lose in the long term with the dynamic offense.

fangblackbone wrote:

Right but, the point is that this is known by everyone. Restating it over and over doesn't make it any smarter or have more foresight. Instead it makes it trend towards wanting him to have that career ending injury because it will be epic to watch it unfold.

I don't see how A implies B.

It's a point of discussion because we're a week removed from him getting knocked right out of a ballgame.

I'm not sure I get your objection, because what you write seems to imply people are only talking about RG3 potentially getting injured, and failing to talk about how awesome and productive he is. That seems to me like that "our team gets no respect" fan lack of perspective. The football world is sufficiently dazzled by what RG3 is doing.

Paleocon wrote:

Aside from gaining 40 pounds though, I am not sure what RGIII could do that would better ensure his safety. He is already getting a lot smarter about the running opportunities he takes and his uniform was remarkably clean after the Vikes game.

I would even posit that taking the run threat away from him actually makes him a much more vulnerable player as folks will simply bring the rush and cover over and under his receivers.

I have to agree with this completely. First with McNabb, and now with Vick, you can see the entire offense suffer when the QB is not threatening to run a couple times each series. Between coaching the QB's not to run and the refusal to commit to the running game, the Eagles have really hurt the receivers ability to get open and the QB's are left with much smaller passing windows.

The thing is, I've been dazzled by what RGIII is doing, but I've been dazzled by what lots of people have done for one season. Cam Newton was dazzling last year. Josh Freeman was dazzling in 2010 (and yes, I am weeping a little bit right now). We can jump back to Scott Mitchell being an absolute stud back in 1995 (I think). There are loads of examples; the issue is there are loads of "RGIII is TEH FUTUUURE" stories, and he's played a few games, in one of which he got knocked out of the game.

So, yes, he's been awesome and productive, but this is a hype train headed for derail at some point.

That seems to me like that "our team gets no respect" fan lack of perspective. The football world is sufficiently dazzled by what RG3 is doing.

I guess my perspective is skewed because I only pay attention to these forums. So I don't see any of the over zealous praise/hype/godhood from the press. I know it is there but I choose to ignore it because I would rather just enjoy it than get out of control.

edit: oh and don't think that Skins fans don't know about the one great seasons... does Mark Rypien ring a bell?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

The thing is, I've been dazzled by what RGIII is doing, but I've been dazzled by what lots of people have done for one season. Cam Newton was dazzling last year. Josh Freeman was dazzling in 2010 (and yes, I am weeping a little bit right now). We can jump back to Scott Mitchell being an absolute stud back in 1995 (I think). There are loads of examples; the issue is there are loads of "RGIII is TEH FUTUUURE" stories, and he's played a few games, in one of which he got knocked out of the game.

So, yes, he's been awesome and productive, but this is a hype train headed for derail at some point.

Sad at the lack of the Majik Man, Don Majkowski.

Yep, it was 1995 for Scott Mitchell. I miss the run-and-shoot.

Fun fact: Majkowski was Scott Mitchell's backup on that 1995 Lions team.

Fun fact 2: The offensive coordinator for that Lions offense was Tom Moore - better known for being the architect of Peyton Manning's Colts offenses.

I think more than his physical gifts, what impresses me most about RGIII is his reputed work ethic and his ability to learn and adapt. There was some concern about his transitioning into an NFL offense because of the limited playbook he had at Baylor. Folks were concerned that he was an option qb who could throw, but not a field general with the ability to quickly analyze the situation.

If anything, the latter is really turning out to be his strong suit. The Shannys expressed amazement at how quickly he picked up the entirety of the playbook and even more impressed at how he has internalized new changes to it tailored to his abilities. He reads a defense as good as any and better than most.

The big criticism folks have seems to be that he takes unnecessary risks with his body. I can see that, but also see consistent progress toward trusting the system.

All of this isn't to say that defenses won't be able to adjust to him (as they do to all breakout rookies). But I really think that his ability to adapt will make him a lot harder to adjust for than the others on that list.

fangblackbone wrote:
That seems to me like that "our team gets no respect" fan lack of perspective. The football world is sufficiently dazzled by what RG3 is doing.

I guess my perspective is skewed because I only pay attention to these forums. So I don't see any of the over zealous praise/hype/godhood from the press. I know it is there but I choose to ignore it because I would rather just enjoy it than get out of control.

edit: oh and don't think that Skins fans don't know about the one great seasons... does Mark Rypien ring a bell?

Listen to some of the hometown radio, if you can (I take it you are a 'skins fan ). RG3 walks on water, cures cancer with a wink and a smile, and has the economic crisis wrapped up around here.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

The thing is, I've been dazzled by what RGIII is doing, but I've been dazzled by what lots of people have done for one season. Cam Newton was dazzling last year. Josh Freeman was dazzling in 2010 (and yes, I am weeping a little bit right now). We can jump back to Scott Mitchell being an absolute stud back in 1995 (I think). There are loads of examples; the issue is there are loads of "RGIII is TEH FUTUUURE" stories, and he's played a few games, in one of which he got knocked out of the game.

So, yes, he's been awesome and productive, but this is a hype train headed for derail at some point.

Sad at the lack of the Majik Man, Don Majkowski.

Yep, it was 1995 for Scott Mitchell. I miss the run-and-shoot.

Fun fact: Majkowski was Scott Mitchell's backup on that 1995 Lions team.

Fun fact 2: The offensive coordinator for that Lions offense was Tom Moore - better known for being the architect of Peyton Manning's Colts offenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_H...

Granted it was for only half the year.. but on talk radio you would have thought we had the next Joe Montana. Fans were THAT sure.