Doctor Who *Spoilers Abound! We've lost Containment*

Keldar wrote:
Ranger Rick wrote:

(Edit: I don't know why quoting isn't working here, it looks right no me...)

You ended the spoiler with /quote instead of /spoiler, and it's not happy about it because the number of open and closes for either don't match. Incidentally that's why your sig is shoved off to the right, too.

Hah, wow, I was looking for what's wrong in what I quoted, and it was in my comments instead. Thanks!

I believe there was a throw away line about the Angels infecting all the statues.

Ranger Rick wrote:

(Edit: I don't know why quoting isn't working here, it looks right no me...)

KidDork wrote:

Overall, I liked it....but (puts on nerd glasses)

Spoiler:

the Statue of Liberty was a bit much. To expect that no one would have noticed it was gone, or that it was strolling around Manhattan, was a bit much. And it was unnecessary, since the story would have been fine without it.

Spoiler:

The other thing that I didn't get about the Statue of Liberty....

They established previously that they're another alien race. But, we have photographic evidence that the Statue of Liberty was a metal structure built by humans. I guess they can make up whatever new rules about how the weeping angels exist if they want (weeping angels "posses" existing statues instead?), but it seemed pretty silly to me.

I now know how Clocky feels being the only one disliking something in other threads, because this episode seemed so contrived that I had a hard time even being emotional about it at the end, despite liking Rory and Amy. I think I've passed my limit on Moffat loving to play with paradoxes. He spends so much time being clever that he forgets to write an interesting story that stands up if you stop focusing on the twist.

Spoiler:

"The statue (of Liberty) was closed for renovation for much of 1938." It fits historically. Maybe the weeping angels did something with the original during renovations which was undone by the paradox. New York was their foothold on earth. Given that there were 'babies', I think there were probably bigger plans.

Still, it was pretty silly.

Except for that one aspect, I loved the whole episode. Possibly one of my all-time favorite Doctor Who episodes; I'll have to rewatch it and see.

But seriously: nothing more until Christmas? You've got to be kidding me.

Amazing image that's kinda spoiler-y for "Angels Take Manhattan"

http://bit.ly/SuOkOJ

sometimesdee wrote:

Amazing image that's kinda spoiler-y for "Angels Take Manhattan"

http://bit.ly/SuOkOJ

Too cool! Where was that taken from?

Note the byline on it

Radical Ans wrote:
sometimesdee wrote:

Amazing image that's kinda spoiler-y for "Angels Take Manhattan"

http://bit.ly/SuOkOJ

Too cool! Where was that taken from?

It's bouncing around on FB.

Tanglebones wrote:

Note the byline on it

Yes. Awesome, isn't it?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Except for that one aspect, I loved the whole episode. Possibly one of my all-time favorite Doctor Who episodes; I'll have to rewatch it and see.

That's really something coming from you. I think I feel similarly, though. Very clever, very suspenseful, and even though we pretty much knew the ultimate outcome goi in, there was still a nice shock for us...and then that was turned around into something really sweet yet still crushing.

But seriously: nothing more until Christmas? You've got to be kidding me. :P

I know, I know. Just wait until we get our Christmas episode and we Female Doggo about the next gap!

Clearly you guys are all on about something I can't possibly read. Good job on the white space!

Started s5 this weekend with the wife. I feel like both Matt Smith and Karen Gillam talk way too fast. Seriously there's been multiple times where my wife and I had to translate for each other because one of us missed what was said. And a couple times we had to rewind and watch a scene again cause neither of us got it. Or because while answering the previous line we missed the next one.

Anyway, other than that we're quite enjoying things. Up through "Hungry Earth" last night, and have to finish off the 2nd part tonight.

General stuff from the first 6 episodes:

Nice to see River again.
Creepy to see the Angels again.
Amy is hot.
Winston Churchill!
Aww Amy really loves Rory.
And did I mention Amy is hot, and those skirts she wears?
Oh... and there's cracks... in time...

The Beast Below spoilers:

Spoiler:

Wow. Amy took it upon herself to solve the problem. Good for her. And nice touch with the "last of a species" connection.

Victory of the Dalek spoilers:

Spoiler:

For a second I almost believed the scientist had created the Daleks and that the Doctor was about to make them his enemies with his crazy antics. Then I remembered it being mentioned before that a Time Lord made the Daleks, so I let that idea go. Would have been cool though. Anyway, they get away, again, as usual. For a long-dead race the Daleks sure do pop up a lot.

Vampires of Venice spoilers:

Spoiler:

Oooh vampires... doh, fish aliens. It's always aliens. Werewolves are never werewolves, and so on...

Good analysis by Rory. Doctor makes people want to be better, and yes that's usually dangerous. Bold move by the father taking out all of those fish.

Hm that's enough for now I guess. Gosh I want to catch up soon. Whatever you guys are talking about must be cool.

Stele, this for one of your comments on season 5:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure where the bit about a Time Lord creating the Daleks came from. The canon has it that they were originally a race of humanoids called the Kaleds who were involved in an endless war with another indigenous race, the Thals, on the planet Skaro. A weapons scientist named Davros, who was crippled in the war, created Daleks from living, but mutated, Kaleds, bonding the organic creature with a shell and weapons platform based on his own life support gear.

Didn't you see the two parter with Davros at the end of season 4?

farley3k wrote:

awesome pic

psst... spoiler tags don't work on pictures.

Stele wrote:

Clearly you guys are all on about something I can't possibly read. Good job on the white space!

Hm that's enough for now I guess. Gosh I want to catch up soon. Whatever you guys are talking about must be cool.

Yah, we're in the middle of Series 7. Hurry up and join us!

Spoiler:

I don't buy this can't change the time continuum excuse. The only fixed point is that the Ponds die in the past. That doesn't mean the doctor can't pick them up in the past and have more adventures with them, as long as they die in the past. It also just means that when they die, they need to die in the past. They can live in the present until their final years. And the Doctor can bring the father into the past to live the rest of his life with them.

You know they're going to play around with that sooner or later, Kazar. Just like they did with Rose.

Rahmen wrote:

Having just watched the last episode:

Spoiler:

Crap. Despite knowing it would happen, what a punch in the gut to lose Amy and Rory. And if it weren't enough on its own, my son asked - "So what's the Doctor supposed to say to Rory's dad?"

And I started asking myself, why did they bring Rory's dad only to have us now know they'd never see each other again?

apparently spoiler tags don't work on images! So follow the link.

spider_j wrote:

Stele, this for one of your comments on season 5:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure where the bit about a Time Lord creating the Daleks came from. The canon has it that they were originally a race of humanoids called the Kaleds who were involved in an endless war with another indigenous race, the Thals, on the planet Skaro. A weapons scientist named Davros, who was crippled in the war, created Daleks from living, but mutated, Kaleds, bonding the organic creature with a shell and weapons platform based on his own life support gear.

Didn't you see the two parter with Davros at the end of season 4?

Yes I remember now. Sorry, I just knew that I had seen who created the Daleks in a previous episode, but forgot exactly the details.

It's hard to remember everything when I've watched 60ish episodes in the last 5-6 weeks.

kazar wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't buy this can't change the time continuum excuse. The only fixed point is that the Ponds die in the past. That doesn't mean the doctor can't pick them up in the past and have more adventures with them, as long as they die in the past. It also just means that when they die, they need to die in the past. They can live in the present until their final years. And the Doctor can bring the father into the past to live the rest of his life with them.

Spoiler:

...except that the Doctor saw the book's final chapter, "Amelia's Last Farewell," so regardless of whether or not the event can be be changed, he's convinced it can't be and isn't willing to risk destroying the city or the Pond's lives trying to see them again. While still heartbroken, he's content knowing they lived a full life after him.

ruhk wrote:
kazar wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't buy this can't change the time continuum excuse. The only fixed point is that the Ponds die in the past. That doesn't mean the doctor can't pick them up in the past and have more adventures with them, as long as they die in the past. It also just means that when they die, they need to die in the past. They can live in the present until their final years. And the Doctor can bring the father into the past to live the rest of his life with them.

Spoiler:

...except that the Doctor saw the book's final chapter, "Amelia's Last Farewell," so regardless of whether or not the event can be be changed, he's convinced it can't be and isn't willing to risk destroying the city or the Pond's lives trying to see them again. While still heartbroken, he's content knowing they lived a full life after him.

Spoiler:

Except it is a book. There is no evidence that beyond the book there isn't more adventures. I don't think speculation counts as a fixed point in time.

kazar wrote:
Spoiler:

Except it is a book. There is no evidence that beyond the book there isn't more adventures. I don't think speculation counts as a fixed point in time.

Sooo... I take it you missed the epilogue, then?

Stele, I can't believe how fast you're plowing through all these episodes. But I'm thrilled you're enjoying it enough to keep at it. I'm eager to hear your thoughts after watching series six. I think a lot of folks consider it a mixed bag, but I think there's some wonderfully dark and spooky moments along the way, and those are my favorite sort of experiences from Moffat's run so far.

Also, once you're caught up all the way, there's that whole "who's your favorite Doctor" business.

IMAGE(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/314176_208189542645820_1168130338_n.jpg)

S5, "Cold Blood"

Spoiler:

RORY!

He can't be gone. Amy just decided she loved him two episodes back.

And WTF, piece of the Tardis. I suppose that going boom could cause a crack in time. Eek.

Looking forward to see how we get out of this one.

EDIT: Also forgot the most hilarious quote:

Spoiler:

Doctor, shedload of those creatures coming our way!

Does anybody else find it odd that Stele is spoiler tagging stuff from two years ago in a thread that has a spoiler warning in the title?

iaintgotnopants wrote:

Does anybody else find it odd that Stele is spoiler tagging stuff from two years ago in a thread that has a spoiler warning in the title?

Spoiler:

Nope, but I'm not a spoiler criticism expert.

I find it weird that we're using spoiler tags at all, with the warning in the title!

Spoiler tags are polite.

The way it's being done now is probably the best compromise. If there were more traffic, I'd suggest one thread for current discussions and another for older episodes and general Whovian discourse. But there's not enough conversation to support that.

I don't really have a good, coherent opinion of this episode. Some scattered thoughts:

Spoiler:

The overall mood of the episode was very well done, but almost excessively dark. I keep thinking of that poor 4-year-old kid doing the recaps....

It's kind of ridiculous that people would just walk into Winter Quay like they did several times. But between the setting in 30's New York and the general horror mood, I got a strong Lovecraft vibe off the show, so it doesn't bother me to assume that some irresistible supernatural force is compelling them.

That said, I agree that using the Statue of Liberty was over the top and unnecessary to the plot. If they wanted to acknowledge that, yes, they're doing an Angels episode in a city with a famous statue, they could have done a shot with an Angel on her head or something. That's a quibble, though.

Another quibble: I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to name a hotel anywhere in America Winter Quay, even in 1938. That stuck out to my American eyes/ears. On the bright side, the accents were good; if there were any non-Americans doing Americans, I missed them.

The double-suicide scene was powerful, despite the Green King Kong in the background. Again, it started to cross the line for me when I thought about kids watching. I know it would give my 7-year-old nightmares to watch. I realize that other episodes have been scary and given the characters lots of peril, but there's something very different about suicide. It's darker, more inevitable and bleak. To have them pop back up, then pull the rug out again was extra manipulative. Again, very well done, but still. This is the part I'm still processing the most, unsurprisingly.

I found Grayle interesting. (I liked the trader guy in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship in the same way.) His subplot existed only to develop the conflict with the Angels, so it risked feeling superfluous, but I thought they did a good job transitioning away from him. It does, however, make me think this story would have worked better in the old-series 4-part format, with more time and 4 acts. That would let them both flesh out Grayle as more than a device, and still move him out of the way for the main event. (It might not work strung out across 4 weeks, though.)

If they don't visit Bryan during the Christmas episode and own that promise the Doctor broke, they're totally chickening out.

Stayed up late finishing S5 last night.

Spoiler:

Aww Rory waited for 2k years. Good man.

I think both my and my wife's favorite part was the flashback to "Flesh and Stone." We had both said that was weird of the Doctor to come back and hold her hands and give that long speech when it happened, and wondered how he caught up with the others in the control room so quickly. Such a cool moment.

The Doctor really does suck at dancing.

The TARDIS is the perfect wedding present. It is all 4 things: new, old, borrowed, blue! :cool:

Looks like it will be a couple weeks before we catch up still. In-laws coming Fri and staying for a week so unlikely we will watch any episodes in that time. We might be able to crush s6 the next 3 evenings, but I don't think we can do that plus 4 or 5 episodes of 7, whatever it's on now. Ah well.

Doctor Who: High on emotion, Low on sense. I've given up on it being logically consistent. Shame really. I guess it's all frosting now, no more cake.

Atomicvideohead wrote:

Doctor Who: High on emotion, Low on sense. I've given up on it being logically consistent. Shame really. I guess it's all frosting now, no more cake.

It's a fantasy show, of course it's low on sense or logic.