XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Strategy Game - Developed by Firaxis

Tamren wrote:

Do the math. XCOM has been the 1-5th top selling game since pre-orders went up, and I found out almost by accident that I would have trouble running the game. I foresee a lot of cancelled pre-orders and demands for post release refunds in the next 10 days. And that's just for Steam! What about the people buying boxed copies? They all need Steam to run, and I bet most moms and dads don't read the requirements on the box or would recognize the problem even if they do. This could have been avoided.

They can demand a refund all they want but it won't happen. Do you know any retailers that accept opened software returns? Because they didn't do that when I worked retail even back in 2004.

No, what is going to happen, and it's the same thing that has always been happening, is that someone will buy the game, it won't work and then they come in looking to return or exchange it. Then someone will point out they are trying to run this on an OS that was release ten years ago, that was stop being sold on June 30, 2008 (4 years ago) and that they should either upgrade or get the console version.

Don't forget that the game doesn't give any indication that XP is the problem. It just doesn't work, blackscreens or crashes with an error message. It would take people a while to make the connection, and most people probably won't. Why would they? They probably bought the game without a second though to the requirements like I did. Cue dozens of people complaining about the "buggy" piece of software that won't run.

Anyhow Tkyl I hope you read this soon. Put out the word, get a disclaimer onto the Steam store page and maybe a news bulletin. This is a jenga tower of bad press and the longer you leave it alone the shakier it's going to get.

Generally, when something doesn't run, I look at the requirements page or the manual. I do that whether it's software or hardware. Some hardware, for instance, only works with 220 volts. Manufacturers generally don't advertise this. It's assumed that you're going to look at the specs.

Usually the installer doesn't even allow it to start the installation saying the OS doesn't meet the minimum requirements.

Either way this really won't be that big of a deal. It's not the first big game to drop XP support and most people who play games have a PC that runs Win 7 now.

Not the first game no, maybe the most anticipated? I mean off the top of my head there is Just Cause 2, Shattered Horizon and Sniper Elite 2. Not exactly blockbusters.

You can probably get a refund from Valve if you bring the XP issue to their attention right away. They'll likely realize they blew it, and give you your money back. Heck, they might even be be able to tell you're on XP, from your profile stats.

That said:

I was hoping to avoid updating to 7 until I could build a whole new computer because upgrading straight would result in issues. 64-bit 7 is a ram hog. OEM installations are locked to your motherboard and can't be transferred. All drivers need to be updated to 64 bit spec...

Upgrading is not a very good idea. You really want to do a clean install, ideally of the 64-bit flavor of 7. The easiest way to do that is typically with a new drive, although drives are still fairly expensive compared to where they were a year ago.... $85 for a good 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3, as opposed to $50 last year.

On the Intel architecture, 64-bit programs, on average, use about 30% more space for code than 32-bit ones, but run faster. Typically, however, code space is very small compared to data space, so the actual additional memory load can be surprisingly small, frequently under 10%.

But there aren't many 64-bit programs. The great majority are 32-bit, and take the same amount of space they ever did. Win7 isn't that much bigger than XP, and if you have 4 gigs of RAM, and a PCIe video card, it should be able to move that video RAM out of the 4 gig address space, recovering a bunch of RAM that's been hidden 'underneath' the video card. The net effect should be more RAM, not less. Only if you're at 3 gigs or less would you lose space; I'm not sure precisely how much, as I haven't tried running Win7 on a really skinny machine.

The thing with OEM and retail licenses has been true for a long, long time. OEM Home Premium is $99, but it's locked to one motherboard, unless it breaks and you have to replace it. Microsoft will apparently take your word for it that the old motherboard broke, at least at the moment; that could someday change. A retail license can be transferred as many times as you want, and with the direction Microsoft is going with Win8, that's starting to look like a pretty smart investment.

Drivers haven't been much of an issue that I've seen -- Win7 comes with built-in drivers for most hardware that existed before it did, and manufacturers have written drivers for most things that were out at the same time, or came out afterward. There are some old printers and scanners that never got Win7 updates, but I think the actual PC is likely to work just fine.

Yes, it will be frustrating to update it, likely taking a couple of hours, and then a couple of weeks of steady tinkering. Yes, it'll cost you at least $100. But it should work pretty well once you're done.

Man, Tamren, you seem to be dead set on hating this game. Have you at least tried the demo? It might work.

Tamren wrote:

Before you say "this is your own fault", yeah I admit it is.

I'm hoping my highlighting this will save a lot of conversation. If you guys want to talk about Windows XP support further, start a new thread. Veering off topic.

Pardon the skimming, but is there any word on a possible console demo?

Aaron D. wrote:

Pardon the skimming, but is there any word on a possible console demo?

Haven't heard anything yet. There's enough gameplay footage out that I'm not sure I want or need a demo.

So is Green Man Gaming pretty much the cheapest place to pick this one up now with their 10% discount? I unfortunately missed the one-day trade in thing they did recently. Already have Civ5, so that isn't much of an incentive on Steam.

Aaron D. wrote:

Pardon the skimming, but is there any word on a possible console demo?

In one of the interviews with Solomon I watched, he said there would be one. But no timeframe was given.

Cool, thanks guys. I guess I'll continue to keep my eye out for a demo.

I'm 99% sold on the game but only have apprehensions over the level unit creation in the game. I'm a big fan of TBS titles but my skill set tends to fall apart when I'm given the responsibility of choosing class load-out pre-mission.

It's like playing chess. There is always a pre-defined number of units on the board so i only need to focus on utilizing what i have successfully. My brain isn't burdened with the anxiety of wondering if I picked the right units before a skirmish, effectively killing any chance of winning a round before the fist move is played.

Can anyone comment on X-COM's gameplay mechanics in this regard? I have no problem with upgrade paths for units or even dynamic win conditions in the field. I'm more worried that I'll have to pick 4 or 5 out of 15 unit types pre-mission, and always wonder if I chose the right ones if I start running into a wall with the difficulty curve.

Aaron D. wrote:

Cool, thanks guys. I guess I'll continue to keep my eye out for a demo.

I'm 99% sold on the game but only have apprehensions over the level unit creation in the game. I'm a big fan of TBS titles but my skill set tends to fall apart when I'm given the responsibility of choosing class load-out pre-mission.

It's like playing chess. There is always a pre-defined number of units on the board so i only need to focus on utilizing what i have successfully. My brain isn't burdened with the anxiety of wondering if I picked the right units before a skirmish, effectively killing any chance of winning a round before the fist move is played.

Can anyone comment on X-COM's gameplay mechanics in this regard? I have no problem with upgrade paths for units or even dynamic win conditions in the field. I'm more worried that I'll have to pick 4 or 5 out of 15 unit types pre-mission, and always wonder if I chose the right ones if I start running into a wall with the difficulty curve.

From what I know there are initially 4 base unit types. Support, Assault, Heavy, and Sniper. There is also a mini-tank option and psychic trooper. You have 4 slots to fill and can upgrade that up to 6 total. Units can be varied with what they have equiped. Essentially, it seems you'll want 1 of each and after the upgrades bring another two of your choosing. You can also adjust the difficulty setting at any time.

Vector wrote:
Aaron D. wrote:

Can anyone comment on X-COM's gameplay mechanics in this regard? I have no problem with upgrade paths for units or even dynamic win conditions in the field. I'm more worried that I'll have to pick 4 or 5 out of 15 unit types pre-mission, and always wonder if I chose the right ones if I start running into a wall with the difficulty curve.

From what I know there are initially 4 base unit types. Support, Assault, Heavy, and Sniper. There is also a mini-tank option and psychic trooper. You have 4 slots to fill and can upgrade that up to 6 total. Units can be varied with what they have equiped. Essentially, it seems you'll want 1 of each and after the upgrades bring another two of your choosing. You can also adjust the difficulty setting at any time.

It looks like the loadouts are fairly simple, too. Each soldier seems to get an armour slot, a main weapon, a sidearm, and a special item (grenades, medkits, and scopes all were in this slot). This might get more complicated later on, of course.

Awesome. That makes me feel a lot better.

I was worried that I'd be given a blank slate at the start of each mission to fill a roster with. Should I deploy 2 tanks, a soldier, and a sniper? Maybe it needs to be 3 soldiers and a sniper? This is all going in cold of course with no idea of what's in store.

Those kind of descisions paralyze me and make TBS way less fun. I guess the counter argument is that you need to play through a skirmish at least once as a test run to learn the correct recipe of unit types for that scenario, but I'm just no into double-playing each mission.

Well, X-Com missions are supposedly dynamic, so you might never get the same thing twice, anyway.

And it does look like the design goal is for you to take one of each type. In the 'choose your own adventure' type video that was linked upthread, if you don't take a balanced squad into that mission, you're gonna get chewed up and spit out.

Malor wrote:

Well, X-Com missions are supposedly dynamic, so you might never get the same thing twice, anyway.

And it does look like the design goal is for you to take one of each type. In the 'choose your own adventure' type video that was linked upthread, if you don't take a balanced squad into that mission, you're gonna get chewed up and spit out.

While a balanced squad is definitely good, that's not always true. I definitely tend to bring different types of soldiers depending upon what I'm expecting in the mission.

Confirmed that the game doesn't run on XP. It uses Win32 API calls that don't exist in the XP kernel. Guess that means I'll be upgrading sooner than I planned.

Complexmath, Tamren started a thread in Tech and Help -- post a hardware list over there, and we'll try to help you figure it out.

I played the demo today. Wow. Very nice job by the developers.

I will miss loading up a bunch of guys with grenades and making them suicide bombers in the beginning of the game. Can't wait to play the full game.

Malor, I have a work copy of Win7 I'm going to drop on my PC for now. Wife said I can upgrade hardware in about 6 weeks, so I'll hit T&H before long. My current PC is pretty ancient. I'm glad this came up now. I'd preordered X-COM but was in semi-blackout mode. It would have stunk if the first I found out about this was on launch day when the game didn't run.

If you're going to be upgrading the PC anyway, I'd suggest buying a drive now, and doing a clean install, leaving your existing drives alone. Don't activate Windows yet. Then, once you get your new hardware (assuming you can do it within thirty days, anyway), move the drive over to the new hardware, and activate it there.

There's also a way, I think, to extend the trial period to 60 days. I'd have to look it up, though.

I may do that. We can pick this up in the T&H thread.

Since I can't afford X-Com, if anyone has a copy of Civ 5 from xcom preorder they don't want, I'll take it off your hands as I haven't touched a Civ game since 2. I honestly didn't really like Civ 2, but figure it's worth another (free) shot.

/begger

Oh, and I finally got around to the demo. I can tell I'm gonna love X-Com when I finally get to play the full version!

Oh man. Just played the demo; this went from want to need, quite rapidly. Great work, Tkyl & Firaxis!

I'm going to hold off on the preorder because I've got too many other financial commitments for the next couple of months, but it will be me.. oh yes, it will be mine..

Nevin73 wrote:

Man, Tamren, you seem to be dead set on hating this game. Have you at least tried the demo? It might work.

The game design is a separate issue. I'm allergic to peanuts. My patience has zero tolerance for poorly labelled products. Leave it at that.

Vector wrote:

From what I know there are initially 4 base unit types. Support, Assault, Heavy, and Sniper. There is also a mini-tank option and psychic trooper. You have 4 slots to fill and can upgrade that up to 6 total. Units can be varied with what they have equiped. Essentially, it seems you'll want 1 of each and after the upgrades bring another two of your choosing.

Party balance is going to be interesting. One thing that irks me is that you as a commander can be locked out of certain abilities if you lack a soldier of a specific class. If your only sniper dies, any other recruits you elevate only have a 1/4 chance of being a sniper. So you could be stuck without one for a good long time. Thought I believe I saw an upgrade somewhere that allows soldiers to skip the rookie stage.

Finding ways to deal with it should be fun, perhaps in the Dwarf Fortress sense

The Officer Training School that you can build in your base will give you the ability to pass the New Recruit stage and assign them a class.

Just getting your rookies to survive long enough to be assigned a specialty will be a challenge.

Tanglebones wrote:

Oh man. Just played the demo; this went from want to need, quite rapidly. Great work, Tkyl & Firaxis!

+1

I wish the Civ 5 preorder bonus would default to G&K if you already have vanilla. #firstworldproblems