A personal announcement, emphatic thank-you, and cheers to Fedora.

Ah, that was a slip and I apologise for it. I'm perfect, but my typing it isn't.

Also, Clock, I'm glad to see you were smiling in your self portrait. Most people don't and it makes a big difference to how pleasant and approachable they look.

The terminology used with trans stuff is always a bit in flux, and a bit confusing. Transgender pretty much covers the whole gamut of gender variance, from presentation to identity. So someone who identifies as male but expresses as female could be considered transgender. At the same time, I'm sure there are drag queens who wouldn't label themselves that way. On the other side, transsexual is sometimes reserved for people who have been through transition, rather than people like Clock and myself who are just starting to stare at the headlights.

And you also have categories like genderfluid (sometimes identifies as male, sometimes as female, sometimes in between) or genderqueer (not necessarily any of the above.)

I think the real key things are simply to ask people how they identify themselves, and do it respectfully. It's easy to accidentally imply value judgements by saying the wrong things, but as long as we're all willing to talk, that's no big deal. We've got a good community. The person who might feel judged can generally assume it's all a misunderstanding and explain what freaked them out and feel sure that nobody's going to keep doing it intentionally. And the person who might have offended can generally know that people will explain what went wrong and that there'll be no hard feelings as long as they try to avoid that pitfall in the future.

And this is why I avoid personal pronouns like the Plague!

This thread has shown me why masculine/feminine romance language object pronouns don't ever make any sense.

That's why the smart linguist uses the term "noun class" instead of "gender".

momgamer wrote:

And this is why I avoid personal pronouns like the Plague! ;)

And cliches!

Gravey wrote:

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why men's fashion is basically so conservative, limited, and prescribed, whereas for women the world is their oyster. Take formal wear (please!): men get suits, and... suits. And let's face facts, they're all basically identical.

If you honestly believe that all suits are basically identical, you are incredibly mis-informed about men's fashion.
(Strolls away gallantly in seer-sucker shorts, moccasins and a blue oxford cloth).

boogle wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why men's fashion is basically so conservative, limited, and prescribed, whereas for women the world is their oyster. Take formal wear (please!): men get suits, and... suits. And let's face facts, they're all basically identical.

If you honestly believe that all suits are basically identical, you are incredibly mis-informed about men's fashion.
(Strolls away gallantly in seer-sucker shorts, moccasins and a blue oxford cloth).

A wild Minarchist appears. You use Italian tailoring. It's super-effective!

boogle wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why men's fashion is basically so conservative, limited, and prescribed, whereas for women the world is their oyster. Take formal wear (please!): men get suits, and... suits. And let's face facts, they're all basically identical.

If you honestly believe that all suits are basically identical, you are incredibly mis-informed about men's fashion.
(Strolls away gallantly in seer-sucker shorts, moccasins and a blue oxford cloth).

The travails of the "Boogle Dating Thread" have never made more sense before now.

boogle wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Yeah, I sometimes wonder why men's fashion is basically so conservative, limited, and prescribed, whereas for women the world is their oyster. Take formal wear (please!): men get suits, and... suits. And let's face facts, they're all basically identical.

If you honestly believe that all suits are basically identical, you are incredibly mis-informed about men's fashion.
(Strolls away gallantly in seer-sucker shorts, moccasins and a blue oxford cloth).

Not just incredibly mis-informed, but deliberately uninformed too.

boogle wrote:

www.putthison.com

At 32, I get to decide what this grown-up wears.

IMAGE(http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/00000001/wn-wizardpunch.gif)

I was about to post this—

So here's a stupid but totally honest question for you, Clock. I still spend a couple bucks on my Xbox avatar from time to time, make sure he's dressed appropriate for the season, and so forth. It's dumb, but I feel a little responsible to the little guy. I know you're not on Xbox anymore, but you play WP games so you're still connected to your Live profile and avatar. Would updating your avatar have any degree of importance, like for (re-)establishing who you are or want to be or anything, or am I too dumb for words for thinking about Xbox avatars in this context?

—But then I though I'd do my due diligence first, and quickly checked the Xbox iPhone app.

momgamer wrote:

I could use it. And I have 3 feet of hair here I need to think of something to do with besides a long braid down my back.

mine is nearly as long. I'd beg for all of you to let me join in.

Also:

Thank you.

I have something that needed to be said to the people around me. I was terrified to tell them but finally did last night. And all of your bravery came to mind when I did.

You really do inspire me.

MrAndrewJ wrote:

I have something that needed to be said to the people around me. I was terrified to tell them but finally did last night.

Congrats! Hope it went better than you expected!

Yay! More awesomeness!

MrAndrewJ wrote:

I have something that needed to be said to the people around me. I was terrified to tell them but finally did last night. And all of your bravery came to mind when I did.

You really do inspire me.

Congrats! As has already been said, I do hope it went well!

Rubb Ed wrote:
MrAndrewJ wrote:

I have something that needed to be said to the people around me. I was terrified to tell them but finally did last night. And all of your bravery came to mind when I did.

You really do inspire me.

Congrats! As has already been said, I do hope it went well!

+1

MrAndrewJ wrote:

Thank you.

I have something that needed to be said to the people around me. I was terrified to tell them but finally did last night. And all of your bravery came to mind when I did.

You really do inspire me.

I'll be nosy: what'd you tell them?

Gravey wrote:

I was about to post this—

So here's a stupid but totally honest question for you, Clock. I still spend a couple bucks on my Xbox avatar from time to time, make sure he's dressed appropriate for the season, and so forth. It's dumb, but I feel a little responsible to the little guy. I know you're not on Xbox anymore, but you play WP games so you're still connected to your Live profile and avatar. Would updating your avatar have any degree of importance, like for (re-)establishing who you are or want to be or anything, or am I too dumb for words for thinking about Xbox avatars in this context?

—But then I though I'd do my due diligence first, and quickly checked the Xbox iPhone app.

:D

I have a new Mii, too. If the rest of you are curious what Gravey's talking about, you can see my new avatar on my Xbox Live profile.

Funny story about that one: you can change your Mii's gender by just changing a toggle on the character page, but switching your Xbox avatar's gender requires deleting your old one and making a new one from scratch. I wish I'd been able to use the facial features and such that I'd picked out before, but I was okay with starting over until an hour or so into the process when I realized that I'd perfectly recreated my mother when she was my age. That was weird and disorienting, and I immediately had to change things. Turns out it was mostly the haircut.

Heh. My 360 avatar has been this for ages and ages. Although I haven't even turned on my 360 in a long time.

Hypatian wrote:

Heh. My 360 avatar has been this for ages and ages. Although I haven't even turned on my 360 in a long time. :)

Adorable.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

Heh. My 360 avatar has been this for ages and ages. Although I haven't even turned on my 360 in a long time. :)

Fedorable. :)

FTFY

I just realized an interesting thing. I'm not that dysphoric about my body, usually—although that's been changing a bit as I get used to the idea of wanting to pay attention to it again. But, I am [em]super[/em] dysphoric about things like in-game avatars and characters. I can kind of deal with a male-only main character in a game (although it makes me sad), but with my XBL avatar, well... At first, I was like "I guess since I have to have this now I'd better make it a guy avatar, because most people seem to put in a representation of themselves, and enough people know I'm a guy that they might get weirded out."

I forget how long that lasted before I nuked it and made a female avatar—not super long. I was actively upset and wigging out over it, I guess probably because of the intrusion of my birth-assigned gender into the online and gaming space that I'd always allowed my "female self" to occupy. Feeling pressured in that one place of refuge just totally set me off.

So: Female avatar, and screw you, world. :p

(Also: I still miss the days before voice chat, when people might have assumed I was male, but it wouldn't be based on anything except the assumption that most gamers are men, even if they play female characters.)

My xbox avatar looks almost exactly like I do. I am pretty pleased with it.

That said, I think when a Sally joins a party most people don't expect my voice (which isn't terribly deep, but is exceedinly masculine. Trust me on this.)

Clock, the short version is that I went through some very damaging, severe abuse from my first girlfriend. If I'm squeamish to give details it's only to prevent spreading the pain. I'll answer elsewhere if asked.

The friends I told were my theater class. I had to learn to accept being touched in order to perform. I finally told them last night why I was scared of physical contact.

They reacted with surprise but, I think, some compassion.

So I had this thing hiding in me, only it can't stay hidden any more. It can't even stay. Shame isn't really an issue. Fear of being disbelieved or dismissed or even scorned (again) was/is a huge issue. It was pretty easy to be inspired by all of you.

In this case I don't want to bring sadness into the thread. Your bravery has helped me. I want to give appreciation instead. Thank you.

I'm still upset that male avatars can't wear hotpants.

Non-touching internet hugs

Tanglebones wrote:

Non-touching internet hugs

+1

Talking about it is the first step so it's still happy news in the thread, not sad.

MrAndrew, I don't think there's any shame. Yours is a personal announcement, one that deserves great cheers for your bravery in being able to say "this is who I am," even if it's not the same type of personal announcement that's been being said prior.

Congratulations on owning that aspect of your life and starting the process of healing with your class. That's a BIG deal, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.