[trailer] Avengers! My day is made

Yonder wrote:

I did. During the movie I was wondering if he figured that he'd only be able to get like half a mile before Thor won the fight and he'd be able to track him down again anyways.

That's how I figured it. If he tried to run away, obviously the fighting superheros would stop and grab him before he could get too far, so why not sit and enjoy the entertainment?

But yeah the characters should've realized he wanted to be caught long before they actually did.

Demyx wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I did. During the movie I was wondering if he figured that he'd only be able to get like half a mile before Thor won the fight and he'd be able to track him down again anyways.

That's how I figured it. If he tried to run away, obviously the fighting superheros would stop and grab him before he could get too far, so why not sit and enjoy the entertainment?

Yeah, that's how the scene played out to me when I watched the movie the first time. Didn't bother me.

Farscry wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I did. During the movie I was wondering if he figured that he'd only be able to get like half a mile before Thor won the fight and he'd be able to track him down again anyways.

That's how I figured it. If he tried to run away, obviously the fighting superheros would stop and grab him before he could get too far, so why not sit and enjoy the entertainment?

Yeah, that's how the scene played out to me when I watched the movie the first time. Didn't bother me.

That, and don't forget he's an effete snob who is much happier making others do the work for him. Hiking off into the toolies would definitely not be part of his plan at any point.

momgamer wrote:
Farscry wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Yonder wrote:

I did. During the movie I was wondering if he figured that he'd only be able to get like half a mile before Thor won the fight and he'd be able to track him down again anyways.

That's how I figured it. If he tried to run away, obviously the fighting superheros would stop and grab him before he could get too far, so why not sit and enjoy the entertainment?

Yeah, that's how the scene played out to me when I watched the movie the first time. Didn't bother me.

That, and don't forget he's an effete snob who is much happier making others do the work for him. Hiking off into the toolies would definitely not be part of his plan at any point.

Also, I doubt Loki is going to pass up on the opportunity to watch Thor get smacked around and insulted by a couple impertinent mortals.

You all make good points, and I accept the conclusions.

My point: Who gives a crap it's a fun movie and it's a funny moment.

There is a time and a place to be pretentious about movies, and The Avengers isn't it.

ccesarano wrote:

There is a time and a place to be pretentious about movies, and The Avengers isn't it.

I wasn't being pretentious....

Ok, so I finally watched this on Blu Ray last night and it was incredibly awesome. Had some really great moments in there and was overall a really enjoyable movie...

But...

Spoiler:

Why was Hulk so pissed off the first time to the point where he goes on a rampage, yet when he comes back at the end "I'm always angry" and is suddenly a nice green smashing machine who looks after his buddies? Like, what did I miss?

BlackSabre wrote:

Ok, so I finally watched this on Blu Ray last night and it was incredibly awesome. Had some really great moments in there and was overall a really enjoyable movie...

But...

Spoiler:

Why was Hulk so pissed off the first time to the point where he goes on a rampage, yet when he comes back at the end "I'm always angry" and is suddenly a nice green smashing machine who looks after his buddies? Like, what did I miss?

Spoiler:

My whole take on it is that there are two different types of being angry.

There's the person that is constantly in a pissy mood and is able to target that anger in hurtful and sarcastic quips at a moment's notice. This is the "I'm always angry".

Then there's the more common rage where people just snap and go ape sh*t on everyone in a screaming match. Considering the scenario, this was Bruce. Plus, it was a lot of emotions at once. He was already angry at SHIELD, he had just seen that the tesseract was at Stark Tower (never stated but kind of implied), and then BOOM! It was a little much for him to handle emotionally, and thus he lost control.

Basically, he lost control in his first Hulk out, but his second Hulk out he CHOSE to go Hulk and was thus able to target his anger.

Does that make sense?

ccesarano is correct. Plus, it's not like he's a princess as the Hulk. He's still all "Hulk Smash", and punching Thor's in the head.

More Hulk stuff:

Spoiler:

On the Helicarrier, he doesn't go on a rampage. He stomps around and roars at Black Widow, but he doesn't seriously pursue her until AFTER she pulls a gun on him and shoots a steam pipe above his head. And even then, what does he do? He shoulder-checks her into a wall, gently enough that she doesn't sustain any serious injuries. Despite all her awesome skills, Natasha is just a fragile human being - if he really wanted to, Hulk could have smashed her into a fine paste. Compare this to The Incredible Hulk: Blonsky is full of super-soldier serum, and Hulk still manages to pulverize every bone in his body with a single kick. Yes, Hulk did raise his hand menacingly after he had Natasha cornered, but he could have just been telling her to stay down. In the fight in New York, Hulk doesn't waste his time with menacing gestures: he's fast, efficient, and deadly.

Then, before he can do anything else, Thor attacks him. Naturally, he fights back. Then, the jet opens fire and he responds to that threat. And what does he do? He destroys the jet without harming the pilot. Yes, he does catch the pilot as he tries to eject, but instead of crushing him he flings the pilot away from the jet, which explodes moments later.

Throughout that entire sequence of events, Hulk manages to defend himself without seriously harming anyone, while at the same time putting on a big, intimidating show. That's not a rampage, that's just his usual "leave Hulk alone!" display of force. To top it off, he manages to act with that much restraint while he's on a crashing Helicarrier, with Loki trying to mess with his head.

Spoiler:

I disagree with that assessment of him being that much in control. There's a reason he looks at Black Widow with sadness right before his transformation is complete. I don't think he manages to break every bone in Black Widow's body because 1) I'm not going to give the writers enough credit to believe they thought about inconsistencies, and just didn't think about a single kick doing the damage it did to Tim Roth in Incredible Hulk. They just had her get hit because holy sh*t Hulk, and 2) if we want to analyze it minutely, he was basically flailing around charging forward. It wasn't an aimed hit focused on causing harm.

I do believe he was completely Hulking out and out of control on the Helicarrier. Black Widow was the nearest first target (if he just wanted to be left alone he would have gone AWAY from Black Widow, who was already trying to flee), and then Thor became the primary distraction because, hey, he's Thor, he can take it. But most of all, a Hulk that just wants to be left alone doesn't catch an ejecting pilot and then throw him violently aside.

BlackSabre wrote:

Ok, so I finally watched this on Blu Ray last night and it was incredibly awesome. Had some really great moments in there and was overall a really enjoyable movie...

But...

Spoiler:

Why was Hulk so pissed off the first time to the point where he goes on a rampage, yet when he comes back at the end "I'm always angry" and is suddenly a nice green smashing machine who looks after his buddies? Like, what did I miss?

Spoiler:

Loki's scepter.

I know it was 3Dified in post-production... but I have a new favorite 3D movie.

Amazon had the combo pack on sale for $20 last week, otherwise I would have skipped buying that version. Totally worth it if you have a set.

Rezzy wrote:

I know it was 3Dified in post-production... but I have a new favorite 3D movie.

Sometimes, post 3D work isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially in this case, where it was clear that Whedon intended to make it in 3D to begin with, but since the cameras weren't working for him, he at least set up the photography and compositions to accommodate a 3D effect. Except during the Worm's-Eye-View scene when the big wormy flying thing passes all the Avengers' heads-- that was too much motion blur in too many directions with a 3D effect on top of that-- I couldn't focus on the screen at all during those sorts of scenes.

WipEout wrote:

I couldn't focus on the screen at all during those sorts of scenes.

I deleted several attempts at including that single criticism of the effect and decided instead to just not mention it.

ccesarano wrote:
Spoiler:

I do believe he was completely Hulking out and out of control on the Helicarrier.

I've given it some more thought, and I think I can refine my point down to this: I disagree with the notion that Helicarrier Hulk was "out of control", vs. New York Hulk being "in control". Assuming, of course, that people mean that Banner is the one doing the controlling.

I think Hulk's antics on the Helicarrier are an example of Banner fighting for control. The transformation is forced and painful, and afterwards Hulk is slow, clumsy, and angry. He hesitates and staggers around, and intentionally holds back so he doesn't seriously injure anyone (you can argue that he just didn't get a chance to kill Natasha, but if he'd wanted the pilot dead all he needed to do was squeeze).

On the other hand, Hulk in New York isn't under Banner's control, he's finally set free. Banner doesn't need to "control" the transformation, we know this from his story about the bullet. Any time Banner fully surrenders, Hulk takes over. Plus, Hulk's display of ferocity in New York doesn't seem like the actions of Banner controlling the Hulk. Banner's reluctant to harm anyone, but Hulk's a big green pile of raw emotion and animal instinct. Banner would still hesitate and hold back, but a completely unleashed Hulk is free of such constraints: he acts without hesitation and proceeds to rapidly identify and eliminate all immediate threats. Hulk's not just some mindless beast who flails around randomly without Banner to guide him, he's good at smashing. He's the goddamn Beethoven of beatdowns. He's free to act, and he's doing what he does best. And if you need any further evidence, I offer this: the fight in New York is the only time we see Hulk smile.

Yeah, I like that interpretation too. It definitely seems like Hulk is Banner's most natural state, and everything else is just him imposing limits on himself. It fits in with Stark's interpretation too: "You're tip-toeing, big man. You need to strut."

I still like (I think it was) Malor's suggestion that Banner is the Hulk's psychosis, rather than the other way around. Helicarrier Hulk is when the sheer scope of emotion breaks through Banner's shield and the Hulk is able to surface, but fighting Banner the entire time; New York Hulk is when Banner intentionally stops fighting and the Hulk can come out fully and completely.

Muttonchop and Chumpy get high levels of agreement from me!

Also - there is a world war hulk movie. It's animated, but...not really that bad at all.

The hulk conversation here echoes my only real critique of the film. The rationale folks are discussing might make sense, but the directors/script did nothing to provide insight into what's really going on. Before NY, everyone assumes the hulk is some crazy mo-fo who can't be trusted or communicated with out of 'banner mode'. In NY, he's just one of the heroes that Ironman can depend on to get the job done. There's no yoga training, no sensei providing the wisdom needed to be great, no crusty janitor throwing Banner a magic pair of elastic underwear that keeps his rage focuse....hmmm. I wonder...

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Aside from one somewhat ominous shot, there's no evidence for that in the movie.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Aside from one somewhat ominous shot, there's no evidence for that in the movie.

Outside evidence is that it's one of the

Spoiler:

gems from the infinity gauntlet, which has the power to alter moods.

It also is directly responsible for mind-controlling several folks, so it's well within the scepter's portfolio of powers.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Aside from one somewhat ominous shot, there's no evidence for that in the movie.

It's foreshadowed when everyone is starting to freak out and Banner is touching the scepter without realizing it.

Demyx wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Aside from one somewhat ominous shot, there's no evidence for that in the movie.

It's foreshadowed when everyone is starting to freak out and Banner is touching the scepter without realizing it.

But it's also perfectly possible to explain that scene as a bunch of people who already don't like one another getting worked up and the guy with subliminal anger issues picking up a weapon without realizing it. The general inference seems to be that there's some kind of mind control going on to get everyone pissy, but there's nothing to suggest remote mind control of the Hulk by Loki via the scepter (especially when the scepter's on the other side of the ship from both of them).

HULK DOUBLE POST!

Wasn't there a shot of everyone arguing which pans upside down to show the scepter? Then it goes to Loki smirking and back to Banner acting increasingly angry and unknowingly picking up the scepter? I thought that was inference enough. Plus, NY Hulk grabbed Ironman before he fell and shielded him from the fall. He even waited for him to wake up and shocked him back to life. Those are not the actions of Hulk on the aircarrir, let alone Hulk in general. (see Harlem)

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demyx wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's the scepter that makes him go crazy in the airship.

Aside from one somewhat ominous shot, there's no evidence for that in the movie.

It's foreshadowed when everyone is starting to freak out and Banner is touching the scepter without realizing it.

But it's also perfectly possible to explain that scene as a bunch of people who already don't like one another getting worked up and the guy with subliminal anger issues picking up a weapon without realizing it. The general inference seems to be that there's some kind of mind control going on to get everyone pissy, but there's nothing to suggest remote mind control of the Hulk by Loki via the scepter (especially when the scepter's on the other side of the ship from both of them).

It certainly isn't definitive, but it was heavily implied. I think that's the point. One of those 'not making everything blatant, leaving some room for interpretation' bits. Though noteworthy is that Stark, the one guy explicitly shown to be immune to the staff's power, is just as crotchety as everyone else in the lab scene. Admittedly he doesn't really get belligerent, just sarcastic, and that seems to be his default state.

Is the bolded bit referring to when Hulk rampages or before?

Miashara wrote:

Is the bolded bit referring to when Hulk rampages or before?

When he's going crazy around the airship. Obviously it's in the room with Banner et al. up until the first explosion.