This is Not the Boogle Memorial Dating Advice/Tips Thread, No

unntrlaffinity wrote:

See, it is the same, because I can really say that. From my point of view, expecting gibberish to be Cantonese is exactly like someone saying I should dance by just ... dancing. Ya dig?

Try this out--dance just by moving to the music. It's less like trying to speak Cantonese by spouting gibberish, and more like learning to run by trying to move as fast as you can by repeatedly putting one foot in front of the other.

CheezePavilion wrote:
unntrlaffinity wrote:

See, it is the same, because I can really say that. From my point of view, expecting gibberish to be Cantonese is exactly like someone saying I should dance by just ... dancing. Ya dig?

Try this out--dance just by moving to the music. It's less like trying to speak Cantonese by spouting gibberish, and more like learning to run by trying to move as fast as you can by repeatedly putting one foot in front of the other.

That's actually a remarkably bad way to learn how to run.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

I am pointing out that people are assuming shyness or embarrassment is the big hurdle, and it's not. If you can't wrap your head around that, you probably can't see where I'm coming from.

I still say my point still stands. If you ever have the urge to move to other, more preferable, genres of music, then I say let that same emotion take over you.

I'd hardly call what I do "dancing" in the traditional sense, as, again, it just involves lots of jumping, head banging and other motions that look more at home at a metal concert than on a dance floor. But f*ck it, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how I should move that "fits" regular dance music. I used to feel that same paralysis. But then one day I just let it go and had a lot of fun.

This is, however, assuming you have any physical expression in your enjoyment of music.

Delerat wrote:

See, life has a tendency to give me zero possible relationships, and then suddenly there are three and I have to make horrible decisions like an adult!

My first thought was Paragon, Renegade and Neutral.

Someone earlier suggested that things like "I'm not interested in a relationship right now" are just a defense mechanism. Either way, go there and just have fun conversing.

As for the Disney movie, I'll let an old comic I made speak for itself.

@unntrlaffinity - Sorry, I'm not trying to be arrogant(not too much anyways). I'm not exactly saying dance by dancing, that's vague. I AM saying dance by moving your body randomly, even if it's not to the rhythm. Unless you're in a wheelchair or have lost motor functions, you are able to move your limbs. If you can walk around your home, sit down on a couch, reach out and grab things, you are physically able to dance. I'm not saying I think that you're secretly embarrassed to do it either, I'm saying that you're complicating it. Nevermind knowing how to actually dance a proper dance, or dance well, or do real moves, you can at least dance badly and become comfortable with your body by just moving your body randomly.

#1 - Move your limbs randomly, but creatively.
#2 - Mimic things you've seen whether in the real world or on TV. It doesn't have to be in fine detail either, just generally similar to what they're doing.

I'm trying not to be too aggressive about this, but apparently I feel strongly about it

Ophelia has some relation to this girl, so it actually works.
Miyazaki movies are distributed by Disney over here, but I wouldn't really count them. I wouldn't count Pixar either. We're likely going to watch Mulan.

@LarryC - I'm not sure I'm really interested in sex with Tammy if I'm going to pursue something with Ophelia, and my snap judgement of her tells me she's not into that anyways, but I could be wrong. Honestly though, I'm an up front kind of guy. If I was interested in something like that with Tammy I would probably just say something like "Hey, I know you're not interested in a relationship, but would you be interested in just messing around?". I'm pretty good at selling myself as a super nice guy and gain trust very quickly by dropping my guard and giving TMI

@ccesarano - Wall-E makes me sad and unable to satisfy anyone.

If all else fails, Oppa Gangnam Style.

ccesarano wrote:

If all else fails, Oppa Gangnam Style.

That could satisfy anyone

In other news, Austin home of attractive women.
Austin, where attractive women wear KISS shirts.
Austin, where said women do not get my KISS jokes.

Krumping!!

Delerat wrote:

@unntrlaffinity - Sorry, I'm not trying to be arrogant(not too much anyways).

I'm trying not to be too aggressive about this, but apparently I feel strongly about it :P

Yeah, I think we're not simpatico. Which is cool, but even your comment about body comfort and Cces's about body paralysis aren't what I'm talking about.

NathanialG wrote:

Krumping!!

I'll make note of that for PHASE II.

Delerat:

Cool. Subtlety's the name of the game, though. If the girl says, "Wants to be friends," she's either really not interested, or is kind of interested, but has concerns about you for some reason. In both cases, nice and easy does it.

Re: dancing

I could make an analogy. You guys are telling unntrlaffinity that he doesn't need Corel, that Picasa is da bomb, and even if all that fails, Windows Photo editing will do. He's still trying to install his display drivers. He needs a source for really, really, really basic stuff. Another analogy is that you can't teach a kid to walk by telling him or her to "just do it." They need to develop the hardware, and then basically trial-and-error the drivers for making their legs work.

He needs DL sites for drivers, not applications.

Here is an example of advice that might be useful (maybe):

1. Listen to "Call Me Maybe"
2. While sitting, listen and concentrate to the beating of the bass drum (the loud thumping thing).
3. Like playing Rock Band, time stomping your left foot lightly on the floor with the thump, as if you were playing the drum yourself.
4. Repeat until it no longer requires conscious thought.

LarryC wrote:

1. Listen to "Call Me Maybe"
2. While sitting, listen and concentrate to the beating of the bass drum (the loud thumping thing).
3. Like playing Rock Band, time stomping your left foot lightly on the floor with the thump, as if you were playing the drum yourself.
4. Repeat until it no longer requires conscious thought.

That's probably the perfect advice right there. Dancing is more complicated than tapping your foot by degrees, not orders of magnitude. If you can tap your toes, fingers or nod your head in time to music then you are 95% equipped to dance in a club.

The majority of advice in this thread about dating in general has boiled down to 2 fundamentals 1) don't overthink it and B) just go for it. This same advice stands for dancing. Dancing is toe-tapping +1 not a complicated new language.

Unless one is totally dissociated from music for some reason and can't even get a good toe tap going.

Grubber788 wrote:

Immersion is the best way to learn Mandarin ;)

I don't know about you guys, but given Grubber's previous posts, I'm taking it as he just scored with a Chinese girl in HK, and not that he's commenting on the dancing thing.

And in case I'm right, congrats feller! With enough Immersion, you'll pick it up in no time

And if I'm wrong, oh well, whatever LarryC said.

Delerat wrote:

Hahaha I love life. I got a nice stomach pinch when I suddenly got a response from that bus girl(let's call her Tammy). See, life has a tendency to give me zero possible relationships, and then suddenly there are three and I have to make horrible decisions like an adult!

For the record, it's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time. There's nothing wrong with it. When you start getting serious with one of them, that's the time to think about breaking things off with the other, but there's nothing wrong with keeping your options open while you get to know them both. The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

hbi2k wrote:

The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

This is the magic stuff, right here.

If you can get yourself to the point where you can ask a girl out, and honestly (like, really honestly) be okay with either a yes or no response, you are in the zone. It's incredibly liberating, because it lets you shed all that nervous energy. At least for me, most of that nervousness came from fear of getting a no, and the associated fear that a no meant I'd be alone forever. Once you get your head to a place where you embrace that A) being alone is okay too, and B) you will likely not end up alone unless it's by choice, it's surprisingly easy and natural to say "I think you're neat, would you want to get coffee/food some time?"

LarryC wrote:

I could make an analogy. You guys are telling unntrlaffinity that he doesn't need Corel, that Picasa is da bomb, and even if all that fails, Windows Photo editing will do. He's still trying to install his display drivers. He needs a source for really, really, really basic stuff. Another analogy is that you can't teach a kid to walk by telling him or her to "just do it." They need to develop the hardware, and then basically trial-and-error the drivers for making their legs work.

He needs DL sites for drivers, not applications.

This is one of the reasons I brought up how he behaves with other music, and if he doesn't even move around with the music he usually listens to then my advice would be pretty worthless. That was just my stepping stone. I wasn't sure if he was at a similar spot I was in or not, though.

I suppose it helps that I was also raised to be a percussionist, so I already got music in my blood a bit. I already know how to listen for rhythms and beats because those are what are most important in percussion. So to put it another nerdy way, I've already got several skill points invested in Knowledge (Music) that I get a bonus in Perform(Dance).

...okay that analogy was horrible. Maybe I should have used Feats instead.

hbi2k wrote:

For the record, it's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time. There's nothing wrong with it. When you start getting serious with one of them, that's the time to think about breaking things off with the other, but there's nothing wrong with keeping your options open while you get to know them both. The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

I would add a caveat to that.

It's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time, as long as neither girl is under the mistaken apprehension that her relationship with you is exclusive.

Otherwise, you're behaving like an douchewaffle, plain and simple.

Rule of thumb, if the idea of disclosing that you're also dating someone else feels uncomfortable, then you're past the point at which you should have disclosed it already.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

Yeah, I think we're not simpatico. Which is cool, but even your comment about body comfort and Cces's about body paralysis aren't what I'm talking about.

Then I guess I don't exactly get the problem. You stated before that it was the fact that it makes you feel self-conscious. I figure moving your body in that way more is a direct solution to that problem compared to the slower solution of lessons. I still think you should definitely take lessons, but moving around to music is something you should be able to do now without guidance.


LarryC wrote:

I could make an analogy. You guys are telling unntrlaffinity that he doesn't need Corel, that Picasa is da bomb, and even if all that fails, Windows Photo editing will do. He's still trying to install his display drivers. He needs a source for really, really, really basic stuff. Another analogy is that you can't teach a kid to walk by telling him or her to "just do it." They need to develop the hardware, and then basically trial-and-error the drivers for making their legs work.

He needs DL sites for drivers, not applications.

I'm starting to think that either there isn't a good analogy for this, or we're all terrible at it. I feel like the ability to move your body around is the equivalent to having the drivers. He even has Paint installed, but has never launched it and has no shortcut for it. I'm saying open up paint and start slapping colors down randomly, from there you'll learn what the pencil, the brush, and the fill bucket does. It doesn't matter if what you end up with is what other people would consider art, the attempt itself is a teaching tool.


hbi2k wrote:

For the record, it's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time. There's nothing wrong with it. When you start getting serious with one of them, that's the time to think about breaking things off with the other, but there's nothing wrong with keeping your options open while you get to know them both. The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

I'm aware it's socially acceptable to date multiple people. If it was just going out with two girls with no physical stuff involved then I'd probably be fine with it, but then I wouldn't really consider those dates. If there isn't at least a kiss involved it would just seem like hanging out with a friend and wouldn't bother me, but I can't get physical with two girls at the same time(at least not in separate rooms ;)), it damages that little morality processor inside of me.


Chaz wrote:

If you can get yourself to the point where you can ask a girl out, and honestly (like, really honestly) be okay with either a yes or no response, you are in the zone. It's incredibly liberating, because it lets you shed all that nervous energy. At least for me, most of that nervousness came from fear of getting a no, and the associated fear that a no meant I'd be alone forever. Once you get your head to a place where you embrace that A) being alone is okay too, and B) you will likely not end up alone unless it's by choice, it's surprisingly easy and natural to say "I think you're neat, would you want to get coffee/food some time?"

See I think I've reached this point, but not all of the fear is of rejection. A lot of it is for the interaction itself, having enough interesting things to say. I don't get that just with girls though, I get that with anyone who isn't a close friend of mine. "Being alone is okay too" is a really hard one if you haven't dated much. Sure there are nice things about being single, and it IS okay, but damn, when 99% of your life is being single it's hard to think it's okay not to add variety to that. I'm sure it's a lot easier if you've come out of a really bad relationship though. Perhaps another advantage to sticking it in crazy

If it hasn't become apparent, this is my favourite thread on all of GWJ. I loathe the weeks when it would go inactive.

Jonman wrote:

It's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time, as long as neither girl is under the mistaken apprehension that her relationship with you is exclusive.

Otherwise, you're behaving like an douchewaffle, plain and simple.

Rule of thumb, if the idea of disclosing that you're also dating someone else feels uncomfortable, then you're past the point at which you should have disclosed it already.

The hard part is that some girls understand how dating works, and others think that once you're on date 2 or 3, or have had a kiss, that you're exclusive. A reason why I wish communication was a more popular thing.

Delerat wrote:
Jonman wrote:

It's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time, as long as neither girl is under the mistaken apprehension that her relationship with you is exclusive.

Otherwise, you're behaving like an douchewaffle, plain and simple.

Rule of thumb, if the idea of disclosing that you're also dating someone else feels uncomfortable, then you're past the point at which you should have disclosed it already.

The hard part is that some girls understand how dating works, and others think that once you're on date 2 or 3, or have had a kiss, that you're exclusive. A reason why I wish communication was a more popular thing.

Exactly my point. I've been that douchewaffle at one point in the past, and it's one of my few regrets.

Thing is, there is no monolithic "the way dating works". Which is precisely why it's so important that you make sure that everyone is on the same page. If you're dating someone else, mention it on the first date with a new person.

I was shirtless, standing around at a party when a girl dressed up as a dinosaur walked up to me and wrote, "SLUT" on my arm in green marker. Then we made out. I saw her at a later party, got her number, and took her out to a nice dinner. Her name was Haley.

Meanwhile, a female friend and I are waiting in line at a club, when she points out a random girl in front of us as being a girl from her high school that she didn't like. Mostly to piss my friend off, I start chatting this girl up. I end up taking her out to dinner, and a couple other dates. Her name was Annie.

After two weeks of concurrent dating, Annie drops a line that she's a member of a group that supports religious, social, political, and moral views wildly different from mine, so I decide that this needs to end. I make plans to see her (so I can end it) at 2 PM at the Black Mug the next day.

At 1 PM that day Haley calls me over to the Black Mug, which we both happened to be near to, and she dumps me in order to keep things going between her and one of her guy friends. I didn't really pay attention to the whole story. As Haley gets up to leave, she says hi to Annie at the door. It turns out that Annie and Haley went to the same highschool. They didn't like each other much either. I preceeded to secure the double kill from the same seat with the same cup of coffee in front of me.

Four months later I would begin dating another girl from that same high school. Mind you, this high school is in a different city, none of us are in high school, and we all live in a city. WTF!

She didn't like Annie and was neutral towards Haley. It was a big school I guess.

Jonman wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

For the record, it's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time. There's nothing wrong with it. When you start getting serious with one of them, that's the time to think about breaking things off with the other, but there's nothing wrong with keeping your options open while you get to know them both. The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

I would add a caveat to that.

It's okay to casually date more than one girl at the same time, as long as neither girl is under the mistaken apprehension that her relationship with you is exclusive.

Otherwise, you're behaving like an douchewaffle, plain and simple.

Rule of thumb, if the idea of disclosing that you're also dating someone else feels uncomfortable, then you're past the point at which you should have disclosed it already.

I will add a caveat to your caveat: it is wrong to date more than one girl at the same time when one or more of them is under the mistaken impression that you're exclusive, provided that you have contributed to that mistaken impression by misleading her in some way.

If exclusivity is important to her at the stage you're at together, it's her job to make that clear to you. It's not your job to divine her unspoken rule that "three dates + kiss = exclusivity". At the same time, if she DOES broach the subject, it is of course on you to make it clear that you don't consider yourself exclusive (without getting into uncomfortable details that she does not want to hear). If you brush her off with a not-quite-denial ("Don't be silly, you're the only one I'm interested in. Her? No, just a friend.") then, yes, clear douche-nozzle territory.

And I would heartily disagree that the first date is the time to disclose your current dating success rate. The first date is the time to get to know someone well enough to determine if there should be a second date. Sitting down for that first cup of coffee and offering, apropos of nothing, "By the way, I went on a second date with another girl yesterday and am going on a third date with yet another girl tomorrow" is a good way to either, 1.) look like you're bragging, and probably lying to boot, in a cynical attempt to get her to "compete" with other women for your affections, or 2.) look like YOU'RE the one who wants to discuss exclusivity, which is way too serious to be getting for a first date, or both.

YMMV on when the best time is to discuss exclusivity, but the first date ain't it.

hbi2k wrote:

I will add a caveat to your caveat: it is wrong to date more than one girl at the same time when one or more of them is under the mistaken impression that you're exclusive, provided that you have contributed to that mistaken impression by misleading her in some way.

My take is that by staying silent on the matter, you are contributing to the impression that you're not dating anyone else. You are misleading her, because the assumption is usually that you're not dating anyone else.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the yoof of today are more down with casual dating.

Personally I can't wrap my idea over having two first dates at roughly the same time, so I'll just leave it to you guys to sort out.

However, it still seems like a strange thing to broach. Is it really that common to have multiple options open? It seems usually people go on a first date, maybe second, and if it doesn't work move on. I dunno. I've rarely observed such a situation, let alone experienced it. It just seems rather tricky to handle.

ccesarano wrote:

Personally I can't wrap my idea over having two first dates at roughly the same time, so I'll just leave it to you guys to sort out.

However, it still seems like a strange thing to broach. Is it really that common to have multiple options open? It seems usually people go on a first date, maybe second, and if it doesn't work move on. I dunno. I've rarely observed such a situation, let alone experienced it. It just seems rather tricky to handle.

I think American and some Western cultures have higher expectations of formally defining "date". Which can be confusing as hell, because people view relationships vastly differently, for obvious reasons (I don't really see it as some girls or guys "understanding" dating). It's bizarre how often I try to explain the concept to other backpackers.

If you're actively social you're going to encounter lots of people. As you get better with casual conversations and interactions, a lot more of them will lead to, I don't know, "dates". Coffee. A trip to a museum. A show. A drink.

If I'm planning to meet up with Amy at a local art exhibit, but then I run into Rebecca at a local book signing, that could be seen as two first dates. I don't know either of them very well, and I don't see a problem with it. Maybe after 10 minutes you'll be smitten with one and abhor the other, but at this point it's all nebulous and more likely you'll just find different things you like about both.

Jonman wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

I will add a caveat to your caveat: it is wrong to date more than one girl at the same time when one or more of them is under the mistaken impression that you're exclusive, provided that you have contributed to that mistaken impression by misleading her in some way.

My take is that by staying silent on the matter, you are contributing to the impression that you're not dating anyone else. You are misleading her, because the assumption is usually that you're not dating anyone else.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the yoof of today are more down with casual dating.

I'm more in line with hbi, but Jonman's approach is more practical. Once you realize your feelings would be hurt if she were still seeing someone else, or conversely that her feelings would be hurt if you were, it's probably time to have a simple conversation on what you each want. So for me, the point of realization is key, which may not be quite as preemptive as what Jon's talking about.

Falchion wrote:
Grubber788 wrote:

Immersion is the best way to learn Mandarin ;)

I don't know about you guys, but given Grubber's previous posts, I'm taking it as he just scored with a Chinese girl in HK, and not that he's commenting on the dancing thing.

And in case I'm right, congrats feller! With enough Immersion, you'll pick it up in no time

And if I'm wrong, oh well, whatever LarryC said.

Haha, I wish that were true. I guess you'll just have to settle with the bolded statement.

Delerat wrote:

Then I guess I don't exactly get the problem.

Exactly, and that's okay.

I've gotten some good advice, and it's probably worth dropping the whole thing at this point. But to explain where I'm coming from, I really don't move or bob that much when listening to music. To the point of where if a friend notices I'm shaking my foot, it's a BIG DEAL. Too bad it's usually because of the ol' restless leg syndrome. I'm actually shaking my foot right now, and didn't realize it.

Squee9 wrote:

Four months later I would begin dating another girl from that same high school. Mind you, this high school is in a different city, none of us are in high school, and we all live in a city. WTF!

She didn't like Annie and was neutral towards Haley. It was a big school I guess.

Any idea if their dates were all from YOUR school? Maybe you're all the wonderful victims of SCIENCE.

hbi2k wrote:

The added confidence of knowing that you've got a Plan B and not feeling like "ohgod if I screw it up with this one then I've got nobody and I'll wind up aloooooooone!" will only serve to make you more attractive.

I know it's probably impossible, but I've been trying to avoid ranking people I like into Plan A, Plan B, etc., even in my head. It just feels weird once you think about it, and mildly insulting. I've turned down women once I realized I was their third or fourth choice. Plan B or 2nd place I can live with. But this guy doesn't settle for no bronze or ribbons.

At least that I know of.

Delerat wrote:

See I think I've reached this point, but not all of the fear is of rejection.

I actually like the nervousness and fear you and Chaz are talking about. And once you feel more comfortable being alone, it's no more dangerous than the guided terror of a theme park ride.

Delerat wrote:

If there isn't at least a kiss involved it would just seem like hanging out with a friend and wouldn't bother me, but I can't get physical with two girls at the same time(at least not in separate rooms ;)), it damages that little morality processor inside of me.

My morality processor is clocked differently. I used to have similar feelings, but in my case I never had many opportunities to put those theories into practice to test their mettle. I also think I was committed to exclusivity more out of jealously and fear than anything else.

LarryC wrote:

1. Listen to "Call Me Maybe"
2. While sitting, listen and concentrate to the beating of the bass drum (the loud thumping thing).
3. Like playing Rock Band, time stomping your left foot lightly on the floor with the thump, as if you were playing the drum yourself.
4. Repeat until it no longer requires conscious thought.

I heard "Call Me, Maybe" for the first time yesterday. I'm a bit out of touch since I'm traveling, and judging purely by the lyrics in memes I had thought it was a hip-hop song.

I'm also new to that P!nk song with the weird French film video. Toe-tapping homework self-assigned!

Future karaoke setlist done and done.

Jonman wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

I will add a caveat to your caveat: it is wrong to date more than one girl at the same time when one or more of them is under the mistaken impression that you're exclusive, provided that you have contributed to that mistaken impression by misleading her in some way.

My take is that by staying silent on the matter, you are contributing to the impression that you're not dating anyone else. You are misleading her, because the assumption is usually that you're not dating anyone else.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the yoof of today are more down with casual dating.

You are absolutely wrong. The assumption is that you are awesome, so of course you have women beating down your door. That is the right and natural order of things, because of how awesome you are. If she wants your awesomeness all to herself, that is a conversation you are willing to have, but sans that conversation, your awesomeness will go where it will.

Even if it's not literally true at that particular moment, that is the attitude you should cultivate in yourself.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

I know it's probably impossible, but I've been trying to avoid ranking people I like into Plan A, Plan B, etc., even in my head. It just feels weird once you think about it, and mildly insulting.

I would put it this way: the woman you are with is your Plan A.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. Maybe deep down you must like one person more than another, similar to how a parent may have a favorite child. But I make time for different people for different reasons.

hbi2k wrote:

You are absolutely wrong. The assumption is that you are awesome, so of course you have women beating down your door. That is the right and natural order of things, because of how awesome you are. If she wants your awesomeness all to herself, that is a conversation you are willing to have, but sans that conversation, your awesomeness will go where it will.

But if you know she's under the impression that your awesomeness is exclusive, and you don't clarify the situation, you're still a jerk. Awesome or not.

hbi2k:

This is a little meta, but the "awesomeness" speech is largely something we reserve for those of our brothers and sisters who have a problem opening up to dating and seeing men or women for sexual purposes. This is especially appropriate for people who may have self-esteem hurdles.

For people who DO really have women breaking down their doors for dates, the disclosure issue is a lot more relevant. We don't speak about our awesomeness in these conversations, because we all already know and believe in our own awesomeness. So in those discussions, the issue becomes one of ethics and communication.

I side with Jonman in saying that if you don't want exclusivity, I think that needs to be made explicit on the first date (because sex can happen on the first date), to avoid behaving like a jerk despite best intentions. It's a little CYA and a little bit of basic human courtesy.