Nextbox rumors..

You obviously don't play flight sims or driving games.

I think there's scope for Augmented Reality, as in, while wearing the glasses you see a goblin in your living room, jumping on all the objects. But, it'll take some new types of games to make it work well, and not just old games shoehorned in, and that's hard, and I think an especially hard sell for the big-budget end of the market.

One thing I was thinking the other night with the Guild Wars 2 camera being so zoomed in, is that I wouldn't mind a VR addition to the camera, where in addition to the current system where it rotates around your character, by head movements you could look around (pitch/yaw) from the cameras current location for a better view of the battlefield.

DSGamer wrote:

Weird thing is I find a good handheld or tablet game can be mentally immersive. I guess I don't get the desire for head-tracking, VR glasses and the like. Once the controller melts into my hands and I'm locked in I tend to get pretty immersed if the game is good.

I'd say captivated, sure. But immersed? I don't know... This word gets abused night and day as far as I'm concerned.

I've pledged for an Oculus Rift dev kit so I guess I'll know pretty soon if it really makes a difference once the novelty wears off.

My bet is on f*ck yeah.

Guild Wars 2 would be amazing with some sort of VR implementation. I am drooling thinking of underwater combat... (drooling underwater is kinda gross)

DSGamer wrote:

I hate to due this, ... Mostly because I studied English in college

I'm just going to let that one speak for itself.

Anyhow, immersion. I like to think of it as the mental equivalent of being underwater, or to use the dictionary definition, imagine a sponge absorbing the game environment, that mentally you are in that world. It's almost as though your brain flicks into another mode, whereas in the real world you would move your neck and eyes to look around, in the 'game' mode the muscle memory would be the arm/wrist to move the mouse or thumb on the joypad stick.

Mr.Green wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Weird thing is I find a good handheld or tablet game can be mentally immersive. I guess I don't get the desire for head-tracking, VR glasses and the like. Once the controller melts into my hands and I'm locked in I tend to get pretty immersed if the game is good.

I'd say captivated, sure. But immersed? I don't know... This word gets abused night and day as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree. I hate to do this, but I'm going to cite the official definition. Mostly because I studied English in college and long before immersion was used by the tech community to mean one thing it most certainly could refer to reading a book, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immersion

3. state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.

The first two refer to literal immersion. Like in a tub.

EDIT: Edited ironic typo.

Scratched wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

I hate to due this, ... Mostly because I studied English in college

I'm just going to let that one speak for itself.

Anyhow, immersion. I like to think of it as the mental equivalent of being underwater, or to use the dictionary definition, imagine a sponge absorbing the game environment, that mentally you are in that world. It's almost as though your brain flicks into another mode, whereas in the real world you would move your neck and eyes to look around, in the 'game' mode the muscle memory would be the arm/wrist to move the mouse or thumb on the joypad stick.

Hahaha. Oops. Yeah. I deserve that. I stick to immersion being valid to describe someone getting immersed in a book, game, etc.

Immersion is valid to describe the state of being immersed? I guess English majors don't have to take any logic courses.

A book is easy for me to be "immersed" in. It's entirely imaginary so the fact that it's happening in a sensory deprivation tank is beneficial. Gaming however is about stimulating the senses. Sure you might be able to get wrapped up in a well-executed game, but to take it back to the water it's like saying scuba-diving in a dive pool is fun. The more you add to it, the better it gets. Open water diving with great visibility can't even begin to be described by that experience. That's why I made the comment about DS not playing flight sims or racers. Playing that on a handheld can't even begin to compare to playing it on a triple-head, large screen system with headtracking and force feedback. Simulation here is the keyword. So saying you can't see the draw for head tracking and the like is myopic, even if that's not your style of gaming. Will it improve Rayman or Super Mario Brothers? No, but that doesn't mean the technology is hype.

DSGamer wrote:
Mr.Green wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Weird thing is I find a good handheld or tablet game can be mentally immersive. I guess I don't get the desire for head-tracking, VR glasses and the like. Once the controller melts into my hands and I'm locked in I tend to get pretty immersed if the game is good.

I'd say captivated, sure. But immersed? I don't know... This word gets abused night and day as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree. I hate to do this, but I'm going to cite the official definition. Mostly because I studied English in college and long before immersion was used by the tech community to mean one thing it most certainly could refer to reading a book, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immersion

3. state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.

The first two refer to literal immersion. Like in a tub.

EDIT: Edited ironic typo.

So I guess the dictionnary gives you the right to use that word as you see fit...

Anyway, illiterate gamers usually refer to that word to describe the sense of actually being the main character in the game world. I have an excuse, french is my first language.

There is no way in my mind that an iPad is as good at that as a quality HMD. Not without getting intoxicated anyway.

Please take a moment - or not - to read this. Some guy who tried the Oculus Rift for 20 minutes playing Doom 3 answered some questions on reddit. If it doesn’t at least make you wanna try that thing for yourself, then you're dead to me!

Mr.Green wrote:

I have an excuse, french is my first language.

Excuse me, sir, but the French are at the door and they have an issue with your language affiliation...

IMAGE(http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/180761d1314393967-funny-strange-random-pics-ogre.jpg)

Duoae wrote:
Mr.Green wrote:

I have an excuse, french is my first language.

Excuse me, sir, but the French are at the door and they have an issue with your language affiliation...

;)

THEY CAN TAKE IT BACK FOR ALL I CARE!

Aaron D. wrote:

Nerds

When you get called a nerd by another nerd you know it's pretty bad...

I was immersed in Thief at 1152x864 on a 17" CRT with stereo headphones.

Edit: I had EAX 2.0 on a SoundBlaster Live card though (Thief was one of the pack-ins in fact), so that definitely helped.

Gravey wrote:

Edit: I had EAX 2.0 on a SoundBlaster Live card though (Thief was one of the pack-ins in fact), so that definitely helped.

I feel for you, missing out on A3D.

Gravey wrote:

I was immersed in Thief at 1152x864 on a 17" CRT with stereo headphones.

Edit: I had EAX 2.0 on a SoundBlaster Live card though (Thief was one of the pack-ins in fact), so that definitely helped.

Yeah... Me too... But you're not saying it can't get better than that right? That any technical attempt at making games more immersive is futile?

Mr.Green wrote:
Gravey wrote:

I was immersed in Thief at 1152x864 on a 17" CRT with stereo headphones.

Edit: I had EAX 2.0 on a SoundBlaster Live card though (Thief was one of the pack-ins in fact), so that definitely helped.

Yeah... Me too... But you're not saying it can't get better than that right? That any technical attempt at making games more immersive is futile?

To be fair, I wasn't saying that either. I was simply saying that this wasn't the direction for *me*. If someone invents the Holodeck tomorrow I'm on board. But all of these helmets, glasses, multiple monitors, head tracking, etc. seem like such baby steps that I don't really personally know the difference between that and playing a JRPG on a GBA SP. I mean that I sincerely. I can't see myself getting anymore lost in a game with all that tech.

Fair enough. I was on the same page before Carmack started to hype the Oculus Rift. If all the previews are to be believed, this is no Virtualboy.

Don't worry if it's as mind blowing as they say you guys won't hear the end of it once I receive my dev kit this December.

If not I'll deny everything.

Holy sh*t!

Is that Julian?

PS4 devkits going out apparently: http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_...

AMD A10 APU (quad core, 7660), "8 or 16GB of RAM", 256GB HDD, Blu-ray, aiming to run 1080p60 3D

Whoa. So it's an x86 processor?

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

AnimeJ wrote:

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

I don't know much about the business side, but I'd have to imagine that long term plans for producing new hardware, along with Kaz Harai becoming the Prez, have more to do with PS4's time table than current woes.

AnimeJ wrote:

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

Insane to launch one, or perhaps insane not to? Fortunes change up and down, and unless the console market dries up completely within a year or two they really should have something to sell to people who want to buy it. How many years have we had various forum threads about next-gen in it's various forms or predictions "it's gotta be this year, right?".

I'm not running Sony, but not selling things doesn't really seem like the start of a good business direction, unless the plan is to shut up shop and go home.

Scratched wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

Insane to launch one, or perhaps insane not to? Fortunes change up and down, and unless the console market dries up completely within a year or two they really should have something to sell to people who want to buy it. How many years have we had various forum threads about next-gen in it's various forms or predictions "it's gotta be this year, right?".

I'm not running Sony, but not selling things doesn't really seem like the start of a good business direction, unless the plan is to shut up shop and go home.

But don't all sides, save nintendo, don't want to sell new consoles that often. They tend to lose money on them, especially early on. Nintendo is basically the only one that makes a consistent profit on consoles. I still think were another year or two from next gen at least. Not to mention I don't even want to imagine what this will due to game production costs...

Scratched wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

Insane to launch one, or perhaps insane not to? Fortunes change up and down, and unless the console market dries up completely within a year or two they really should have something to sell to people who want to buy it. How many years have we had various forum threads about next-gen in it's various forms or predictions "it's gotta be this year, right?".

I'm not running Sony, but not selling things doesn't really seem like the start of a good business direction, unless the plan is to shut up shop and go home.

Business wise, Sony is a mess. They're a moderately profitable insurance company that does everything else at a loss. So to me, they're insane for sinking that capital into a new console, rather than getting everything else sorted. Vita hasn't done them any favors that I'm aware of, and PS3 is a lot of what put the Playstation division into it's current mess. SOE isn't doing so hot either, and EQNext will likely be sink or swim for them as well IMO.

AnimeJ wrote:
Scratched wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Presumably. That said, I think Sony's insane to launch a new console given the state of the company, although with that type of hardware they could definitely launch cheaply and without all the problems that the PS3's cell processor gave them, alleviating that headache.

Insane to launch one, or perhaps insane not to? Fortunes change up and down, and unless the console market dries up completely within a year or two they really should have something to sell to people who want to buy it. How many years have we had various forum threads about next-gen in it's various forms or predictions "it's gotta be this year, right?".

I'm not running Sony, but not selling things doesn't really seem like the start of a good business direction, unless the plan is to shut up shop and go home.

Business wise, Sony is a mess. They're a moderately profitable insurance company that does everything else at a loss. So to me, they're insane for sinking that capital into a new console, rather than getting everything else sorted. Vita hasn't done them any favors that I'm aware of, and PS3 is a lot of what put the Playstation division into it's current mess. SOE isn't doing so hot either, and EQNext will likely be sink or swim for them as well IMO.

How do they get the PS3 (or Vita for that matter) out of the current mess? Starting clean from scratch sounds like a great idea to me.

Edit: Also we're just hearing rumors of dev kits now. This isn't coming out any time soon. My guess is holiday season 2014. No matter what Sony does it will require multi-tasking and working on PS3 and PS4 at the same time.

So instead of continuing to produce PS3s, which are doing better in the market and starting to turn a profit, they're going to dump money, which they don't have into a system which won't be to market for another year at least, which will cannabilze sales of the system making them money, because it probably won't? I don't know that that sounds like a good idea at all.

What's the longterm plan if they don't compete directly with Microsoft?